Feux follets isn't very tricky.

[Rob47]

That is at 80 to the eighth note

Seriously how does one develop the technique to play these double note passages at speed?  My teacher said I should work on feux follets just for the experience and to help develop that technique...(I want to play rach 23 - 9 one day).  Yet at the old age of 21 the stiffness is setting in and I think it's too late to develop that technique. What do you guys think?

your friend
Rob

[maxy]

It's Allegretto...   no need to take it Richter/Mei-Ting/Richard Raymond  speed.
Still, it is quite effective at insane speed... but not necessary.

[liszmaninopin]

How does one develop the technique?  Hard to say for you specifically, but in general, I would take it hands separately at first, at full tempo, perhaps only a measure at a time.  Once you're fully comfortable with the basic technique in one measure, it will be easier to learn other measures. 

[Rob47]

It's Allegretto...   no need to take it Richter/Mei-Ting/Richard Raymond  speed.
Still, it is quite effective at insane speed... but not necessary.

True Maxy, but despite it's Allegretto marking, Liszt himself indicates on the 2nd version (I'm working on the 1st version, simply marked 'egualmente') 120-126 to the eighth.  The melody is Allegretto but the RH is 32nd double notes trying to keep up with this allegretto melody. (That is some fast f***'in double notes!) Busoni play's it considerably slower than Mei Ting Sun.   Busoni!! The guy who destroys the end of Don Juan with inhuman speed! It makes you think.

your friend
Rob

[donjuan]

Busoni!! The guy who destroys the end of Don Juan with inhuman speed! It makes you think.

your friend
Rob

how do you know this?
donjuan

[Rob47]

how do you know this?
donjuan

I mean 'destroys' in a good way.

I know this from the CD "Ferrucio Busoni plays Liszt"

your friend
Rob

[super_ardua]

I'm facing this problem also.

What I'm doing is I'm taking it 4 notes at a time,  and trying to get them up to the highest speed possible.  Awfully time consuming though (trying to deal with so many notes).  Practicing slowly seems to do not a lot of help.

PS. What do you use on the chromatic thing on the way down? 4321 all the way? I do that and I find it a bit on the clumsy side...what alternative fingerings are there?

PPS.  You aren't getting stiff.  It's practice.  I'm 18 and at first, the simple double notes were causing awful stiffness and tension,  I spent circa. 5hrs in school tapping them out on my knee in class and the stiffness went away.

[DarkWind]

how do you know this?
donjuan

I mean 'destroys' in a good way.

I know this from the CD "Ferrucio Busoni plays Liszt"

your friend
Rob

Mind posting a few mp3s, please?


Also, Feux Follets is still quite tricky even when played slow.

[chromatickler]

Is Busoni faster than Lisitsa in the DJ?!

[super_ardua]

Actually my approach does work. 

Needed to practice snaller segments than that! (2 notes at at time) then enlarge segments a note at a time (2 notes-> 3 notes -> 4  notes -> 5 notes) until I hit a problem.  Cycle this eg.  Cycle the six notes segment about 5-10 times until it sticks (or you get bored which means you've made the maximum progress possible). 

If it doesn't work,  practice at speed slightly slower,  see if you get all the notes.  If yes cycle approx. 7 times at this speed.  If no cycle at a slightly slower speed.

If this doesn't work,  do this at a speed you feel extremely comfortable e.g. not to fast or slow.

Still time consuming,  but it works,  I can get to 135+ = eight note,  which is getting to my target speed of HS of circa.180 BPM (150% of HT speed)

Still thats a small segment of 5 bars of the sixths out of a couple of pages after 3 slots of 20mins.

[Rob47]

Is Busoni faster than Lisitsa in the DJ?!

I've never heard Lisitsa's recording...in fact Ive never heard of Lisitsa....is she Valentina Lisitsa who's webpage im looking at right now? She's hot.  Anyway oh there's a video of her playing don juan hold on I'll tell you after i hear it.

Wow that girl has crazy techniqe! But what's the rush? She starts speeding at var. I all the way till the end kind of takes away alot of the character....but still wow!  HOWEVER, no Busoni's presto is considerably faster....believe it or not. THe last time he plays the presto melody before the closing section is not possible by anyone....i think its a piano roll conspiracy.

Anyway thank's for intruducing me to this performer Valentina Lisitsa.

how do you know this?
donjuan

I mean 'destroys' in a good way.

I know this from the CD "Ferrucio Busoni plays Liszt"

your friend
Rob

Mind posting a few mp3s, please?


Also, Feux Follets is still quite tricky even when played slow.

When I get my computer back I'll try! If you can't wait the cd is Busoni Play's LIszt

Actually my approach does work.

Needed to practice snaller segments than that! (2 notes at at time) then enlarge segments a note at a time (2 notes-> 3 notes -> 4 notes -> 5 notes) until I hit a problem. Cycle this eg. Cycle the six notes segment about 5-10 times until it sticks (or you get bored which means you've made the maximum progress possible).

If it doesn't work, practice at speed slightly slower, see if you get all the notes. If yes cycle approx. 7 times at this speed. If no cycle at a slightly slower speed.

If this doesn't work, do this at a speed you feel extremely comfortable e.g. not to fast or slow.

Still time consuming, but it works, I can get to 135+ = eight note, which is getting to my target speed of HS of circa.180 BPM (150% of HT speed)

Still thats a small segment of 5 bars of the sixths out of a couple of pages after 3 slots of 20mins.

Nice! 135 is fast enough!!! You want to play it at 180?!?! To the eighth?!?!?! Are you Busoni? Actually Busoni plays it slower than Mei Ting.  Is it possible at 180...to the eighth?

wow. good luck.  Personally I'd be elated at 135 to the eighth!

your friend
Rob

[Rob47]

Actually it seems mei ting plays it about 180-200. so I guess it is possible...inhumanly possible.

[allchopin]

I've never heard Lisitsa's recording...in fact Ive never heard of Lisitsa....is she Valentina Lisitsa who's webpage im looking at right now?

Anyway thank's for intruducing me to this performer Valentina Lisitsa.

This is honestly probably the best playing I have ever heard.  It makes one ponder life.  Yes, thank you for the reference.

[super_ardua]

Nice! 135 is fast enough!!! You want to play it at 180?!?! To the eighth?!?!?! Are you Busoni? Actually Busoni plays it slower than Mei Ting.  Is it possible at 180...to the eighth?

wow. good luck.  Personally I'd be elated at 135 to the eighth!

your friend
Rob

It isn't fast enough.  Try it HT - it will fall apart.  There are largeish jumps on the LH.

[chromatickler]

I've never heard Lisitsa's recording...in fact Ive never heard of Lisitsa....is she Valentina Lisitsa who's webpage im looking at right now?

Anyway thank's for intruducing me to this performer Valentina Lisitsa.

This is honestly probably the best playing I have ever heard.  It makes one ponder life.  Yes, thank you for the reference.

Well, she is an SDC legend on par with the likes of Ziff & Gav.