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Topic: Practise: what do you expect of students?  (Read 2669 times)

Offline katefarquharson

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Practise: what do you expect of students?
on: December 14, 2012, 12:06:02 PM
Hello!

I have gone back to lessons (I'm 18) after a 1 1/2 year break. A lot has gone on and changed in the past 2 years so I'm not really the same as I was before when I was a Junior student at trinity. I was rather talented at sidestepping! Somehow I hardly had to practise during the week to impress my teacher, I somehow just managed to waltz into the room, sit down and play something 100 times better than the last lesson... strange...

But that's obviously not a good thing because I wasn't really improving as much as I could have been if I had worked hard. So now I am practising everyday, trying very hard to fix all of the bad habits I have picked up from not having lessons. I am applying to the conservatoire where I have my lessons, to do a major in music so it is kind of crunch time. He has said that I need to sort this all out or I won't get in (he is a senior lecturer who is a part of the audition process)

My Teacher is a little fed up with me, I tend to make the same mistakes every week (despite working on them at home!) with pretty much every piece I do, the same patterns coming up all the time (not knowing what fingering I'm using, articulation, pedalling etc.)

So he has said I really need to improve my practise quality over the long holiday. I've figured out all the different things I need to work on, on paper it looks simple but I think putting it into action will be difficult. I really need to start being able to finish pieces, nicely polished and performance ready because I think it's about time I start doing performances (shock horror!) and competitions.

So .... What do you expect from your students each week? Do you ask to see certain pieces or do you ask them to present whatever they've prepared? What do you suggest to them to do each time they practise?

I have a scale practise routine where I work on 4 keys a day so that in a week I can get through all 12 keys twice, doing all of the scales , major, minors, double thirds, contrary motion etc and the arpeggios in all inversions, dominant and diminshed 7ths etc. Which for me is A LOT!!! But it is really necessary because my technique has kind of gone to the pits....

Long post, but feedback would be super appreciated!!!

Offline the89thkey

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 03:05:24 AM
It is good that you practice all that technique. I like my intermediate students to do 10 minutes of warmups every day.
As for the question, I assign pieces and expect them to improve each week, taking into account amount of practice time and skill level. If your teacher wants you to just prepare something, then do that. If you message me telling me about your skill level and how much you practice and in what way, I can help you by recommending repertoire, answering your questions, and giving you fingerings from time to time.

Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 03:53:09 AM
I wonder how often students are actually taught how to practice.   Like, you start off with your little pieces and scales and things, you "learn" the piece during the week, play it in the next lesson.  Your teacher corrects it, assigns a new piece.  You go home, do the corrections, and "learn" the next piece, and so on.  Here are some things I've learned about practicing, just to scratch the surface:

- How do you approach a piece?  Do you start at the beginning and go to the end?  Do you chunk it, working on a small section, another small section?
- I learned something called "layering".  You still work in small sections, but you work on different aspects - maybe the right notes with good fingering and body motion, maybe timing and refining it, maybe dynamics and expression.
- If a piece is brought together in stages, how do you plan your practising over the week, day by day
- If you have a technical problem, how do you solve it?

If you are "working on" a scale, or a piece, or part of a piece, that is still on the surface.  What aspect of the scale are you working on, and how do you approach it?

If you have not been taught how to practice in that sense, does your present teacher know how to tell you how to practice?  In this sense.  This may be the angle you need to find.

Offline katefarquharson

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 10:21:49 AM
We do talk about practising, and in lesson when I am struggling with something he will ask me how I am going to practise it and then we'll talk about it. So I do get the idea of what I am meant to be doing, I just feel a little bit anxious about it all, perhaps I should stop overanalysing it and just leave that for my practise sessions!

I can tell him that I'm getting confused and stuff, and feeling anxious, he'll understand because he knows I have "issues" and said he does too!.. But I'm starting to feel like every time I say that I don't know how to do this or I didn't know how to do that, I got confused at home or I didn't know what to do, that it all sounds like excuses for not practising or something.

Anyway, I should just get to it and start trying!!!

I am doing Haydns sonata in F major, haven't got to the 3rd movement yet though. I'm working on the first one at the moment and I have a pretty clear idea of how to practise it and sort all the problems I have (minus the left hand trill which still drives me insane!)

I'm doing the 3rd piece from in the mists by Janacek. I know I must practise slowly, very very very slowly! What confuses me a little about practising more modern music like janacek is the way that it is difficult to practise hands separately as the 2 lines overlap a lot.

I am actually struggling most with Bachs 2-part inventions (13 + 14) !! I somehow got to this stage without having played any Bach before, so it is all completely new to me! no. 13 is actually fine now, it's 14 (B flat major) that is bugging me as it is completely naked at the moment. I find it difficult to decide on what articulation and phrasing I'm going to use or which line I'm going to bring out where etc.

How do I decide? It's the same with fingerings, I try all different ones then can't decide...

I think I should just take a chill pill ahha

and thanks for your help  :)

Offline outin

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 10:48:12 AM
I can tell him that I'm getting confused and stuff, and feeling anxious, he'll understand because he knows I have "issues" and said he does too!.. But I'm starting to feel like every time I say that I don't know how to do this or I didn't know how to do that, I got confused at home or I didn't know what to do, that it all sounds like excuses for not practising or something.

I am not nearly as advanced as you are, but I have this same problem. It does sound like excuses and I sometimes feel like a 5 year old complaining. But in the end I just don't have the ability to concentrate enough on someone else teaching me. I am slowly getting used to it: I don't get something my teacher is trying to show me because I cannot relate to someone elses body movements or concentrate on someone trying to explain things to me. I often say to my teacher that I don't get it or cannot do this and it's useless to even try. I think she has realized that it's better just to move on, because when I go home and I am left alone with the issue I usually do get it. But it does require concentrated practice and I have noticed that if possible it's best to do it soon after the lesson. I guess I am stubborn, because sometimes I sit for 2 hours just working on a little thing until I get it. I feel like giving up occasionally but just keep going. The fact that there are so many (infinitely?) of these little things to get sometimes gets a bit overwhelming though...

Offline p2u_

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 11:07:43 AM
So .... What do you expect from your students each week? Do you ask to see certain pieces or do you ask them to present whatever they've prepared? What do you suggest to them to do each time they practise?

I generally find listening to certain pieces (checking whether they have worked or not) during the lesson merely a waste of time. Usually, we practise during the lesson as if the piece were new, because what they have to do is often not something you can just solve or acquire between lessons anyway. My students know this, so the atmosphere is always relaxed, even if due to some unforeseen circumstances they have indeed not been able to practise much. They suggest what to work on and we do that together.
P.S.: Most of my students are very advanced and don't need any guidance on interpretation etc.

Paul
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 03:42:51 PM
We do talk about practising, and in lesson when I am struggling with something he will ask me how I am going to practise it and then we'll talk about it. So I do get the idea of what I am meant to be doing, I just feel a little bit anxious about it all, perhaps I should stop overanalysing it and just leave that for my practise sessions!
I'd like to pursue this some more because it seems important.  When you answer how you are practising, what kinds of things do you tell him, and how does he respond?  When you say that you get an idea of what you are meant to be doing, what kinds of things are those?  Would you be able to tell right now how you need to practise - say this week - maybe taking a particular piece OR (and/or is even better) a particular problem?

Quote
I can tell him that I'm getting confused and stuff, and feeling anxious, he'll understand because he knows I have "issues" and said he does too!.. But I'm starting to feel like every time I say that I don't know how to do this or I didn't know how to do that, I got confused at home or I didn't know what to do, that it all sounds like excuses for not practising or something.
If you don't know how to do something and you are confused, that is not having an "issue".   It is missing a skill that you weren't given.  If you were a "natural" and easier music just came to you at the earlier level, then you simply didn't get that part of it.

Offline quantum

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 06:45:46 PM
My Teacher is a little fed up with me, I tend to make the same mistakes every week (despite working on them at home!) with pretty much every piece I do, the same patterns coming up all the time (not knowing what fingering I'm using, articulation, pedalling etc.)

So he has said I really need to improve my practise quality over the long holiday. I've figured out all the different things I need to work on, on paper it looks simple but I think putting it into action will be difficult. I really need to start being able to finish pieces, nicely polished and performance ready because I think it's about time I start doing performances (shock horror!) and competitions.

There is a cognitive connection that a student needs to bridge between the lessons a teacher gives and being able to execute them.  Work more on thinking about the lessons from your teacher and achieving a personal understanding of the concept.  It is not enough to just do or play "as you are told."  If you do, you will not understand the meaning of what you are doing, when you should be doing it, and why it works.  A teacher can assist by further elaboration, but the onus of bridging the gap to understanding falls on the student and not the teacher.  There is an element of cognitive contemplation that can only be done by the student in order to reach that personal level of knowledge: the "ah hah" moment.


So .... What do you expect from your students each week? Do you ask to see certain pieces or do you ask them to present whatever they've prepared? What do you suggest to them to do each time they practise?

For students in the beginner levels, I would give guidance as what they could prepare for the next lesson.  However, for advanced students I let them choose whatever they wish to bring to lesson.  With other commitments it gets more challenging to juggle activities with practicing.  I let the students decide what kind of work they can accomplish in a given week.  However, I never nag about lack of practice, never!  If a student wants to study in my studio there is a mutual understanding that they will be self-motivated to do work on their own.  If they want to keep paying for lessons and not practice, I'm not going to complain. 


IMO, students need to be taught how to practice.  There is a difference between teaching a lesson, and a student practicing that lesson.  It is not enough for a teacher to just hand over a package of information and say: here student, learn this and come back next week.  The teacher needs to show the student how to digest the concepts when the student is working alone.  The goal is to make the student an independent thinker and learner, and not to have the student run to the teacher every time he/she doesn't understand something. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 08:58:28 PM
There is a cognitive connection that a student needs to bridge between the lessons a teacher gives and being able to execute them.  Work more on thinking about the lessons from your teacher and achieving a personal understanding of the concept.  It is not enough to just do or play "as you are told."  If you do, you will not understand the meaning of what you are doing, when you should be doing it, and why it works.  A teacher can assist by further elaboration, but the onus of bridging the gap to understanding falls on the student and not the teacher.  There is an element of cognitive contemplation that can only be done by the student in order to reach that personal level of knowledge: the "ah hah" moment...........

IMO, students need to be taught how to practice.  There is a difference between teaching a lesson, and a student practicing that lesson.  It is not enough for a teacher to just hand over a package of information and say: here student, learn this and come back next week.  The teacher needs to show the student how to digest the concepts when the student is working alone.  The goal is to make the student an independent thinker and learner, and not to have the student run to the teacher every time he/she doesn't understand something. 

I want to connect these two things.  It is possible for a student to never be taught how to practice, how to approach pieces, how to approach problems, and then get to an advanced level still without that knowledge.  That is especially so if the student has a good instinct for music and can dash off earlier pieces.  The goal in earlier grades can become taking a piece home, and playing the right notes in the right time to sound "decent enough". The goals should be gaining skills that will be used in more advanced pieces.

Yes, it is up to a student at a more advanced level to work on the information given, but first the tools have to be there so that the student can apply those tools.  It is NOT up to the student to struggle with these things, end up feeling scatterbrained, stupid, inept.  If tools are missing, then they need to be given.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 09:07:26 PM
So he has said I really need to improve my practise quality over the long holiday.

I think the word you need to focus on here is "quality".

Just upping the quantity will not likely improve the results. It may even make them worse; well practiced, ingrained mistakes.

I'd recommend you have a discussion with your teacher about ways to go about practice so you make better use of your time.

In a nutshell, though, it's about figuring out why you are making the mistakes you do, and finding solutions to the underlying issue.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 10:45:11 PM
I generally find listening to certain pieces (checking whether they have worked or not) during the lesson merely a waste of time. Usually, we practise during the lesson as if the piece were new, because what they have to do is often not something you can just solve or acquire between lessons anyway. .........
P.S.: Most of my students are very advanced and don't need any guidance on interpretation etc.

Paul
Paul, do you do any listening at all (but not for checking whether they have worked)?  Like, a student has practised at home for a week, comes to lessons and ..... do you hear any of it?  There is the lesson - practising - the next lesson.  What is the link between them, if any?

It seems to me that one of the most important things to learn is how to practice, how to approach a piece, how to work on things, solve problems.  Ideally this should start right at the beginning so that these are tools which are in place at the advanced level.  But what if that doesn't happen?  Practising is super important.  If you practice only 2 hours a day, then for every 1 hour lesson, you have put in 14 hours that week.  Which will have a greater impact?

What if a student gets to an advanced level and never learned this side of it?   What if "practicing" at the lower grades consisted of playing through the piece from start to finish, dashing it off (if you have a generally good musical sense), it's called "good enough" and on to the next piece done in the same manner?  I think this does happen.  What about the practice side?

Offline p2u_

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 06:36:47 PM
Paul, do you do any listening at all (but not for checking whether they have worked)?  Like, a student has practised at home for a week, comes to lessons and ..... do you hear any of it?  There is the lesson - practising - the next lesson.  What is the link between them, if any?

What I do is coaching, actually, not teaching. They come to me for a reason; usually to get ready for something their own teachers have planned for them but don't give guidance on. My task is to help them in a way that doesn't interfere with anything their teachers want from them. Their teacher may say: "You play so badly because you don't listen to yourself", which may very well be ignoring the real underlying problem. In such cases, I have them practise on a silent keyboard, an approach that never fails. At other times, they may find a piece "really difficult" and after we have looked at it together, it turns out that difficult pieces do not exist. Others may have developed severe performance anxiety (stage fright), which also requires a certain approach, etc.

At their own initiative, they are free to PLAY for me if they want to and I'll listen gratefully, of course. The very first lesson, I just ask them to play a little something. This is necessary to feel how they move, to feel where they block, how they block, how they plan, how they time, etc. Next time, they don't have to be afraid that I will check whether they have worked or not. If they want, they play. If they're not ready to play, we'll PRACTISE. Often, they'll say right away where they had difficulties. At other times, I will ask them how they coped on their own with stuff we worked on together last time. Some even have the freedom to organize a philosophical get-together, which is also OK with me.

Although it seems that we just practise all the time, I do have an individual plan for development per each student and I make notes, draw diagrams with statistics, etc.

Paul
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #12 on: December 16, 2012, 06:57:34 PM
Paul, what about the practice element of it?  So you have coached, diagnosed, found solutions and so on.  What is it that the student does once he or she gets home for the next seven days and possibly the weeks afterward.  What does the student do for the hour or two hours of the practicing session?

Offline p2u_

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 07:20:22 PM
What is it that the student does once he or she gets home for the next seven days and possibly the weeks afterward.
Prolong the pleasure, strengthen the awareness, etc. experienced during the lesson (everything is recorded, of course). Possibly also try new strategies on other pieces that used to present obstacles, etc.

What does the student do for the hour or two hours of the practicing session?
1) Open his/her senses to elementary things they had been blind to or had forgotten.
2) Create and maintain different kinds of awareness.

This is too vague, I know, but it ranges from problems like "Are you sure you want to ride off with the handbrakes on?" to the finer points of key repetition (some students have only an upright piano at home and certain tricks that are possible on a concert grand cannot really be accomplished on an upright) etc. They still try to get to the standard the teacher requires in terms of speed, and... ruin their playing mechanism, etc. Time to retrain and actually learn something...

Paul
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 08:19:58 PM
I'm getting a better picture, Paul.  Thank you.   :)

I'll be more complete about the various places I'm coming from as well.

- I am a trained teacher who opted out of the school system, and I have tutored one-on-one on occasion.  I had one regular tutoring session where I actually taught systematically for 1 1/2 years.  Usually when I tutored, there was a student in trouble needing help with a specific thing like math or grades in English.  But when I worked with the kid, almost always there was something else.  I think that you work with these "something elses" just like I did.  Examples: student with algebra problems who didn't relate it to anything real, was making more complex calculations in real life, and had not grasped the concept behind addition and subtraction.  Student trying to please the teacher with expected answers, turning off "thinking".  Or the grade 8 boy reading at a grade 1 level whose real problem was timing: thinking he had to read a complex sentence in one shot - he went to grade level in a few months.  So like you, I went after the real issue under the apparent issue.  And I also knew I was throwing the kid right back into the situation that had caused the problem in the first place - the classroom.  My hope was that the student would be armed with a better and broader vision.  You almost need duplicity to survive: do what is expected to get the grades, and also learn.

- totally different scenario.  I paired up in correspondence with a viola student in Europe whose teacher was problematic.  One summer she worked with a teacher who did your kind of coaching.  He only took older students in the summer (she was about 18).  He cut down her million assignments to only three or four so that she could concentrate, and gave her a few essential starters on technique.  It brought her further than a year's lessons.  The most amazing thing however was the "air viola".  He played a recording of one of her pieces and had her play a pretend instrument in the air with her eyes closed.  When she was done he told her that her imaginary viola was larger than her real one.  In fact her regular teacher had constantly talked about how "large", "difficult to hold", "heavy" the viola was, and my friend had internalized this.  That one thing alone turned it around for my friend.

Sequel: That teacher wouldn't take her for the fall.  She returned to the regular teacher who was as scattered as ever, the million assignments were back, the "large, heavy, difficult to hold" was back.  She quit lessons and quit the instrument.   :(

- Last scenario is myself as a student.  After several years of lessons as an adult on another instrument, I discovered there was a way of approaching pieces, applying technique, learning technique, and melding the part that is music and inspiration with the part that is deliberate along these first lines.  This includes having some kind of system or goal setting to your practice.  I'm working with a piano teacher along these lines - it gets tweaked as I grow, and according to where I am.  I outlined a fair bit of it in the student forum under the same title.

Offline p2u_

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 04:40:39 AM
Usually when I tutored, there was a student in trouble needing help with a specific thing like math or grades in English.  But when I worked with the kid, almost always there was something else.  I think that you work with these "something elses" just like I did.

Exactly right. What you see on the surface in people with problems is often an indication for something else. The real solutions may be very unexpected sometimes.

P.S.: By the way, if we limit this to music and piano playing, did you know that aural feedback can actually hold you back in some cases because it creates a negative loop? If you take on something like Rachmaninov's concerto no.3, for example, it can be so overwhelming in places that passages that would otherwise work don't work, and it can be very difficult for musical and emotional people to hold back and do what's required: first ingrain the piece like a bean counter, and only then let it all go. People who don't realize this may get into very deep trouble and blame either poor Rachmaninov or the concerto for being so "difficult". Things get even worse when the teacher asks them to "listen more"...

Paul
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 04:19:22 PM
Paul, what you write in your last paragraph holds a lot of meaning for me.  Not in terms of listening, but something similar.  I had a lifetime without lessons but had played any instrument I could get my hands on.  Had a piano for a while as a teen and when it went, transferred the music onto guitar.  Then went 3 decades without a piano.   At close to 50 I had my first ever lessons on violin as a new instrument.  I progressed very fast, did well, and then everything crashed after a year.  A poor instrument causing injury was only one factor.  I started to look for answers and interacting with teachers/musicians.  One told me that I had a bad combination - instant grasp of music things plus no training - very hard to teach.  Two others said similar.  The solution for me goes to your "beancounting".  That is, I needed to slow down, and learn very basic rudimentary things even if I seemed to be past that. 

I did not listen to music in order to play it. I heard things from the notation, and I anticipated what the composer would be doing.  It was instinct, things absorbed passively over the years, a broad "whole".  We didn't know that I wasn't reading music but tracing broad patterns, hearing a line of notes as a scale, and predicting call-answer patterns etc.  Near the end of lessons I realized that the answer lay in basic things.  The simple act of seeing A and associating that as a place on the keyboard or string, which everyone does, was huge.

I didn't get "listen more" but was urged to play with feeling.  When I got the piano I ran across a teacher here and there on-line who stressed spontaneity, since they get the mechanical playing.  I was being deliberately mechanical, feeling this was the part I was missing.  I feared I would get a teacher who would say "but you have it already" if I sought basics, and I'd be on the same merry-go-round.  I know that the mechanical and feeling inter-relate and are woven into each other.  Someone who is too mechanical may want to draw on feeling, and feeling will propel the body so to say.  It's all about balance.  However, if you sense a lot of things in the music and you feel them all, and want to express that without having the knowledge of how to, it can turn into a jumble of impulses: you go into knots, or it becomes something crude.

I got a piano again, and have been working with a teacher who is on top of it (to my immense relief).  Very often I have to work on the simplest thing, like how to move effectively to play a note or a chord, which is also the usual matter of undoing self-teaching.  Like, what I need is also good for everyone.  Our approach to music essentially is to start in a bean counting manner, turn it into music via the beans, and then remove the scaffolding.  Again the principle is probably for everyone because music is also crafted, put together.  What the listener hears as a cohesive impression is created in various ways through knowledge of how the instrument and sound work.  It takes away some of the magic, but it's magical in its own right.

Offline the89thkey

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 11:01:50 PM
Exactly right. What you see on the surface in people with problems is often an indication for something else. The real solutions may be very unexpected sometimes.

P.S.: By the way, if we limit this to music and piano playing, did you know that aural feedback can actually hold you back in some cases because it creates a negative loop? If you take on something like Rachmaninov's concerto no.3, for example, it can be so overwhelming in places that passages that would otherwise work don't work, and it can be very difficult for musical and emotional people to hold back and do what's required: first ingrain the piece like a bean counter, and only then let it all go. People who don't realize this may get into very deep trouble and blame either poor Rachmaninov or the concerto for being so "difficult". Things get even worse when the teacher asks them to "listen more"...

Paul
Agreed. I hate people who blame composers for writing hard pieces. If you are annoyed at somebody for writing a piece you can't play, guess what: They didn't write it for you! Don't try to play it!

Offline the89thkey

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #18 on: December 17, 2012, 11:03:47 PM
Exactly right. What you see on the surface in people with problems is often an indication for something else. The real solutions may be very unexpected sometimes.

P.S.: By the way, if we limit this to music and piano playing, did you know that aural feedback can actually hold you back in some cases because it creates a negative loop? If you take on something like Rachmaninov's concerto no.3, for example, it can be so overwhelming in places that passages that would otherwise work don't work, and it can be very difficult for musical and emotional people to hold back and do what's required: first ingrain the piece like a bean counter, and only then let it all go. People who don't realize this may get into very deep trouble and blame either poor Rachmaninov or the concerto for being so "difficult". Things get even worse when the teacher asks them to "listen more"...

Paul
Totally agree with this. When I learned Rach 3 I made sure I was technically ready for the piece first. Then I started practicing like mad and learned it in a week... (do not tell me "So-and-so learned it in only 5 days" because I don't need to hear who learned it faster...:))
I have never allowed any of my students to play repertoire that they can't play well. Of course, if they are so below the level of the piece that they can't even learn the technique, I let them see for themselves. ;)
On the other hand, I let them pick their own repertoire as long as I approve it first. If they want to play a piece that is within their limits, by all means I help them learn it. :)

Offline danhuyle

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #19 on: December 18, 2012, 01:06:18 AM
Come to lessons prepared and not struggle with note learning.
Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline the89thkey

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #20 on: December 18, 2012, 02:19:34 AM
Come to lessons prepared and not struggle with note learning.
How strong are your students?

Offline p2u_

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #21 on: December 18, 2012, 02:48:16 AM
Come to lessons prepared and not struggle with note learning.

Students themselves know this all too well, but the work load in certain institutions is just too big to be ready next time. This is actually one of the reasons some students tend to develop in the wrong direction. If, heaven forbid, the teacher adds "Why are you not ready? You should work harder!", then the cycle is complete and we have yet another patient with a professional disease...

Paul
Account discontinued.
No more pearls before swine...

Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #22 on: December 18, 2012, 06:53:10 AM
Come to lessons prepared and not struggle with note learning.
There's more to it than that.   You seem to be talking about the immature student who doesn't practice and arrives unprepared.

Offline the89thkey

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #23 on: December 18, 2012, 08:07:40 PM
There's more to it than that.   You seem to be talking about the immature student who doesn't practice and arrives unprepared.
More students are immature than you might think...

Offline keypeg

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 01:40:41 AM
More students are immature than you might think...
The person asking the question does not give an immature impression, and definitely not the impression of someone who does not practice.  The OP talks about practising every day, trying to break poor habits, trying to address problems which seem to not go away.  The writer is also asking about how to practice well, or what good practice expectations might be.  Does any of this sound like it is written by an immature student who is not practising between lessons?

Reading the history, I have the impression of someone who came to music naturally and so was not guided in practice habits or how to approach music.  You come back at a higher grade with a new teacher who assumes these things are there.  Maybe they're not and leaned to be learned.  How to practice is a powerful thing.

You wrote that you only teach part time, and only take "talented" students who are more advanced.  What happens if a student isn't taught properly or is mistaught?  When you assess a student, how much of what you see comes from natural ability, and how much from a good grounding?  And can ability be masked by poor foundations or misteaching?

Offline the89thkey

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Re: Practise: what do you expect of students?
Reply #25 on: December 19, 2012, 02:10:29 AM
You wrote that you only teach part time, and only take "talented" students who are more advanced.  What happens if a student isn't taught properly or is mistaught?  When you assess a student, how much of what you see comes from natural ability, and how much from a good grounding?  And can ability be masked by poor foundations or misteaching?
I will address your points in order.
Yes, I only teach part time.
Yes, I rarely take beginners.
If a student is mistaught and they have a lot of talent, I consider retraining them.
Mostly natural ability, I can normally see through previous bad teacher's effects...
Yes, but it is always possible to relearn how to practice, or even how to play. But you can't acquire talent. ;)
Hope I answered your question...:)
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