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Bach 2-part invention #1 (Read 4157 times)

Offline fingerknot

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Bach 2-part invention #1
« on: October 19, 2004, 11:58:53 AM »
Hi. I have set myself out to learn the inventions. I got almost five of them going fairly well. My problem is that I have discovered that my edition differs from others concerning ornaments and fingering, so I need to find out what's corrcect. Are the versions found at http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net correct? In the edition I've got (wich by the way claims to be urtext), the ornaments in #1 are:

bar 1: B4 trillo
bar 2: F5 trillo
bar 5: C5 mordent
bar 6: B4 trillo
bar 8: F#4 trillo
bar 13: D4 trillo
bar 14: C5 trillo

The fingering differs to and there is one passage where I have a little problem to get it sound smooth, which clearly can be heard when using harpsichord sound. It's the left hand in bar 11. The indicated fingering is 3123 4231 2123 4234 and at beat 3 the thumb has to play Bb and then go to A. Should I change fingering or is it just a matter of more practice?
The version found at the link above is good because the ornaments are written out. I usually guess if I should start the trillos on the upper key, but then I risk being busted by the Bachpolice ;D.

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #1 on: October 19, 2004, 12:52:42 PM »
There have been several threads along those lines in recent days...

I would strongly recommend getting the Palmer editions. They are well edited and contain a wealth of information on how to play pretty much all of Bach's ornaments as well as on general performance practices for Baroque music. This is the way to go if you want a quick, well-respected and inexpensive introduction into Bach's keyboard music.

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #2 on: October 19, 2004, 05:11:51 PM »
I agree Palmer editions are the best.

Offline djbrak

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #3 on: October 22, 2004, 07:42:54 PM »
on Bar 11 left hand you can try 1 on Db instead of 2.
"If music be the food of love...sing on sing on!"

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #4 on: October 22, 2004, 09:27:14 PM »
not in the style of Bach no. thumbs do not play black keys unless you are playing octaves.

Offline pianodude

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #5 on: October 22, 2004, 10:16:52 PM »
To play smoothly for all those trill is actually not the finger number, but your ability to keep your hand very very relax. Especially, when you are playing at the real time, the trills in this piece can be very difficult for people who do not have good technics. However, among all Bach Inventions, this is one of the easiest.

Just make sure your wrist very relax before executing those trills..


Good Luck... 8)

Offline fingerknot

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #6 on: October 22, 2004, 10:43:42 PM »
Thank y'all for the advices. I guess that there are lots of different thechnical challenges in these pieces and that's what makes them excellent student material. Back to practice...

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #7 on: October 22, 2004, 11:54:08 PM »
also remember no pedal and keep it crisp. don't muddy it up. Though you will play legato every note is distinct.

have fun with this piece. my fiance is working on it also.

boliver

Offline djbrak

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #8 on: October 23, 2004, 06:56:05 AM »
not in the style of Bach no. thumbs do not play black keys unless you are playing octaves.
Are you telling me that if you heard a recording of a Bach Invention, you would be able to tell if the pianist used a thumb on a black key?
"If music be the food of love...sing on sing on!"

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #9 on: October 23, 2004, 02:47:15 PM »
no, I am not saying that. But the pieces were composed with that rule in mind. Therefore the easiest fingering can be achieved without thumb on black key.

Offline fingerknot

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #10 on: October 24, 2004, 09:05:17 PM »
no, I am not saying that. But the pieces were composed with that rule in mind. Therefore the easiest fingering can be achieved without thumb on black key.

Is it not a bit strange that they wanted to avoid using the thumb when they mostly played on instruments (harpsichord, organ) that didn't have "touch sensitive" dynamics? Is it known why this rule of thumb? ;D

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #11 on: October 24, 2004, 09:17:46 PM »
the technique of the time didn't have curled fingers. Therefore the thumb was real short and had to move quite a long distance to hit a black key.

Offline Cecin_Koot

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Re: Bach 2-part invention #1
«Reply #12 on: October 25, 2004, 08:42:37 AM »
i played that piece last year.  Bach 2 part inventions no#1
now i am playing, i think it is six.