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Editing piano concerto recordings (Read 1878 times)

Offline perprocrastinate

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Editing piano concerto recordings
« on: December 26, 2012, 03:54:49 PM »
Does anyone know how to edit the piano out of the recording, or make it quieter?

It would be much easier to just buy the Music Minus One recording of the concerto, but in the case where it's not available, I can't see any other alternative. Well, besides performing with an actual orchestra, there aren't any other alternatives.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 11:55:52 PM »
I suppose one option is to record yourself playing the piano reduction of the orchestral part. Never tried it myself, so not sure how well it would work.
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Offline iansinclair

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 12:19:11 AM »
It's almost impossible.  In fact, without very sophisticated computer software, I would go so far as to say it is impossible.  A recording, after all, is a record of the sound which is present in the space -- and pays no attention at all to what was making the sound.

If you had access to an original multi-track master, which had the piano on one track in its own space and the rest of the band on other tracks in their own spaces... such things happen with popular music (it's not uncommon for different bits of the band, never mind the vocals, to be recorded each in its own space -- sometimes in places miles apart on different days) but not, I think most classical music.
Ian

Offline quantum

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 03:37:14 AM »
As Ian suggested above, unless you have the master tracks it would be extremely difficult.  Perhaps sometime in the future when the technology has evolved.  The commercial copy available to the public is essentially a "flat file" - all tracks mixed into stereo. 

You could get a friend to learn the reduction and rehearse it with him/her. 

If you are good with digital music you could record the orchestral parts yourself using samples and virtual instruments. 

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Offline Bob

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #4 on: December 28, 2012, 03:49:14 AM »
Make your own track of the orchestral piano reduction.  Learn that side of it that way.  Even if it's just a single line, it's still useful.


I've heard you can take... It's been awhile.... It's something like taking the track, splitting the stereo.... Then invert or flip that around, rejoin the stereo...  The result being the stuff that was front and center is now on the outside of the sound space.  Reduce that volume on the edges... And there's not much left of the soloist.  Although I think it's still there faintly and it doesn't work with echoes and reverb.
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Offline richard black

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #5 on: December 28, 2012, 10:46:51 PM »
Speaking as someone who edits and doctors recordings for part of his living, I can tell you that removing the piano solo from a normally-made recording is simply impossible. With a lot of work you can often reduce its level, but even with the original multi-track master (assuming the recording was made that way) you won't be able to remove it completely.

Yes, record the orchestral reduction yourself (or get a friend to do it), it's probably the only practical way.
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline schumaniac

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 01:32:42 AM »
I suppose one option is to record yourself playing the piano reduction of the orchestral part. Never tried it myself, so not sure how well it would work.
I have, but it doesn't really work unless you play the part to a metronome xP

Offline the89thkey

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 05:01:24 AM »


You could get a friend to learn the reduction and rehearse it with him/her. 




to me this seems like the only logical way to proceed. Recording the part yourself or playing along with Music Minus One simply doesn't work...I have tried it with Rach 2 and one or two Mozarts and you just can't keep in time with a recording. There has to be someone actually there to vary the pace and keep in time with you rather than you keeping in time with it.

Offline zezhyrule

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #8 on: January 05, 2013, 05:08:28 AM »
to me this seems like the only logical way to proceed. Recording the part yourself or playing along with Music Minus One simply doesn't work...I have tried it with Rach 2 and one or two Mozarts and you just can't keep in time with a recording. There has to be someone actually there to vary the pace and keep in time with you rather than you keeping in time with it.

Surely someone of your stature has lots of orchestras at your disposal whenever you feel like practicing a concerto?
Currently learning -

- Bach: P&F in F Minor (WTC 2)
- Chopin: Etude, Op. 25, No. 5
- Beethoven: Sonata, Op. 31, No. 3
- Scriabin: Two Poems, Op. 32
- Debussy: Prelude Bk II No. 3

Offline the89thkey

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 01:33:48 AM »
Surely someone of your stature has lots of orchestras at your disposal whenever you feel like practicing a concerto?
I think that if you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't make such a pathetic attempt at sarcasm. I will relieve you of your ignorance for the time being. Pianists rehearse a few times with orchestras before a concert. When you practice, someone else plays the accompaniment.
For me, it's usually my friend, whom I've known since shortly after college. He doesn't play for a living, but he's a fairly strong pianist and we often sight read two piano or four hand pieces together, in addition to rehearsing whatever concertos we are working on at the moment. I play his Beethoven 3 and Mozart 25 accompaniments for him sometimes, and he plays my Schumann concerto, Tchaikovsky 1, and Rach 3 accompaniments for me. It's nice to have a friend who plays.

Offline zezhyrule

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Re: Editing piano concerto recordings
«Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 01:40:03 AM »
Hence the irony.  It wasn't great sarcasm, but it was pretty sardonic  :)
Currently learning -

- Bach: P&F in F Minor (WTC 2)
- Chopin: Etude, Op. 25, No. 5
- Beethoven: Sonata, Op. 31, No. 3
- Scriabin: Two Poems, Op. 32
- Debussy: Prelude Bk II No. 3