What do you think about the afterlife

[Bob]

Google Exodus  34: 6-7.

Dang.  Google's putting their brand on everything now.  Google Exodus.  Google Corinthians.  Google New Testament.


I did think of emotions.  You could throw that in as another thing to define.  I'm thinking it's just chemicals in the brain though.

[littletune]

You don't have to have the wrath if you believe in God and follow him.

Imagine you're a parent, and your child keeps on running through the house recklessly, while screaming and breaking things. If you told him to stop, and he kept on, wouldn't you become angry after a while?

This is what God is like. He gave us the Bible, His word, that we might believe in it, and obey Him, and learn about Him. When we break His word, and fail to obey Him, like a parent, he becomes frustrated, and eventually angry. The Bible says that God is long-suffering. He waits for us to obey Him, patiently, but eventually He will become angered.

Google Exodus  34: 6-7.

Thanks I will google that.
But I still think that's a human way of dealing with someone who's  not acting the way someone expects them to, I mean I don't have to imagine I'm a parent, I can imagine my pets   I get angry at them sometimes and I always feel bad about it later, even if they did something wrong... I sure don't want to see them sad and scared. I don't think a perfect being would want that either. I just think God has to be better than that. If someone really is a horrible person and hurting others I think that pesron just feels back all the pain they caused to others, but just for not doing something exactly like it says in some book just doesn't seem a good enough reason for punishing someone and getting so angry at them. Cause that would be a selfish thing and I'm sure God is not selfish! And you get people (and other living beings) to do what you want them to do by loving them and respecting them and trying to understand them, not by making them afraid and hurting them and making them suffer. That's just what I learned. That's why I don't believe in eternal suffering in hell and things like that. God is better than that! God teaches and makes someone change with love not with wrath. And I don't want to seem disrespectful, or like I think I know everything, if you belive in God's wrath I respect that, maybe you're right, but it doesn't work for me, I couldn't respect God the way I should if I knew he was so revengeful and I wouldn't feel right doing things just because of fear. I want to do things because I feel they're right. Maybe I'll get punished for that I don't know, but I hope not because I have soooo much love and respect for every living being and for the whole universe, I hope that's what counts!  

[littletune]

littletune, there's this great scene in the Jodi Foster movie, "Contact," where she plays a very, very logical scientist and a friend questions her about belief in something beyond her scientific observations.

She laughs at him and says "there is a proof for everything that exists." 

Then he says, "Did your father love you?"

She's a little bewildered at the question and answers, "Yes!  Of course."

Her friend then says, "Prove it."



She can't, of course.  But she knows it is true. 

Some things we know are just true.

(thank you for the invisible sentense too!)

[rachmaninoff_forever]

@ All:

Science and conditioned scientific thinking CANNOT answer all the questions, because the "conclusions" science comes to are all based on too many assumptions that sometimes have to be corrected. Einstein's theory of relativity, for example, doesn't seem to work under all circumstances. What scientists "proved" to be very good for your health ten years or so ago is now declared harmful by other scientists, etc.

Why not just acknowledge that we have no answer? If we are positive people, then all we have is HOPE. The battle between science and religion cannot be won; it is in itself pointless. It would just draw this topic into the wrong direction and leave a young person confused.

That's why when a scientist doesn't know something, they say something along the lines of, 'we don't know yet, but we'll try to find out'.

[Bob]

Hmm.... I suppose if there is a soul thing...  Is that going to contain all your memories, etc.  Skills?  Everything that is "you?"  Or does the saying, "You can't take it with you," applicable there too?  

I wonder what the point would be then.... Die, erase everything from your soul, start fresh.... Maybe to have more experiences with a blank starting place?  Or it's just the natural laws that control all that, no reason for it really.  It just is.  You'd still be accumulating experiences though.... Building up your karma I suppose.  I'm just wondering what the point of having a bunch of blank souls around is.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

If you chose not to believe God, and follow Him, in the end you will be judged, and will find yourself serving eternally under His wrath in Hell.

I don't like the concept of eternal torture.

I can't think of ANYONE who deserves eternal torture.  Not even Hitler, or the guy who killed everyone in the Connecticut shooting.  I mean sure, maybe like 100 years or something, but after a certain point in time, enough is enough.

Infinite punishment for a finite crime makes your god infinitely more evil than every evil man who has ever lived on this planet...

...
...
...


EVER!!!

[Bob]

It does seem a bit harsh.  Make a mistake... punishment for eternity.  No chance of rehabilitation either. Who's doing the punishing?  Doesn't that take an awful lot of effort? And if it's just one person.... Why invest all that effort into torturing them?  It would be better to just leave them alone.  Eternal ignorement.  Or just... wipe them out of existence.  Problem solved.  No extra effort.  No more evil.  Done.  I imagine God could see the future, so God would know what they were going to do.... Why not alter things ahead of time?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I imagine God could see the future, so God would know what they were going to do.... Why not alter things ahead of time?

Free will wouldn't exist.  Unless he/she/it can't see the future.  But that wouldn't make him/her/it Omnipotent.

[littletune]

I agree with you both (although I still haven't read all of your posts Bob  ).

I think what the problem is with trying to understand afterlife and things like that is that we are trying to understand them the way things are here in this world. But the afterlife would be a different world so we would need to think about it in a different way...

Like time... I don't think we should imagine that time outside our world is the same as it lookes here for us. I mean if you think about it... we can say for sure that somewhere in the future we are all dead right? (I mean at least our bodies), so if it would be true that you completely stop existing when you die, we shouldn't exist at all!! I think that even if there was nothing after you die (like no heaven or whatever special place) we still have our life the one we are living now... because if that would stop existing when we die we wouldn't exist at all! and all the things that people made or did when they were still alive would stop existing too! So if there's nothing else I am sure our life is forever! I think we should look at time outside our world more like space not like time. And I mean while we're alive we're kinda stuck in the moment because we can only be aware of one moment, It's kinda like looking at yourself in the mirror, you can't see yourself not looking at yourself in the mirror (if you only have one mirror of course), you can either not look at yourself in the mirror and then you don't see yourself or you can look at yourself in the mirror and then you see yourself. that's kinda like it is with what you're experiencing... when you are aware of one moment you are aware of that moment, you can't be in two moments at the same time, that's why it seems like you're stuck and like all other moments don't really exist (anymore/yet), but it just seems that way to us, because we can only be aware of one moment at one moment.  It's hard to explain what I what to say... does anyone know what I'm saying at all? 

[cmg]

Like time... I don't think we should imagine that time outside our world is the same as it lookes here for us. I mean if you think about it... we can say for sure that somewhere in the future we are all dead right? (I mean at least our bodies), so if it would be true that you completely stop existing when you die, we shouldn't exist at all!! I think that even if there was nothing after you die (like no heaven or whatever special place) we still have our life the one we are living now... because if that would stop existing when we die we wouldn't exist at all! and all the things that people made or did when they were still alive would stop existing too! So if there's nothing else I am sure our life is forever! I think we should look at time outside our world more like space not like time. And I mean while we're alive we're kinda stuck in the moment because we can only be aware of one moment, It's kinda like looking at yourself in the mirror, you can't see yourself not looking at yourself in the mirror (if you only have one mirror of course), you can either not look at yourself in the mirror and then you don't see yourself or you can look at yourself in the mirror and then you see yourself. that's kinda like it is with what you're experiencing... when you are aware of one moment you are aware of that moment, you can't be in two moments at the same time, that's why it seems like you're stuck and like all other moments don't really exist (anymore/yet), but it just seems that way to us, because we can only be aware of one moment at one moment.   It's hard to explain what I what to say... does anyone know what I'm saying at all?  

littletune, this is most wise and profound.  I would be honored to be your online friend.  Keep thinking this way and you'll have a most creative life, full of love.  That's my wish for you, of course.  Happy New Year!!

[outin]

Really that feels right to you? that there's just nothing?

Yes, anything else would be unnatural...I guess I am just weird in that way...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Yes, anything else would be unnatural...I guess I am just weird in that way...

Because it's not about what helps you sleep at night.  It's about what's actually going to happen.

[zezhyrule]

It's pretty cool actually. I'd recommend it.

[outin]

Because it's not about what helps you sleep at night.

But I do sleep very well, a bit too well actually...

[cmg]

It's not about what helps you sleep at night.  It's about what's actually going to happen.

With all due respect, your philosophy is no more than an opinion -- as is mine.

It's just as "natural" to assume continuation as it is termination.  


As Valentina Lisitsa said to me just yesterday:

"Give me a guy in Ray Bans, and I'm his forever!"

I have no idea what she meant, but it made me smile.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

With all due respect, your philosophy is no more than an opinion -- as is mine.

I know.  When I said it's what's actually going to happen, I didn't mean what I actually thought was going to happen.

We were talking about what you think happens after death right?  And I think people ended up talking about what they would like to happen.

Well, it's not about what you would like to happen, it's about what you think actually happens.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

As Valentina Lisitsa said to me just yesterday:

"Give me a guy in Ray Bans, and I'm his forever!"

I have no idea what she meant, but it made me smile.

When Valentina and I get married, I want you to be my best man.

[p2u_]

Some things we know are just true.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (c)

The only thing we should NOT do in these matters is: label things, especially for others. That's exactly what both religion and science tend to do.

Paul

[outin]

When Valentina and I get married, I want you to be my best man.

And I think people ended up talking about what they would like to happen.

So true...

Can I just have some cake, please? I'll let you keep your hands for the honeymoon then

[cmg]

When Valentina and I get married, I want you to be my best man.

 . . . accepted most gratefully by your humble servant!  (Note to self:  get Ray Bans for ceremony.)   

[littletune]

littletune, this is most wise and profound.  I would be honored to be your online friend.  Keep thinking this way and you'll have a most creative life, full of love.  That's my wish for you, of course.  Happy New Year!!

Thank you!   I would be happy to be your online friend!!! Well... my dad is pretty worried about what my life is going to be like  I'm just too weird... but I hope you're right!!  A very happy New Year to you too!! 

[outin]

Well... my dad is pretty worried about what my life is going to be like  I'm just too weird...

Oh do not worry, Littletune! Being weird is not so bad really. You do not need to do things like other people to live a good life. You just need to find peace with yourself, then the rest will take care of itself. In time you learn to adapt better to the ways of the "normal people" without losing yourself in the process. Being weird can also mean being creative in ways unknown to most and when you learn to make it into good use people learn to appreciate that.

Happy New Year!

[littletune]

Oh do not worry, Littletune! Being weird is not so bad really. You do not need to do things like other people to live a good life. You just need to find peace with yourself, then the rest will take care of itself. In time you learn to adapt better to the ways of the "normal people" without losing yourself in the process. Being weird can also mean being creative in ways unknown to most and when you learn to make it into good use people learn to appreciate that.

Happy New Year!

Thank you Outin!  You're very nice! That makes me feel a little better! A very happy 2013!!

[emill]

HI Littletune!

Above all a prosperous and happy new year to you and your family!!
May I just say that for a teenager you are so deep into thought about questions of life and existence and your manner of expressing your thoughts and ideas is so profound and uncommon for your age.  For me it is good as we will have one human being less attached to all the inanities of the world!   

I have always believed that there are innumerable questions that at the moment and for a time to come cannot be explained by science and can only be believed through faith. One of those is the afterlife. For me, man's knowledge of things or his logic and understanding has yet to evolve to a level which can elucidate such questions. I also believe that our present scientific devices or tools are still crude and rudimentary when used to answer such questions. And maybe the proof to such can not be achieved if we view and seek answers through our usual ways of perceiving and documenting in our physical world.

Something happened in my younger days that has greatly influenced the way I look at these questions and please bear the length of this story.  This was in the late 70's when I was a medical clerk ( a 4th year medical student).  One of the senior medical resident, age about 30,  "died" due to complication of a severe viral infection to his heart.  All the top doctors of our hospital were in frenzy trying to revive and keep him alive.  He practically had zero blood pressure and no spontaneous respirations.  He was in deep coma and only machines like the ventilator kept his breathing going.

I was the most junior of the team on duty that day ... so I was 24 hours on bed-side duty.  There was also a medical resident exclusively assigned to watch over him. You can say it was super VIP treatment since he was one of us. Normally it will be the nurses keeping watch.

After several days he regained consciousness and eventually his blood pressure stabilized and no longer required supporting medications and he was taken off the respirator.  Since I was still assigned to him, he told me stories about his "out of body experience" and the usual dark tunnel into the bright and overwhelming light thing, a common experience among those near death.  Frankly I took those stories for granted and dismissed it as the effect of his reading too many books about those.

However he told me some things which shook me and up to this day I can not just forget. In his "out of body experience" he went down or floated to the hospital lobby which was 4 floors below and saw this hospital employee talking to a young attractive woman. He identified the employee and described in detail the woman. He even gave the date, which was the 2nd day of his coma and the time it occurred.  He also floated to the medical residents living quarters which was in a different building and saw a few resident doctors taking a rest. He also saw a resident doctor cooking his meal in the kitchen.  He was able to name all the doctors, there were only 5 then, what they were wearing and doing, some sleeping, some in shorts (even the color of their shorts), all shirtless and what the other doctor was cooking.  On the way up back to his room he entered an empty hospital room and saw this doctor using the toilet of that private room (hehhee).

I was able to verify all the events to be true to every detail and this has bothered me with so many questions up to today. How could he have known correctly such details as he was in coma and attached to respirator???    "Logic" tells me that the only way for him to have seen and witnessed  the events he described vividly was to be really out of his physical body in some form since at that time he was in coma.  In that same light ..... then there must have been also a form of "consciousness" and "reality" when he experienced the dark tunnel or blackness into the bright light thing. At that moment he felt extremely happy, an indescribable joy enveloped him but was asked by an elderly man to go back as people still needed him.

You can say that our subject doctor was a "playboy" as he had 2-3 girl friends at the same time and he enjoyed the night life and gambling. By his habits he definitely was not a religious person. He sort of lived for the day as if the end of the world was coming soon. He was back at work after 10 weeks, but he was a totally changed man.  After residency, he entered the priesthood and now is the director of theology of their priestly order.  Whenever I meet him, he would kid me that he pitied me a lot because he saw in my face that I am grappling and doubting my faith about God's existence. ...   and with a big grin and a wink of his eye he would tell me in a loud voice "I have been there and I know that it is true, there is a God and life after death".

 

 

[littletune]

Thank you Emill!! Wow that was a really great story!!! Thanks so much for writing about it!! I heard of some stories that were kinda like this one, but when you don't know the people who are telling them you're not completely sure if you should trust them! But I know that everything you said was true! I'm so glad you wrote about this!!!     
Oh and I knew it! I knew you were a doctor! 

I want to write about some of the weird or unexplainable things that happened in my life... 

Well the first one is kinda from even before I was born. And that is because my grandmother (my mum's mum) died before I was born (she had cancer). But when she was already very sick, not long before she died, she said to my mum: you are going to have a girl, but I won't live to see her (all of my mum's other sisters already had babies and they were all boys). And that was true, she died before I was born and I'm a girl. And then my mum didn't talk to me about her mum dying while I was still a baby of course (I mean how are you going to talk to a baby about that), but then one day when I was 2 years old I just said to my mum: Poor mum, cause you don't have your mum with you anymore! And my mum couldn't really figure out how I knew that but I just did. Cause everyone said they didn't tell me, but even if they did how would they explain that to a 2 year old anyway  oh and also my mum's mum died at night (in a hospital) and my mum was home sleeping, but then she woke up because she heard someone knocking on the window and she woke up and said: mum! (or in my language: mami!) and then a few minutes after that the phone rang and they told her her mum had just died.

So that's the first of my stories. I will write more of them.

[emill]

hi littletune,

WOW!!  I am all "eyes and ears" to hear more stories. Can not help smile a lot!! 

I like the way you view and narrate things .... it is different from how an adult, much more a senior adult would write.  You can say it is a "refreshing" viewpoint .... looking and experiencing things from a teen's point of view.  Though not an ordinary teen, but someone sensitive and profound.  THANKS !!!

emill   

[littletune]

Thank you Emill! I'm  very happy you like the way I say things!!! I will write more as soon as I feel a little better and figure out some things. Thank you!!!!!!

[ahinton]

When Valentina and I get married

...she'll become a bigamist.

Anyway, to return swiftly to the topic - if in "the afterlife" a composer cannot manage to come up with anything better than the anæmic, insipid, techniqueless and thoroughly boring excrescences that the late Rosemary Brown sought to attribute to "Liszt" et al, then "the afterlife" sure ain't for me!

Or, as someone else once said when asked the same question as posed in the thread topic, "I'm not enjoying it much"...

Best,

Alistair

[oxy60]

Because we stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before, how we live our life gives honor to them. Our parents, grand parents, etc., live on in us. In that way they have eternal life. We keep them alive by following their best precepts and making a better life for ourselves.

It goes without saying that I extend my sincerest sympathy to those who have experienced recent losses.

[iansinclair]

Not having been there -- so far as I know -- I'm hardly able to answer... although I do agree with a couple of folks here who have stated various aspects of the Christian point of view.

And I will agree that we live exclusively in the present (along those lines, it is not even possible to prove that the past existed, when you come right down to it!).  But I would say that we all are a very complex array of potentials, and that every act we do in the present makes it possible to actualize certain of those potentials -- and makes it forever impossible to actualize others.  Thus by the very act of existing, we make it impossible for us to be all we could be.  But that is because we exist in time.

One possible view of an afterlife is that it is independent of time.  And that our essential being is what is there (a synonym for soul?  Perhaps), and that all of our potentials are available to us.

There are a few folks out there who have written about this a lot better than I can -- Soren Kierkegaard, Martin Buber, Paul Tillich to name a few.

And I also think that it is possible to gain glimpses of what might be -- great music sometimes (try the Sanctus and Agnus Dei of the Berlioz Requiem); very very briefly for an instant of time in a relationship; perhaps just contemplating (meditating?) on a sunny afternoon on a park bench...

[ted]

Three books well worth reading on this are "An Experiment with Time" by J.W. Dunne, "Over the Long High Wall" by J.B. Priestley and "I am a Strange Loop" by Douglas Hofstadter. Littletune, your mirror analogy is remarkably close to the kernel idea in Hofstadter's book. Read it if you get a chance, you would get a lot out of it. Dunne argues that the existence of precognitive data in dreams implies the immortality of the soul, or subjective consciousness. Priestley embraces Dunne's conjecture and adds a few perceptive touches of his own. Whatever you actually believe, or think you ought to believe, all three books are insightful and provocative without requiring academic or philosophical background.

[Bob]

After I heard the idea, I wasn't sure it's so great if you get an afterlife with everything you want.  Just picture it.  Whatever you want, whenever you want, boom, there, done. 

It doesn't too realistic, but then it's the afterlife.  I think it would get old after awhile to have everything your way all the time.

[brendan765]

I feel since we canot understand the concept of nothingness, whatever it is that our "soul" is will still be something after we die.

You know we dont have any idea how to determine the difference between whats Living and whats non living or  even what was once living but is now dead.
       ITS A FREAKING ANOMALLY! WE WILL NEVER KNOW

I think its because one can not look into their "soul" just like one can only look at whats in front of them un less they turn around...whats behind you is still theire but you cant see it unless you look at a mirror.


Maybe scientists will use the equivalence of a mirror to see into our souls...I believe it to be that after you die our cells just die but our actual soul lives for ever in the time space continum and which I think is completely amazing and odd,

[oxy60]

A private belief in the existence of an afterlife should never be exploited by political or religious to get us to do things we would not normally do such as put on an explosive vest or fly a plane on a one way mission.

Over the centuries it seems that there is no end to the number of people wanting to define our vision for us.

[drexo]

Littletune, it's just normal to think about things like this every now and then, especially when you've lost someone.

I know there's nothing after we die. That's it. Can't prove it, I just know. It is not depressing or sad, it just feels right. We live and then we die. The same goes for animals and plants. Only things like rocks can be "forever" (even things have their limits actually). I would find the idea of people being somewhere as something after they die disturbing and unnatural.

The only thing about dying that bothers me is that it can happen anytime (I'd prefer to know in good time before) and it probably will happen sooner than I would want. I might very well die before I have learnt to play even one Chopin ballade. Or see what the world looks like in 50 years. If I could choose I think I wouldn't mind living forever, but not as some immaterial being but as I am now.

100% agree with you. We're all equal in the end - just like before we were born.

I personally can't understand people's fear of death. It's as common as waking up again and the earth moving around the sun. It happens every hour, every minute, every second, sometimes in numerous amounts at the same time.

I do understand people's fear of how they will gonna pass away. I mean, I don't like the idea of burning alive either. But eventually we will all end up the same, no matter what belief system someone might profess or thinks what will happen in some afterlife. Personally I'm very serene about that thought. I can't live with a thought of having a consciousness for eternity.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

...she'll become a bigamist.

No she won't!!!

She's gonna divorce her husband and marry me!

[Bob]

Fear of change.  Or fear of having to suffer along the way.  Fear of the unknown.  No one's really going to give you peace of mind about that, unless you delude yourself.


It's kind of strange how it's always looming out there but we go about our daily lives thinking of little things.  And that we don't invest a lot more into preventing it.  I'd rather see billions and trillions spent on figuring out how one gene works and extend everyone's lives a little over spending that money on war, esp. when nothing ends up being decided with those wars.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

You know we dont have any idea how to determine the difference between whats Living and whats non living or  even what was once living but is now dead.
  

Yes we do.  There's several criteirion for discerning living from dead:

Metabolism - every living thing has a metabolism

response to stimuli - every living thing responds to stimuli

composed of cells - every living thing is composed of cells

Reproduction - this is probably the biggest one; every living thing has the ability to reproduce


I know that I'm missing a few, but those are just a few to start off with.  But keep note this is how we determine living from dead concerning life on EARTH.  We don't know about extraterrestrial life forms, because we haven't seen any yet.  Or at least we don't know if we've seen any.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I personally can't understand people's fear of death.

Fear of the unknown.  It's human nature.

[outin]

Fear of the unknown.  It's human nature.

Is it? I have never been afraid of the unknown. I only fear things that I know of. Unknown to me is something that can be anything and that's just interesting, not scary. Being dead is not scary but the actual act of dying may be, if it is very painful, because I know about pain.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Is it? I have never been afraid of the unknown. I only fear things that I know of. Unknown to me is something that can be anything and that's just interesting, not scary. Being dead is not scary but the actual act of dying may be, if it is very painful, because I know about pain.

It is. 

It's just that now we know A LOT more than we used to do back we were cavemen.  Fear of the unknown was key for survival back in the olden times.

[drexo]

It is.  

It's just that now we know A LOT more than we used to do back we were cavemen.  Fear of the unknown was key for survival back in the olden times.

Indeed - back in the olden times it was.

I have no fear of the unknown either. I won't even know if the unknown is there, which is the point where I'm already gone.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Indeed - back in the olden times it was.

I have no fear of the unknown either. I won't even know if the unknown is there, which is the point where I'm already gone.

It's actually still dangerous to have no fear of the unknown.  I mean, you're not gonna run around full speed in a pitch black room now are you?  You might run into a wall or something lol.

I assume you don't play rush and roulette.  You don't know which chamber the bullet is in.

Or if you're skating, you're not gonna throw yourself down a stair set before actually checking to see how many stairs it is, or if the run up is smooth and long enough.  

[drexo]

It's actually still dangerous to have no fear of the unknown.  I mean, you're not gonna run around full speed in a pitch black room now are you?  You might run into a wall or something lol.

I assume you don't play rush and roulette.  You don't know which chamber the bullet is in.

Or if you're skating, you're not gonna throw yourself down a stair set before actually checking to see how many stairs it is, or if the run up is smooth and long enough.  

I might run into that wall, so I avoid from doing so by not running around in that pitch black room. It was a possibility.

In this topic we're talking about an "afterlife", and indeed, I could be very wrong. I could hit that wall before death big time. Does that make me anxious or afraid of that pitch black room!? Not at all. I'll play russian roulette with you and if that wall hits me I've explored the unknown before you know it.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I might run into that wall, so I avoid from doing so by not running around in that pitch black room. It was a possibility.

 Does that make me anxious or afraid of that pitch black room!? Not at all. I'll play russian roulette with you and if that wall hits me I've explored the unknown before you know it.

EXACTLY!!!

Except we don't call it fear.  We call it not being a moron.

If you wanna play rush and roulette with me then you're crazy.

But I'll play if I can win the heart of Valentina Lisitsa!

[drexo]

EXACTLY!!!

Except we don't call it fear.  We call it not being a moron.

If you wanna play rush and roulette with me then you're crazy.

But I'll play if I can win the heart of Valentina Lisitsa!

One shot can hit the right spot.

[outin]

But I'll play if I can win the heart of Valentina Lisitsa!

Aren't you afraid of her, since you don't really know her, do you? 

[j_menz]

Aren't you afraid of her, since you don't really know her, do you? 

For Rach4eva, she's a known unknown. For her, he's an unknown unknown. Which is scarier?

Rumsfeld finally makes sense. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Aren't you afraid of her, since you don't really know her, do you? 

Yes I do!!!

Love is telepathic.

[oxy60]

...spending that money on war, esp. when nothing ends up being decided with those wars.

Exactly, Bob, and what are most of those wars about? Religion!

Littletune lives on a chunk of territory on which the blood of countless people has been spilled over the centuries. Is there something there that nobody has heard about? No, the wars have been between two major religions fighting for supremacy. What is the difference between them; martyrdom, and differing views of the afterlife.

(sorry to the historical purists... I tend to paint with a large brush...)