Synchronization in Waldstein

[teosoleil]

I'm having problems in the first movement of the Waldstein where I just can't synchronize the left hand to the right hand properly, specifically in the buildup to the climax and the before-section where the left hand plays broken fifths with the right hand having a "two-voice" build-up.

Any help with synchronization?

[j_menz]

Do you have a bar number? I can't see where you're talking about, I'm afraid.

[liug_2012]

I believe he's talking around Meas. 9...

I had difficulty with that passage a lot, when I was learning it. It's easy to see why; everything sounds the same.

With that in mind, try playing the broken fifths with some variation in dynamics, such as pulsing the first and third beats of the measure. I think that will help greatly.

[p2u_]

Any help with synchronization?

One problem is that you should not strive to get the hands to be coordinated with one another. Actually, you need the opposite: maximum independence.

Further, since I am right-handed, I have a general rule for myself that my left hand should be able to do at least 115% in terms of speed of what the right hand can do.

The rest is in your head, your inner ear, etc. You have to able to imagine the sound AND the movements while not playing physically. As long as you can't do that a tempo, your attempts at success will mostly depend on chance.

P.S.: Forcing the speed will not help you; what you need is deliberate SLOW practice of high-quality movement.

Paul

[pts1]

P2U is exactly correct.

The more independent the left hand is, the more comfortable you'll be in these type passages.

Since most people are right handed, and since most of the work in piano is done by the right hand -- at least the difficult work -- this leaves the poor left hand quite neglected.

So I agree that the left hand needs to be MORE competent than the right hand!

Beethoven is simply chocked full of these type of passages i.e. tremolos of one sort or another mixed with Alberti type bases... just to cite a few... 3rd movement of Moonlight, 1st and 3rd mvmt of opus2 no 3, 1st mvmt of Appassionata, 3rd mvmt of Les Adieux

What I have done is make a little routine of playing all sorts of these left hand tremolo based passages mixing them together in all keys building endurance. (the Hanon tremolo exercise is actually pretty good but deadly boring and I don't think its as good as doing a lot of mixed salad Beethoven bases!)

Also, do all finger combinations of trills with the LH, since all a tremolo is, is a trill in a wider expanse!

Start doing say 5 minutes of a variety of these bases left hand only in a comfortable tempo, say 20% or so less than your "discomfort" speed, until you can change at will into any key and any configuration.

Once your LH feels like a real foundation upon which the Sonata rests (not struggles with) then you've really accomplished something.

I'm afraid there is no easy way, trick, or quick way around this.

And if you really dedicate yourself to doing this every day and make LH work alone part of your routine, you'll be amazed at how your technique and confidence will improve.

A strong and independent LH is a MAJOR asset for pianists!

[nyiregyhazi]

One problem is that you should not strive to get the hands to be coordinated with one another. Actually, you need the opposite: maximum independence.

Further, since I am right-handed, I have a general rule for myself that my left hand should be able to do at least 115% in terms of speed of what the right hand can do.

The rest is in your head, your inner ear, etc. You have to able to imagine the sound AND the movements while not playing physically. As long as you can't do that a tempo, your attempts at success will mostly depend on chance.

P.S.: Forcing the speed will not help you; what you need is deliberate SLOW practice of high-quality movement.

Paul

I sort of agree yet sort of don't. Personally I'd view it more in terms of how many options you have. Personally, I'd start out with just 2 notes plus one extra, done hands together. Every time it's the last notes on which maximum awareness is aimed. Did they land exactly together? If not why? Then it's four notes plus one. Then eight notes plus one. Then a whole bar plus one etc- always paying close attention to whether the synchronisation is spot on when you arrive on the final meeting point. This way, you are both training awarenss of precise coordination of two hands BUT you are also training yourself to let go of that and just flow straight through everything else- concerning yourself only with the synchronisation on your final destination of each group. I think it's necessary to have the contrast in mindsets- so the hands can either be tied into very precise meeting points or left to flow more freely.

For me the biggest problems are when you don't set proper anchor points, before aiming for independence. The best "independence" is still tied into a two-handed coordination, somewhere beneath the surface.