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Is piano a lonely activity? (Read 12617 times)

Offline jogoeshome

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Is piano a lonely activity?
« on: January 12, 2013, 06:28:53 PM »
Are you losing friends because of it? Do you feel lonely? I mean instead of sitting in front of an instrument you could be going to the movies with your neighbor or something...

Offline outin

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 06:32:21 PM »
Yes, piano practicing is a lone activity and that's exactly why I love it... I have never been really social and lately I have grown rather tired of my friends, so it's great to have such a perfect excuse  ;)

Offline jogoeshome

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 06:37:08 PM »
Yes, piano practicing is a lone activity and that's exactly why I love it... I have never been really social and lately I have grown rather tired of my friends, so it's great to have such a perfect excuse  ;)

That's awful, you sound like a sociopath. I'm actually sociable, but I like playing too, so I've got this conflict going on in my life...

Offline chapplin

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #3 on: January 12, 2013, 06:43:22 PM »
Yeah it's quite lonesome. If you're a noob at organizing your practice routine. There is always room for friends even though you play piano alot every day. Even with 8 hours/day routine there is 8 hours left for friends. If you sleep 8 hours each night.
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Offline p2u_

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #4 on: January 12, 2013, 07:11:47 PM »
Yes, piano practicing is a lone activity and that's exactly why I love it... I have never been really social and lately I have grown rather tired of my friends, so it's great to have such a perfect excuse  ;)

That's awful, you sound like a sociopath.

And you sound like yet another troll. Someone who is self-sufficient is not necessarily a sociopath. Go look up first what difficult words mean before you use them.

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Offline mathandmusic

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #5 on: January 12, 2013, 07:15:56 PM »
Are you losing friends because of it? Do you feel lonely? I mean instead of sitting in front of an instrument you could be going to the movies with your neighbor or something...

Personally, no. I value both a social and personal life equally so I budget time for both, keeping in mind that while spending time with friends that I have a private life and that while spending time living alone (playing piano, doing things engineers do, etc...) that I enjoy the company of others.

I think you should keep in mind that being social doesn't necessarily preclude you from being personal. Also note the difference between being alone and being lonely. One is a state of being while the other is the state of mind. (...You can probably make an entire bag of Cheetos with that last cheesy statement  ::))

Speaking of "conflicts", I don't think it's possible to have conflicting preferences for social/personal activities since you will inevitable chose one or the other -- either you do or you don't hang out with your friends to play the piano. If you feel that you've neglected your social life, playing the piano, just spend some time being social. It's not like you can't go home early one night after spending time among friends and just play piano.

Offline jogoeshome

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 07:26:35 PM »
Personally, no. I value both a social and personal life equally so I budget time for both, keeping in mind that while spending time with friends that I have a private life and that while spending time living alone (playing piano, doing things engineers do, etc...) that I enjoy the company of others.


well, good for you. sometimes I get too much into my playing, as like an autistic person. And i forget to plan the day for going out. Its comfy being there nice and warm in my piano room.

Offline outin

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 07:34:17 PM »
That's awful, you sound like a sociopath.

And you sound like yet another troll. Someone who is self-sufficient is not necessarily a sociopath. Go look up first what difficult words mean before you use them.


Yet he might not be completely wrong... I get along with people very well, but my lack of emotional interest in them or their lives might suggest sociopathic tendencies. I try not to behave like one though  ;D

Offline oxy60

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 08:31:52 PM »
Yet he might not be completely wrong... I get along with people very well, but my lack of emotional interest in them or their lives might suggest sociopathic tendencies. I try not to behave like one though  ;D

It also could be how they are relating to you. I prefer to not speak about people but many folks just want to gossip or tell about their latest diagnosis. *groan*

I have always enjoyed being part of a musical group because musicians talk about music not themselves. I try to keep a distance but be friendly. I do care about people but in most cases I can do nothing to help them solve or deal with personal issues.

Many times the solitude of playing the piano is preferable.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline mateya323

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 08:39:31 PM »
Actually not. They are one of the reasons why I play piano and sometimes fullfil a few their music wishes. They are the best audience and I am never afraid to play in front of them. It is also very useful when you make friends. For example my classmate really wanted to play Ballade pour Adeline and I sat next to her and started to teach her how to play...even though she wasn't able the whole piece at the end it was a very nice experience for her and from then on she was allways kind to me.

Offline outin

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 09:09:33 PM »
It also could be how they are relating to you. I prefer to not speak about people but many folks just want to gossip or tell about their latest diagnosis. *groan*


Maybe so :)

Today when I was pretty involved with my piano my phone rang 3 times and each time I looked who it was and didn't bother to answer. Because I can predict what they wanted to talk about and I much preferred my piano practice...

If it was something really important (like they needed help) I am sure they could send me an SMS  :P

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #11 on: January 13, 2013, 12:49:23 AM »
That's awful, you sound like a sociopath. I'm actually sociable, but I like playing too, so I've got this conflict going on in my life...

I don't think you know what a sociopath is.

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Offline j_menz

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 01:19:53 AM »
How can it be lonely to be in communion/conversation with at least one other person?  :-\
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #13 on: January 13, 2013, 02:22:31 AM »
Hmmm, I wrote an essay (as usual) that I guess I never submitted.  Summary:

Life is a balancing act.  It's up to you how to maintain those relationships, and you might actually find you simply enjoy playing more than managing some of them.  If you're lonely, it's up to you to change your habits.  There is only so much time in a day, don't waste it.  You also need to remember that you aren't the only one with hobbies.  When you are doing yours, they are often times doing theirs (watching TV).

My answers are no and no.  If they start to turn into yes's, I'm doing a poor job of managing the priorities I tell myself vs. the priorities I actually have.
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #14 on: January 13, 2013, 02:41:47 AM »
The practicing part can be lonely; at least it is alone (usually -- I at least find it quite impossible to practice when I know there is someone listening to me).  But that doesn't mean that piano is a lonely activity, at least if, from time to time, you play for friends (or they play for you), or you share experiences and problems and triumphs with others who will understand them (they don't have to be other pianists, although it is likely that they will be other musicians).

If my playing can make someone else happy, then it is worth the hours of practicing alone!
Ian

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #15 on: January 13, 2013, 02:47:42 AM »
It also doesn't need to be limited directly to the musical topics. As a personal example, my wide array of hobbies provide great enjoyment to my friends.  I almost never have my phone on me and take a long time to respond.  When it takes me awhile they assume I'm sitting around playing piano, drinking wine, reading history books and eating brains.  The finer things in life that provide great enjoyment to my friends when making fun of me.
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline andreslr6

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #16 on: January 13, 2013, 03:33:39 AM »
It's super lonely! the loneliest activity of them all! in fact, this is the only human contact I have, I've turned into some ugly creature now because of the piano, like some kind of Gollum, I live in a cave, with a piano surrounded with bottles of my own piss. I lost my friends long time ago, I can barely remember their faces. I forgot the feeling of air in my face and the smell of life. I'm very lonely.

*crawls back into the deep of cave, on four and making a disturbing high-pitched shriek*

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 03:54:48 AM »
Working on piano for hours every day can seem like a very solitary life. I don't believe however it is the reason for the loneliness. When I sit at the piano to practice I consider this going to work, like someone who travels to their workplace. It is easy to think that it is not and one is just going to play the piano, but if you play the piano seriously you should consider it like going to work.

Learn to work hard and play hard. If you merely work all the time or confuse the difference between work and play (which is easy to do with piano) you set yourself up for problems.


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Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #18 on: January 13, 2013, 04:19:11 AM »
*crawls back into the deep of cave, on four and making a disturbing high-pitched shriek*

Thanks, my piano was off key.
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline ahinton

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #19 on: January 15, 2013, 09:12:30 AM »
What's so special about playing the piano? In the present context, I mean! I do not see how devoting hours to practising piano is any more or less of a loneliness inducing experience than practising cello, oboe or any other instrument or spending one's time in singing practice. One might argue that composition is an even lonelier occupation in that, at least when one practises an instrument or practises singing, one "communes" with the sounds that one produces whereas, with composition, those sounds remain confined to the head of the composer and do nothing for anyone else until they are performed.

That said, the fundamental difference between loneliness and solitariness has not yet been fully recognised here.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #20 on: January 15, 2013, 11:03:29 AM »
What's so special about playing the piano?
The piano is not considered a very social instrument in the way that you can't carry one on your back everywhere you go.
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Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #21 on: January 15, 2013, 07:13:19 PM »
with composition, those sounds remain confined to the head of the composer and do nothing for anyone else until they are performed.

Or just disappear from lack of short term memory.
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline teran

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 04:31:55 AM »
Yes OP it is a solitary thing and I love the solitude.

I'm constantly waist deep in people and all the problems that come with them, piano is one of the few things that gives me some breathing space.

Offline mahlermaniac

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 04:58:32 PM »
That's awful, you sound like a sociopath. I'm actually sociable, but I like playing too, so I've got this conflict going on in my life...

Actually,  a sociopath is someone who manipulates others and lacks empathy. Or "antisocial" Someone who has a long-term preference for solitude and actively avoids other is termes "asocial" which is still a big leap to tag someone based off one brief sentence on the internet.

Anyway, for me playing piano is often a very family-oriented activity.. My husband and I are both learning to play at the same time, which really gives us this extra element of discussion and sharing. My toddler son who is musically inclined enjoys hearing us play and enjoys toying with the keys a bit himself. I'm starting lessons, so there's another element of social interaction. Yet a good chunk of my playing does come after everyone else in the house is asleep so I can really focus, therefore I can enjoy the solitary side as well. Best of both worlds for me.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 08:27:19 PM »
Or just disappear from lack of short term memory.
This happens only if the composer either intends it to do so or is sufficiently careless to allow it to do so or happens not to consider (rightly or wrongly) that his/her thoughts are unworthy of recording for possible future use.

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Alistair
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Offline mr_drm

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #25 on: January 17, 2013, 11:40:13 PM »
Not lonely at all. Piano is to be played for someone. Or in preparation for someone.

(This point relates to the failure of much of 20th Century music, which was composed with no person in mind.)

Offline andreslr6

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 11:53:23 AM »
(This point relates to the failure of much of 20th Century music, which was composed with no person in mind.)

Hmm, are you sure it's failure what you meant? or were you trying to say you just don't like it?

I'm pretty sure 20th century music carries just as much in mind, if not more, than music before it.

Offline mr_drm

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 10:09:02 PM »
I should have been more precise: some 20th Century music failed in that it lacked a necessary component, namely, the intent to communicate with a person or audience. At some point, for some time, there was a trend to communicate the knowledge or skill of the composer, forgetting that there was a more important component: the listener/reciever of the message and the music.

Offline andreslr6

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #28 on: January 19, 2013, 07:12:22 AM »
I should have been more precise: some 20th Century music failed in that it lacked a necessary component, namely, the intent to communicate with a person or audience. At some point, for some time, there was a trend to communicate the knowledge or skill of the composer, forgetting that there was a more important component: the listener/reciever of the message and the music.

I was thinking of that too :P, but you can also say that that problem started when the focus changed from being the music itself to focusing on the performer, when performers started being treated, and acted as well, as superheroes, or, as GG said, gladiators in the Coliseum.

Even today people go to concerts to "see" a performer play, instead of "hearing" him/her play.

Offline outin

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #29 on: January 19, 2013, 07:57:40 AM »
I was thinking of that too :P, but you can also say that that problem started when the focus changed from being the music itself to focusing on the performer, when performers started being treated, and acted as well, as superheroes, or, as GG said, gladiators in the Coliseum.


And this phenomena already started in the previous centuries. Thinking of the famous virtuosos who toured around to show their skills and competed with each other.

Much of the 20th century music appeals to me, but then again I really do not care whether the composer wanted  to communicate with me or not, I am just interested in what the music itself does. If the composer has the skill to produce music that is substancial enough then I couldn't ask for more...

Offline ahinton

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #30 on: January 21, 2013, 10:34:06 AM »
Not lonely at all. Piano is to be played for someone. Or in preparation for someone.

(This point relates to the failure of much of 20th Century music, which was composed with no person in mind.)
Then it relates to nothing, thereby largely invalidating it. On what grounds can you credibly assert that, all of a sudden around 112 years ago, most music began to be written with no one in mind and has continued along similar lines ever since? Are you suggesting, for example, that most music of the past 112 years or so was written in disregard of its performers? If so, it has "failed" in a quite different way, on the evidence of the sheer numbers of performances of 20th century works that performers have given - surely millions of them by now...

Best,

Alistair
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline oxy60

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #31 on: January 21, 2013, 03:59:30 PM »
Yes, much of modern music does appeal to some people. Now if we could get enough of them in one place to attend/support the performance of it we might have some success.

There is a commercial aspect to the arts that can not be ignored.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #32 on: January 21, 2013, 04:40:28 PM »
My sister told me that I should step away from the piano a bit and make some friends.

I felt sooooooo salty!!! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #33 on: January 21, 2013, 06:19:22 PM »
Yes, much of modern music does appeal to some people. Now if we could get enough of them in one place to attend/support the performance of it we might have some success.

There is a commercial aspect to the arts that can not be ignored.
It can't (or perhaps shouldn't be) ignored", no, but it needs placing in proper perspective. Lots of music - including Mozart, Renaissance music, certain kinds of jazz and traditional music of various ethnicities, Brahms, John Field and heaven knows who or what else reaches much smaller audiences than does lots of pop music. As to getting sufficient people in one place who want to hear any Western "classical" music of the past 112 years or so - that includes Saint-SaŽns, Xenakis, Bartůk, Elgar, Ferneyhough, Adams, Carter and tens if not hundreds of thousands of other composers - the fact that there ARE so many composers and that so any of the works of quite a few of them have been broadcast, recorded and performed in public hardly suggests that it's quite the tiny minority interest that you and your predecessor appears to try to imply, does it?! Lots more people listen to Haydn than they do to VarŤse, but then many millions more people listen to certain pop music than listen to either.

None of this, however, is of direct relevance to the thread topic, so let's return to that!

Best,

Alistair
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Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #34 on: January 21, 2013, 07:11:16 PM »
whereas, with composition, those sounds remain confined to the head of the composer

I can think of a few instances where it would have been preferable if that was where the composition remained.

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Offline ahinton

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #35 on: January 21, 2013, 07:26:53 PM »
I can think of a few instances where it would have been preferable if that was where the composition remained.
Perhaps you are not alone in this - indeed, maybe quite a few of us could do that - but what bearing does or can that have on the loneliness or otherwise of the performer's or the composer's life by virtue of what each of them does - i.e. the thread topic?

Best,

Alistair
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #36 on: January 21, 2013, 07:31:14 PM »
BOLLOX ;D

Haven't said that for ages.

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Offline outin

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #37 on: January 21, 2013, 07:38:21 PM »
My sister told me that I should step away from the piano a bit and make some friends.

I felt sooooooo salty!!! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Now tell her that you have a lot of friends!
They are just in your computer/iPad/whatever.

Offline unholeee

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #38 on: January 21, 2013, 08:18:45 PM »
Now tell her that you have a lot of friends!
They are just in your computer/iPad/whatever.


i think its an obvious entry into meeting his sisters friends.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #39 on: January 21, 2013, 08:42:27 PM »
BOLLOX ;D

Haven't said that for ages.
Then I hope that the expression, now that you've given way thereto, makes you feel better, although its contextual relevance here remains unclear.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline oxy60

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #40 on: January 22, 2013, 05:18:42 PM »
It can't (or perhaps shouldn't be) ignored", no, but it needs placing in proper perspective. Lots of music - including Mozart, Renaissance music, certain kinds of jazz and traditional music of various ethnicities, Brahms, John Field and heaven knows who or what else reaches much smaller audiences than does lots of pop music. As to getting sufficient people in one place who want to hear any Western "classical" music of the past 112 years or so - that includes Saint-SaŽns, Xenakis, Bartůk, Elgar, Ferneyhough, Adams, Carter and tens if not hundreds of thousands of other composers - the fact that there ARE so many composers and that so any of the works of quite a few of them have been broadcast, recorded and performed in public hardly suggests that it's quite the tiny minority interest that you and your predecessor appears to try to imply, does it?! Lots more people listen to Haydn than they do to VarŤse, but then many millions more people listen to certain pop music than listen to either.

None of this, however, is of direct relevance to the thread topic, so let's return to that!

Best,

Alistair

Now, let me connect the dots.

Consider the pianist practicing to perform somewhere sometime. Does that person expect to have listeners? Does that person expect to be paid?

Solo piano concerts seem to have all but disappeared. In my city of 3 million I haven't seen one ad for a solo piano concert. 50 years ago we had several different piano series and one could choose among them.

Yes the local universities have student and graduate recitals but even those have decreased.

Yes, piano playing is a lonely activity and becoming more lonely by the minute.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline ahinton

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #41 on: January 22, 2013, 11:34:24 PM »
Now, let me connect the dots.

Consider the pianist practicing to perform somewhere sometime. Does that person expect to have listeners? Does that person expect to be paid?

Solo piano concerts seem to have all but disappeared. In my city of 3 million I haven't seen one ad for a solo piano concert. 50 years ago we had several different piano series and one could choose among them.

Yes the local universities have student and graduate recitals but even those have decreased.

Yes, piano playing is a lonely activity and becoming more lonely by the minute.
Sure, but what makes you think (if indeed it does) that it's any different (specifically any worse) for pianists than for any other instrumentalists, singers, conductors or composers? That is my point here.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline j_menz

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #42 on: January 23, 2013, 12:05:08 AM »
Now, let me connect the dots.

Consider the pianist practicing to perform somewhere sometime. Does that person expect to have listeners? Does that person expect to be paid?

Solo piano concerts seem to have all but disappeared. In my city of 3 million I haven't seen one ad for a solo piano concert. 50 years ago we had several different piano series and one could choose among them.

Yes the local universities have student and graduate recitals but even those have decreased.

Yes, piano playing is a lonely activity and becoming more lonely by the minute.

I wonder how much this has to do with the changes in the options we have to "consume" music. Recordings are now cheap, of high quality and very flexible in terms of listening options (car, home, beach etc).  The concert hasn't changed at all in that time, except that audiences are possibly less well behaved.

Why would I pay a small fortune to listen to a second rate pianist perform works that I have had no say in choosing, at a time that is not necessarily convenient, in a place not necessarily designed for comfort or readily accessible, surrounded by strangers talking, rustling, or showing all the outward symptoms of various unpleasant and contagious illnesses.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline outin

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #43 on: January 23, 2013, 03:45:04 AM »


Why would I pay a small fortune to listen to a second rate pianist perform works that I have had no say in choosing, at a time that is not necessarily convenient, in a place not necessarily designed for comfort or readily accessible, surrounded by strangers talking, rustling, or showing all the outward symptoms of various unpleasant and contagious illnesses.

I do not go to concerts because of the reasons you mention. I might want to listen to other people play live, and wouldn't even expect them to be first rate always, but I just cannot stand the concert environment...

Offline oxy60

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #44 on: January 23, 2013, 04:58:16 PM »
Alistair asks why pianists seem to be more affected. That question asks another about why symphonies and opera seem to be able to continue.

It's no easy path there either. Big money donors keep all that afloat. The galas and parties keep donors happy. Pictures of them appear in magazines. Many of those donors don't know E major from E minor but they love being associated with "their kind of people."

The only seats I could get for an opera I wanted to see were $125 (US) each and in the last row. The production company made sure I understood that my seat purchase only covered half of the total cost and the other half came from grants and donors. (A post theater dinner for the two of us at a first rate restaurant cost less than one seat!)

I know two pianists who have regular jobs. One plays jazz standards for a Sunday Brunch and the other plays show tunes and pop songs in an airport lounge.

In the past there were two big grand pianos in the dinning room of the Amstel Hotel in Amsterdam. Two guys played some light classical selections during dinner. I now hear that too has stopped.

"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline henrikhank

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #45 on: January 26, 2013, 10:38:37 AM »
What you do is you learn a love song on the piano, find the girl of your dreams and then play the song for her.

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #46 on: January 26, 2013, 05:59:31 PM »
What you do is you learn a love song on the piano, find the girl of your dreams and then play the song for her.

Without a doubt, this is the only reason to ever learn an instrument.
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline rjarsenault1101

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #47 on: January 29, 2013, 01:12:57 AM »
i find everything is slowly slipping out. ever since I got my upright piano, I find that I love to play it more, and i'm leaving my friends out of the equation.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #48 on: January 29, 2013, 01:20:19 AM »
Of course, sometimes it's not lonely enough:



There's actually a surprising amount of repertoire for this arrangement.  ::)
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Is piano a lonely activity?
«Reply #49 on: January 29, 2013, 02:13:33 AM »
Lol they all dressed the same!
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