Shubert Impromptu No. 2

[brendan765]

This is a beutiful piece, I just printed it and am going to learn it over these next few weeks.  How should Shubert be played?  Legato with no pedal or with the pedal? I'm going to start without pedal so if I do good legato I wont even have to worry about pedaling.

[p2u_]

Shubert Impromptu No. 2

Which Schubert Impromptu are you talking about, op. 90 No.2 (D. 899) or op. 142 No.2 (D. 935)?

In general: sparing use of the pedal is recommended in Schubert's music. Completely without pedal, it may sound "too dry", depending on the instrument, the location. Your technique (= touch and musical abilities) MUST be virtuoso level.

Paul

[brendan765]

Which Schubert Impromptu are you talking about, op. 90 No.2 (D. 899) or op. 142 No.2 (D. 935)?

In general: sparing use of the pedal is recommended in Schubert's music. Completely without pedal, it may sound "too dry", depending on the instrument, the location. Your technique (= touch and musical abilities) MUST be virtuoso level.

Paul

I'm not exactly a virtuoso, but im good with legato

[brendan765]

I don't know if this is true, but it seems like you should use less pedal, sometimes no pedal on descending passages, but if you're in an ascending passage then it sounds fine with more pedal.

[j_menz]

I don't know if this is true, but it seems like you should use less pedal, sometimes no pedal on descending passages, but if you're in an ascending passage then it sounds fine with more pedal.

I don't think it's always true and certainly not a rule, but there are three (at least) factors that could lean things in that direction:

1) Lower notes have more sustain than higher ones. That means a descending passage will go from clear to muddy and an ascending one from muddy to clear.

2) Pianos are often better at creating overtones than undertones. That means that on descending passages, the overtones will be more similar in volume to the residual notes and there is a potential for clashes.

3) Crescendos more often go up and decrescendos more often go down. Thus, going up the clearer upper notes ring out over the residue, whereas going down, even though they're softer, the new notes tend to bury the leftovers diminishing the effect of the decrescendo.

[andreslr6]

Legato with no pedal or with the pedal? I'm going to start without pedal so if I do good legato I wont even have to worry about pedaling.

The purpose of the pedal is NOT to achieve legato, it´s just for creating effects, j_menz has described some of it´s advantages. Maybe you can say you use it to sustain a chord or a note that´s impossible to hold without pedal because of the range, etc. that´s the closest it will get to aid you to play legato, and still, that´s what the middle pedal is for. Anyway, using pedal to achieve legato is cheating, the only thing you´ll get from that is bad habits and you´ll never solve the problems you seem to "solve" by using the pedal.

[iansinclair]

In my humble (?) opinion, any of the Schubert impromptus -- and, for that matter, most music -- should be learned first, and brought up to near performance technical accuracy and speed, including a clear distinction between legato, detached, and stacatto notes, without the use of the sustain pedal.  I do not always practice what I preach...

I might note that there are occasions where certain passages are simply not possible without a very discreet use of the sustain pedal.

Once that is done, then as you start to add interpretation to technique you can also begin to add sustain pedal where it seems to belong.  Sometimes this will be to allow a series of notes to meld (Op. 90 #3, parts (but sparingly) of Op. 90 #4).  Sometimes it will be to change the tone colour of a particular chord or note (for example -- in Op. 90 #4 I depress the sustain pedal just before each of the two closing chords, but hold it and my hands only just as long as they are notated).  Etc...

[slobone]

I agree you should never use the pedal as a crutch when you're learning the notes, you should be able to execute legato passages without it. But on the other hand, if you wait too long before starting to work with the pedal, you may find it hard to get used to the timing between your foot and your fingers. It varies with the individual, I guess.

[j_menz]

I tend to start with way too much pedal and whittle it down as I get more comfortable with a piece.  As long as the approach you use gets you to the right place, either is OK. If you use pedal to cover fundamental flaws (as opposed to the sort of temporary ones that crop up in sight reading), though, you need to fix those or you will always be pedalling inappropriately.

[brendan765]

I agree you should never use the pedal as a crutch when you're learning the notes, you should be able to execute legato passages without it. But on the other hand, if you wait too long before starting to work with the pedal, you may find it hard to get used to the timing between your foot and your fingers. It varies with the individual, I guess.

I'm really good at copying examples...my teacher will play something for me and if I'm listening I can usually play it right after her example.

[p2u_]

I'm really good at copying examples...my teacher will play something for me and if I'm listening I can usually play it right after her example.

In that case, I suggest you take this as your example:

Paul

[j_menz]

Or for one with about the least pedal that can be done:

[brendan765]

Or for one with about the least pedal that can be done:

I think it should be a little more connected with that in places, and that's where the pedal comes in.