Are scales really important and how can I build up correctly with little time ?

[kriatina]

Hello,
I am a keen beginner but as an adult I don't have that much time as I would love to have
to learn how to play the piano and I am wondering if "working on" the scales every time I start playing is really that important
or would I really lose out in "the long run" if I forget about the scales?

I also have been wondering how to build up correctly because my little repertoire is about one hour and on many days I only have about half an hour for my me-time on the piano.

How can I keep my little "repertoire" without forgetting how to play the pieces
in that little time and how can I continue to learn new pieces?

What would be the most constructive way to go about this?

Unfortunately I am without a teacher.

Thank you very much for your thoughts,

Kristina.

[matt_walker]

Firstly, I think you could safely leave a few of your pieces for weekly practise - you'll find you don't need to play your entire repertoire every day to remember it.

Are scales important? Yes. How important depends how good you want to be. By the time Rachmaninoff graduated he could play the 60 Hanon exercises in every key. That's why he was so accomplished. Gift is only a small part; you get out what you put in.

As a beginner, you need only spend a few minutes each day running through scales, 2 octaves, both hands. The fact is, most students never bother to practise them much.

[kriatina]

Thank you, Matt,
your thoughts make good sense.
I shall keep on working on the scales
and I shall leave my easiest pieces alone for a while and keep on learning.

Thanks again from Kristina.

[p2u_]

Are scales important? Yes. How important depends how good you want to be. By the time Rachmaninoff graduated he could play the 60 Hanon exercises in every key. That's why he was so accomplished. Gift is only a small part; you get out what you put in.

In contrast, I'd like to say the following: Rachmaninoff was one of the greatest admirers of Leopold Godowsky, who NEVER practised scales. Still, when the latter played scales in works of art, he did that with such a brilliance, evenness, speed, and beauty of tone that he had no equals. Clearly, the secret of good technique lies in the mind, not in the fingers...

Paul

[castrojs]

You may find this discussion on scales useful -

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.0

[j_menz]

Leopold Godowsky, who NEVER practised scales.

I like him even more now. 

[ajspiano]

In contrast, I'd like to say the following: Rachmaninoff was one of the greatest admirers of Leopold Godowsky, who NEVER practised scales. Still, when the latter played scales in works of art, he did that with such a brilliance, evenness, speed, and beauty of tone that he had no equals. Clearly, the secret of good technique lies in the mind, not in the fingers...

Paul

While I agree, I have this suspicion that Leopold had a fundamental understanding of scales and their relationship to "keys" - even if he didnt spend too much time trying to physically playing them 4 octaves up and down like a drone.

[ajspiano]

How can I keep my little "repertoire" without forgetting how to play the pieces
in that little time and how can I continue to learn new pieces?

What would be the most constructive way to go about this?

If sufficiently learnt, your pieces will hold surprisingly well in your mind even if you don't play them for a reasonable amount of time (I find things are quite strong despite a 5+ year hiatus) And if (they will) do get "lost" you will be able to re-learn them EXTREMELY quickly comparitively to the first time around..

This learn, forget, re-learn process will also cement them even further in your mind.

........

Scales are certainly of value to you, - the question is rather what kind of value.. and if you are expecting to master you scales technically and that will in turn make you a good pianist you're chasing something that will ultimately waste a lot of your time.. It is but one piece of the pie.

Familiarity with scale like patterns (similar motion scales are just one of these) in all keys will help you with having a feel for the configurations of notes that generally appear in said keys..  but, in the literature, while there are "scale passages" there is rarely an exact standard scale with the exact standard fingering..  so in reality, while you need to understand and know the notes in a scale, playing the scale will not solve the technical problems in your pieces.. the real solution arrives when you have played countless variants of scale notes/patterns with numerous fingerings.. this is best found simply playing pieces. Which provides the added advantage of being "musical" - by which I mean there is room for dynamic variation in the notes with a genuine emotional intent..   which is a VERY big piece of the "good pianist pie"

You can find some very scalar passages in clementi's sonatinas as a start. - though I have Zero idea whether you are ready for that or beyond that based on your post.

........

The real value of scales is in that they are the SIMPLEST and EASIEST way to familiarise yourself with ALL the available tonal options within a KEY...  That is that a firm understanding of these "collections" of notes will improve your reading, understanding of harmony, improvisation/composition..   however that requires are more in depth approach to their study than simply playing them them in similar motion. It is about understanding them not being able to play them.

[brogers70]

When I first started playing, scales were quite helpful to me, they got me used to the patterns of notes in different keys, and taught me to coordinate my hands. For the first few years I did scales in all keys every day to get started.

Then for some years, I really cut back on scales and found that I learned more by working on repertoire and not fussing with the scales. It seemed to me that the athletic accomplishment of doing fast, even scales in all keys was not that applicable to real pieces of music.

But now I have a very good teacher who is working with me on small changes in posture, weight, relaxation, wrist motions, and other mechanical aspects to making a good tone. So I spend lots of time doing scales because they are so simple that I can do them over and over aiming for the right physical sensations, correct posture, sensation of weight on the keys and all that; and then once I get the right feeling, I can just repeat for several minutes until my body can remember the "right" feeling for the correct motions. And that does seem to carry over into repertoire pretty well.

So depending on your goals and where you are at scales could either be very important or just a waste of time. A teacher could help you figure that out, probably in just a few lessons.

[kriatina]

Thank you all very much for your kind advice, it is very much appreciated.

There is a great deal to think about and I’ll have to work it out in accordance 
with my own way of playing and my own aims.

Playing the scales or not playing the scales and to what degree
seems a personal issue and I’ll have to find my way forward from here.

Thank you very much for responding.

Kind regards from Kristina.