Hello friends!,my 4th and 5th fingers are too slow...(right hand) - 1st,2nd,3rd are good, they can play, what i want, but these fingers are for me BIG problem :-). Dont you know any exercises for "faster" fingers ?
Now, lifting the fingers high in order to gain speed, is a complete waste of time. Sorry, but it is. You need more agility, rather than strength. If you imagine yourself walking, and want to walk faster, do you rise your knees and legs higher? No! There we go.
[rant mode on]Your analogue doesn't work maitea and is not conclusive evidence that finger lifting is necessarily harmful or a "waste of time". It may be something this particular student is not served with right now, but you should be careful with generalisations. As a matter of fact, sprinters do high-knee-lifting exercises to isolate certain steps in the process of running and to increase general performance, and they do that quite a lot.As far as piano playing is concerned, Grigory Sokolov lifts his fingers very much indeed and even during performance. Cyprien Katsaris (a real acrobat on the piano) recommends it regularly in his masterclasses on YouTube. The point is that you don't do this to "gain strength". It is a very difficult exercise in coordination and in relaxing muscles that are NOT used. You don't "hit" the keys down; the fingers rather "fall" or gently swing into the key with virtually no physical force.[rant mode off]Paul
Now, in piano playing, to play runs, we don't need to cover big leaps (as in running), we just need to play the consecutive note at a given(-fast) time, then the next etc. For that reason, rising your fingers, increase the amount of effort and slows you down and it is for the purpose of running itself ineffectice. Maybe in a certain passage, you prefer the sound or the articulation you create with high fingers? That's ok. And maybe some people have great runs with high fingers, but you don't run because of it, more, you probably run fast with high fingers despite it.
I found The Art of Piano Playing by G. Kochevitsky, https://www.amazon.com/Art-Piano-Playing-George-Kochevitsky/dp/0874870682 a great read, which covers many of the pedagogical practices in piano technique through history. Not everyone had it right.
In the central nervous system, reciprocal relations exist between flexors (bending muscles) and extensors (straightening muscles). The intense excitation of flexors will call forth intense inhibition of extensors, and vice versa. Since the inhibitory process is weaker than the process of excitation, a slight raising of the fingers (intense excitation of extensors) before their descent into the keys appears to be a valuable means for strengthening weak inhibition of flexors. The tendency to rush, to accelerate passages is observed mostly among students who are not used to raising their fingers while practicing. Now we see one more reason for the requirement of raising fingers in slow practicing.
Not sure why you get so defensive.
a "slight" rising of the fingers! not high fingers
I don't wish to intrude on the conversation, but I think I can cast a different view perhaps.
In my opinions, "high fingers" is really a misnomer.
What we really want in training i.e. practicing, is greater range of motion.
So "high finger" playing really does not do justice to the elements involved in real training, and is but a small part of the whole, IMHO.
One doesn't really need to practice for speed.
their distorted view.Indeed. It is mostly people who try to acquire "technique" (mechanics), thereby neglecting the musical sound image, that get into trouble. Strictly physical exercises are necessary SOMETIMES as a form of therapy, but I recommend doing them mostly away from the instrument.
Indeed. No amount of training will make the individual fingers faster than they already were at birth. A clear sound-movement image, convenience and control; that's all we should strive for; the rest is for nature to take care of and we should never force this development.
and Taubmanites do the same for the finger-lifting thing, often adding pseudo-scientific talk to support their distorted view.
Interesting that you would say that because this is my experience as well. Trying to do "exercise" on the piano only causes me more tensions. It seems that I get best results by doing any mechanical exercise away from the piano and concentrate on sound production while at the piano.
I always told you you were a genius colleague of mine, but you never believe me.
Which is an odd perspective considering how blatantly Edna demonstrates raised fingers throughout the rotation lecture.
Action and Reaction in Piano Technique 2.
I didnt watch it through yet, - My gut reaction is that his ideas might change a little if he lowered his piano bench by an inch or so.
The most extreme viewpoint against the "finger school" I have seen is by J Michael O'Reilly from Dublin.
Scales! Nothing is better than scales. (My opinion)
Playing fluent scales is not the cause of good technique; it is the RESULT.Paul[/quoteThe man wishes to strengthen his 4th and 5th finger, and gain speed for playing solo and in general. I can't think of anything better to do then scales.
The man wishes to strengthen his 4th and 5th finger, and gain speed for playing solo and in general. I can't think of anything better to do then scales.
Hello friends!,i would like to ask... I want to play faster songs, but u know, the problem are my fingers... (surprisingly). I have been playing the piano 1 year, BUT I played the keyboard 3 years...(keyboards and piano are different musical intruments... who dont try, he cannot know, what i am talking about.). The problem is, if i wanted to play faster song - I mean, keyboard solo for example or faster piano song, my 4th and 5th fingers are too slow...(right hand) - 1st,2nd,3rd are good, they can play, what i want, but these fingers are for me BIG problem :-). Dont you know any exercises for "faster" fingers ? I got notes "School of velocity" ... but here is problem, that i havent any hope to play this in the written tempo... so, i must play it very very slow... Can you give me some advices ? If you know exerciSes for fingers, where I dont need piano or something that :-D (In the school for exemple ) Thank you so much !
Rather than thinking of your 4th and 5th fingers as too slow or too weak compared to 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, fingers just think of your fingers as having different capabilities that need to be coordinated. You will never make your 4th and 5th fingers as strong as your other fingers, but you can make them coordinated.
Having purchased the Taubman technique videos, I must say that I concur with those who say lifting the fingers as high as possible is not only a waste of energy, but has the potential of causing injury. Much of the movement should originate in the forearm first, then wrist and last the fingers.
I haven't seen Taubman videos, but saying that the movement originates in the forearm, sounds like a dangerous notion to me.
And to have the adequate technical plasticity, i believe you must have the sound idea first, not the other way round...what do you think?
Our local scientist Nyiregyhazi will most likely stress that ears alone is not enough; one also needs a good image of 1) what causes tone, 2) exactly how much it takes to produce this or that tone quality, and 3) in what direction the key should be moved. For example not straight downward but slightly diagonally forward into the key tends to give much more control, etc.
I hate to sound overly like a cult follower.. but the taubman bashing shows a complete misunderstanding of what they are trying to get across.
...If you see through the "finger-school-is-always-bad" spirit of the cult-like clips..
2. Practice your scales and arpeggios... in staccato. Use a particular type of staccato: raise your entire arm before pressing the key and try to get as fat, ugly, and jarring a sound as you can.
Some other tips1. Learn all 30 Inventions and Sinfonias, BWV 772-801. I am serious. Granted, each pieces are usually 1~2 minutes long, maximum 4~5. Make sure to be immaculately articulate when you play these; otherwise, you defeat the purpose of learning these pieces.
Bach is always great! No question, but if there are unaddressed motoric issues, tension etc, that won't solve the problem by itself. Though always a better option than drilling excercises with no musical purpuse!(though again, these might be very helpful sometimes..! it just depends!) I'm fascinated by how we go on an on in this thread! Like pianists relentless Night night
Topic: Training for faster fingers 