Mozart: Fantasy in d minor

[pianovirus]

Comments/criticism welcome!

[birba]

I am very curious as to what edition you are using.  It's the first time i've ever heard it like this.  I'm talking about the ending, of course.  I went to imslp and couldn't find it.  It throws the whole fantasy into a different light.
You do a lot of things i don't care for.  And i play the allegretto a little faster.  But i have to say this is one of the most convincing performances of this fantasy i've ever heard.  You have that "klang" tone which i enjoy in mozart.  And your phrasing is perfect.  I was really fascinated from the very beginning.  And then that ending!  Wierd.  

[dcstudio]

 But i have to say this is one of the most convincing performances of this fantasy i've ever heard.  You have that "klang" tone which i enjoy in mozart.  And your phrasing is perfect.  I was really fascinated from the very beginning.  And then that ending!  Wierd.  

I love your expression!! I believed it--and I too was fascinated.   Few students really explore this one--I rushed through it way back in college and crammed it into a jury...  WOW...  great job at letting us know you are enjoying what you are playing.

maybe now this piece won't remind me of that horrible dark movie with Will Smith--Seven Pounds.

WONDERFUL DRAMATIC PERFORMANCE look forward to hearing more from you!  thanks for sharing.

[emill]

maybe now this piece won't remind me of that horrible dark movie with Will Smith--Seven Pounds.
WONDERFUL DRAMATIC PERFORMANCE look forward to hearing more from you!  thanks for sharing.

you can say that again!!!   but beautifully played!

emill

[dcstudio]

you can say that again!!!  but beautifully played!

emill

...guy kills himself with a jellyfish...after "fixing the Heidleberg in the garage" --both literally and figuratively --- and Woody as the blind vegetarian Jewish pianist who sells pork as a telemarketer ...please...

thank you so much for removing that image from my mind!!!!

Don't text and drive...  PSA

and again--GREAT PERFORMANCE  

[mikey6]

Nice atmosphere at the beginning, but I wonder if it gets to heavy, into 4, bars 7-8 as it's marked cut time - I know you're emphasising the Rh line but perhaps try to keep it moving.
Being picky on control but harmonically end of bar 8-9, the d leads to the c# (the LH 'A' comes trough too strong) and loses some of the resolution which makes me think that perhaps you're hanging around at the start of bar 10 a bit too much - I'm sure it could work but it's not convincing me yet.
Watch the rhythm of all the 'small' notes once the adagio starts, they agitate the theme where I think it doesn't call for it.  If it were a tragic aria, one would probably do the opposite and almost stretch them.  Plus Mozart has marked the ' sign over them to emphasise those notes further.
Bar 16, watch length of Bb.
Why speed up at bar 18? I guess you want to move it along but it needs to be integrated somehow.
Steady through the crescendi in 26, 27, 33.
Can the presto be a bit more spontaneous? You shape each group the same.  More of a cresc and direction at the end to the top eb.
b37, perhaps too much pause - it adds on more than another beat.
watch pedal at b44 presto.
From a visual pov,can you connect the last amaj chord into the allegretto? Harmonically it's connected yet putting your hands in your lap goes against that.
At the Allegretto, I wonder if you can get a more or a 'fingertip' sound? it's a nice sound but could have more definition to it.  Also again watch the quick notes - they're rushed over when they contain the character.
b59, can there be more of an immediate character change?
The final cadence before the second half sounds a bit matter of fact, don't lose interest in the melody, keep it alive.  (you may not, but that's what it sounds like to the listener)
The second haf sounds a bit heavy and 'notey' -  can you vary articulation, colour, longer line?
steady rhythm from b70 onwards
b86, pedal again
There's some differences in dynamics, not sure if that's down to editions so won't comment on those.
Atm, the most obvious thing is the rhythm which can be quite unstable.  It tends to surge with a cresc.  I know it's a fantasie and there is room for rubato/rhythmic freedom but as long as it's organically built from what comes before.  Yours tends to surge for a beat or more and it takes a while to regain the pulse.
I know Mozart is phenomenally difficult to control but watch at 3:57 how your whole body moves forward and the sound blows out, so you could concentrate on controlling the sound from the fingertips (whilst keeping everything else free - gross generalisation!)

Just some suggestions. Mozart is dam hard - every note stands out so they all have to cared for.  Listen to every one even if they are quick and supposedly not as important (though they probably are!)

[dcstudio]

very nicely and constructively said...good to see that here--people can get sooo mean.

[hakki]

But i have to say this is one of the most convincing performances of this fantasy i've ever heard.  You have that "klang" tone which i enjoy in mozart.  And your phrasing is perfect.  I was really fascinated from the very beginning.

Sorry I have to disagree.

OK, it is a nice performance. Also, it is obvious that the work has been practiced meticulously.

But, to be realistic, constructive and helpful to the performer, I have to admit that there some issues with the rhythm , tempo, accents, pedaling and phrasing.

Thanks to mikey that he has pointed out some of these.

[birba]

Back in the paleolithic age when i was in conservatory,  i heard kempff in an all- mozart concert.  Sitting next to me was a friend with score in hand following this most magical evening.  I was enthralled.  The extemporaneous and vivid musical quality of his playing astounded me.  But all my freind could get out of the evening was how kempff did NOT follow the score - rhythm, dynamics, notes(!) were completely arbitrary according to him.
As i said, there were many things i didn't care for in mr. Pianovirus' interpretation and i could have gone through the piece measure by measure pointing them out, but nonetheless he convinced me.  Isn't this what it's all about?.  On the other hand, in music, many times one man's garbage is another man's treasure.
But up to now, no one has mentioned the ending that Mr. Pianoman played.  Or maybe ive been living under stephen king's glass dome and this is normal?!  I wish someone could explain this.

[p2u_]

But up to now, no one has mentioned the ending that Mr. Pianoman played.  Or maybe ive been living under stephen king's glass dome and this is normal?!  I wish someone could explain this.

This is the same ending Mitsuko Uchida plays. I don't know who composed it and I feel it's not in Mozart's style. That is the weird part. On the other hand, the "usual" ending doesn't seem to be Mozart's either; Mozart left the work unfinished.

Paul

[birba]

Thank you!  I've not only been living under a glass dome (don't listen much to Ms. Uchida) but i'm also considerably ignorant!  I went wikipedia know-it-all and there's a sort of p.s. at the end of the article.  That mozart may have  written only the first 100 bars and the ending might be by a certain Mr. Muller.  Maybe Ms. Uchida wrote the ending.  VERY interesting.  That would be  neat if each one of us could write our own personal ending.

[p2u_]

Thank you!  I've not only been living under a glass dome (don't listen much to Ms. Uchida) but i'm also considerably ignorant!

Well, we can't know everything, can we? I didn't bother going to wikipedia, otherwise I had known it was Mr. Müller who composed the traditional ending.
P.S.: There is a topic on pianoworld.com where they even display Uchida's notes as a .jpg-image (post # 3): Uchida's ending to Mozart's D minor Fantasy. Happy reading!

Paul

[birba]

Well, i went to look at my henle urtex edition and there's no mention of the fantasy being unfinished.  Maybe it's a recent discovery.  At any rate the fantasy itself is only about 110 measures long, so i don't really see where it was left incomplete, according to wikipedia.

[p2u_]

Well, i went to look at my henle urtex edition and there's no mention of the fantasy being unfinished.  Maybe it's a recent discovery.  At any rate the fantasy itself is only about 110 measures long, so i don't really see where it was left incomplete, according to wikipedia.

As far as I know, the manuscript was lost, so we will never know for sure.

Paul

[birba]

Thanks for the pianoworld site.  Yes, only the last ten measures were left incomplete.  But, if we're to take the allegretto as mozart's intention, i would maybe elaborate on it to make it less "perfunctory", rather then doing away with it completely.  I prefer this light optomistic contrast to the tragic adagio.

[p2u_]

But, if we're to take the allegretto as mozart's intention, i would maybe elaborate on it to make it less "perfunctory", rather then doing away with it completely.  I prefer this light optomistic contrast to the tragic adagio.

I think even Mozart himself would agree with you. I don't want to downplay her talents, but Uchida's solution leaves me with disappointment, and original Mozart is NEVER disappointing...

Paul

[pianoplunker]

Comments/criticism welcome!

I really enjoyed your interpretation of this piece. It has just as much character as any other interpretation I have heard.  The ending is interesting and a bold departure from the "published" ending which Mozart never wrote anyhow.  I appreciate that and think it was a great idea, but somehow I feel the ending should be bright rather than dark like the beginning but that it just my interpretation. Great job with a great piece of music

[pianovirus]

Thanks everyone for listening and for the many thoughtful and constructive comments/advice which I'll consider in my practicing.

Regarding the ending (I didn't want to give a "spoiler" in the initial post already): As mentioned in the Wiener Urtext Edition (and probably Henle, too?), the "traditional" ending (from measure 98) is not from Mozart, but from a guy called August Eberhard Müller. The original title of the Fantasy was "Fantaisie d'Introduction" so it may be possible that the fantasy itself actually ended on the dominant in measure 97. Unlike the c minor fantasy we don't know of course what should come afterwards...

In any case, I always found that harmless traditional ending very unsatisfactory. After the dark brooding beginning, I don't understand the D major part as a "resolution", but rather as an episode, maybe a memory. Afterwards (at least for my usual mood ;-)) I want everything to go back to from where it started. The good thing for us is that with the ending not from Mozart anyways we can do whatever we want. For now I chose Uchida's ending, but I think it would be a great chance for anyone to try and come up with something very personal by themselves. Still, I think it's just as valid for anyone with a different conception of the piece to come up with a more optimistic resolution, or to choose the traditional version.

[pianoplunker]

Thanks everyone for listening and for the many thoughtful and constructive comments/advice which I'll consider in my practicing.

Regarding the ending (I didn't want to give a "spoiler" in the initial post already): As mentioned in the Wiener Urtext Edition (and probably Henle, too?), the "traditional" ending (from measure 98) is not from Mozart, but from a guy called August Eberhard Müller. The original title of the Fantasy was "Fantaisie d'Introduction" so it may be possible that the fantasy itself actually ended on the dominant in measure 97. Unlike the c minor fantasy we don't know of course what should come afterwards...

In any case, I always found that harmless traditional ending very unsatisfactory. After the dark brooding beginning, I don't understand the D major part as a "resolution", but rather as an episode, maybe a memory. Afterwards (at least for my usual mood ;-)) I want everything to go back to from where it started. The good thing for us is that with the ending not from Mozart anyways we can do whatever we want. For now I chose Uchida's ending, but I think it would be a great chance for anyone to try and come up with something very personal by themselves. Still, I think it's just as valid for anyone with a different conception of the piece to come up with a more optimistic resolution, or to choose the traditional version.

I have always thought the Muller ending is unbelievably shallow compared to the rest of the piece - so un-inspiring I always forget the exact ending .  . I may try it with a gentle  dminor improvised blues riff after the last dominant. Make it dark but sweet. Thanks for taking the time to share this. sometimes one can learn so much from these forums

[birba]

sometimes one can learn so much from these forums

Hear hear!
Pianovirus has made a great point.  The fact that it was perhaps an intro to a sonata does open it to different possibilities.  We've  grown accustomed to hear it as a "little gem" unto itself.  It would be interesting to hear it as an intro perhaps, to the big d major sonata, K. 574(?), re- writing the ending.  I don't think mozart would have minded...

[p2u_]

Hear hear!
Pianovirus has made a great point.  The fact that it was perhaps an intro to a sonata does open it to different possibilities.  We've  grown accustomed to hear it as a "little gem" unto itself.  It would be interesting to hear it as an intro perhaps, to the big d major sonata, K. 574(?), re- writing the ending.  I don't think mozart would have minded...

No man can lift this stone... ever.

P.S.: I find that whenever this piece is played, it is often not the ending alone that is unsatisfactory. When and architect like Emil Gilels reconstructs this Fantasy with great beauty, simplicity and logic, I have no doubt at all that the ending as we know it is OK as it is: Emil Gilels - Mozart. Fantasia in d-moll KV 397

Paul

[pianovirus]

It would be interesting to hear it as an intro perhaps, to the big d major sonata, K. 574(?), re- writing the ending.

Actually, exactly this possibility (I guess you mean K. 576) is also mentioned in the foreword of the Wiener Urtext edition (though they also say there's no historical evidence that Mozart himself had thought about this pairing in a way he thought about coupling c minor fantasy and c minor sonata).

[jollisg]

You play it really well. I haven't heard that ending before. I would suggest a few things though:

Please, don't have your neck horizontal with the floor. It's really bad for the neck, you won't play any better and it don't look that professional :/

In some places it looks like you pull upp your shoulders and "hit" the keys. I would be more aware of that, if i were you.

I really like your interpretation

[dcstudio]

You play it really well. I haven't heard that ending before. I would suggest a few things though:

Please, don't have your neck horizontal with the floor. It's really bad for the neck, you won't play any better and it don't look that professional :/

In some places it looks like you pull upp your shoulders and "hit" the keys. I would be more aware of that, if i were you.

I really like your interpretation

very good advice---oooooh I wish I had paid more attention to my instructors on this element...

I always imagined Mozart improvising this one... exploring...  I like the way you brought that across. :

[pianovirus]

very good advice

Yes indeed! Actually, I'm quite stunned by the amount of friendly constructive feedback here on PS! (I was only active on the German piano forum for a while...)

Please, don't have your neck horizontal with the floor. It's really bad for the neck, you won't play any better and it don't look that professional :/

In some places it looks like you pull upp your shoulders and "hit" the keys. I would be more aware of that, if i were you.

True!! It's always hard to get rid of bad habits, but one key is being reminded of them. Thanks!