Chord relations

[dwpiano]

Hello,
I'm new here, and was looking for information on chord relations to certain notes. Are there patterns of some sort that make certain notes/chords sound good together? I broke down and observed the piece I was playing, and noticed the chords used were often a third and a fourth together, broken up. For example, D FG. D F I know is a third, and D G a fourth.
I'd like to compose a piece, yet I have no clue how to put chords with it!
ANy help is appreciated
-Dwpiano

[agajewski]

Pretty much it goes along the scales. You use notes that are part of the scale you play.

For example, if you play in C, you could come up with a nice melody while using only white keys. When playing in a key of G, you use all white keys except for F which would be sharp.

I would recommend studying circle of fifths and some harmonization theory

Pretty much all you need for a good song are four chords: I-IV-V-vi

Some very commonly used chord progressions in 95% of pop music in key of C:

C F Am G

C G Am F

C F G

Don't believe me? Check this out:

As to harmonizing: https://composerfocus.com/how-to-harmonize-a-melody/

[nystul]

When we have a moving melody line over a chord, some notes of melody should be part of the harmony.  There may also be melody notes that are not part of the harmony.  If there is a jump between melody notes, those are often chord notes.  Non-chord notes in the melody are often immediately followed (or at least preceded) by a chord note a step away.  For example, an F might appear in the melody over a C major chord, but it is likely to be immediately followed by an E or a G.  Left on its own, the F would sound very dissonant against a C major chord as if it were supposed to be an E and someone hit the wrong note.  But if it leads to E or G it could sound very good.

I am oversimplifying a bit here, but this principle should give you some clue as to a few chords that might work with a certain part of your melody.  Then you could pick which one fits your melody by trial and error.  At that point you can start to consider what makes a strong progression in terms of chord sequences.  For example, in C major, you might often have a melody where D minor or F major chord could both work (say the melody has F and A as potential chord notes).  If the next chord is G, maybe either choice will sound good.  But if the next chord is C, the D minor probably won't work.

[banof]

First try out some simple triads (C Major/ Minor and so on) with your melody. This just takes some practice and some messing around to see what sounds good.

If you want to make it sophisticated like in your piece:
Well Yes, there actually is a way to tell which notes will go well with other notes.
This is by using "sophisticated" chords. For example, C major is C - E - G. (first, third, fifth) However, if you follow the same pattern, you will end up with a B or Bb (7th). Follow this pattern further and you will get D, then F, then A. (9th, 11th 13th). Obviously if you play all these notes out, as C-E-G-B-D-F-A, it will sound horrible. The trick is to mess around with it to end up in a good way. Obviously you could start simply and play simple chords (regular C Major) with the right hand, but as in the example you gave with the notes you played, classical music is all about the sophistication and depth of the sound. You see, if you do what I did above, you can find out what your chord was. He didn't think of putting a 4th and a 3rd together, that would be too complicated. He simply started with G major. G-B-D (first, third,fifth) and added a seventh (F).
The total notes would be G-B-D-F. This would still be pretty simple and would not get the desired sound, so he messed around with the order. He put D first, then F, then G, and left out the B. Now compare the original chord to this one. They look nothing alike, and the one in piece sounds much better. So if you want to use good harmonies, just use 7ths 9ths 11ths, on top of the original chords and mess around. Make sure to have fun with it though, because writing music should be enjoying!

- My experience - Im only 16 but I've written hundreds of pieces, classical and non classical.

[dwpiano]

Thank you! This is extremely helpful, since I've never really have anyone explain to me how to write a song without just using block chords, which often don't sound that great by themselves anyway
I didn't really understand[although I knew what they were] the importance of 9th, 11th, etc, but now I do!
Oh, and about the 'using notes from the scale', I've seen pieces that are in a certain key yet use notes outside of that key. How are you then playing in that key if you don't use those notes? How can you actually know what key you're playing in?
Thank you again, you all have been very helpful!
-Dwpiano

[iansinclair]

Oh, and about the 'using notes from the scale', I've seen pieces that are in a certain key yet use notes outside of that key. How are you then playing in that key if you don't use those notes? How can you actually know what key you're playing in?
-Dwpiano

In almost all harmonic systems (we'll just skip twelve tone here, thank you!) there will be a very definite sense of "home" in the music, and that sense of "home" is what defines the key -- which is, after all, just a conventional arrangement of sharps or flats to give the desired scale.  A piece of music will, almost always, define "home" in two ways.  First, the melody -- assuming there is one -- will be arranged to start on the home note -- the key note, if you will -- or less commonly on the fifth above that or the fourth below.  Not inflexible, but pretty common.  Second, it will almost always end on one of those three notes.  The second way is by the harmonic structure; the "home" clear chord -- called the tonic -- contains the home note, the third (major or minor) above that, and the fifth above the home; in C major, it would be C, E, and G.  Now those three notes can be arranged in any order you like, or doubled; played as a chord or an arpeggio or broken chord.  It doesn't matter.  In most harmonic systems (not all -- and this is where different cultures get different qualities to their music!) the second most important chord is the dominant, which is like the home chord, but a fifth higher -- in C major, the dominant would be G, B, D.  To  many western ears, the dominant leads naturally to the tonic.  The third principle chord is the subdominant, which is like the tonic (again) but based a fourth higher, rather than a fifth -- F, A, C in our example.

There are, of course inumerable other possibilities, and a good book in theory covers some of them.  Also, some other cultures may use other chords as leading chords.

Clear as mud.  Sorry.  It's a big topic!

[banof]

Oh, and about the 'using notes from the scale', I've seen pieces that are in a certain key yet use notes outside of that key. How are you then playing in that key if you don't use those notes? How can you actually know what key you're playing in?
Thank you again, you all have been very helpful!
-Dwpiano

Actually as time goes on in classical music. (From classical to romantic to late romantic), there is progressively more stepping out of key. Listen to late romantic music - especially rachmaninoff and Scriabin. They are perfect examples of composers whose music is still very beautiful but are rich in harmonies, (they step out of the home key so much its hard to even hear the original key in some pieces).
For you: It is a bundle of experience and experimenting that leads to using notes outside of the scale. I am currently writing an etude which is in C major. Yet I use many sharps. It has to do with how much dissonance you like. For example a person that doesn't like it all will play F major (F A C) with a C in the right hand. But if you want to step a bit out of key, you might raise the F to an F sharp for an F sharp diminished. This sounds good too, but its all about context. You cant just throw that in there. You have to know how to make it flow, which is where the experience and messing around with it comes in. It also works, through minor/major 7ths, 9ths, 11ths,and 13ths. They can be out of key (if im in C major and use a Bb [minor 7th]) youd just have to make it flow. (this is what makes the great composers, so great)
Honestly, A very good piece for understanding this is Rachmaninoff's Etude Tableaux Op. 33 No. 2.
Its in C major yet look how much he steps out of key.

I would highly suggest listening to a crapload of classical music and playing a of other peoples music to write better yourself.
I used to write a lot of pop music (Not like modern pop, but just like piano pieces that had horrible harmonies [stayed in key, used chords in regular positions] like yanni and such) and then i started listening to classical music alllllllll the time, and started playing a lot more of other peoples music. When you play others' music, subconsciously your brain remembers the chords and how to use them, so that when it comes time for you to write, you will know how to use it. (dont expect to play the chord once and then use it in all your pieces..it takes time and practice) Even now, Ive gotten to the point where when i listen to a piece and I hear an amazing chord, I print out the music and just play that one chord to see what it was.

But- if you really want to be a good composer, it all comes down to listening a lot (and i dont mean like listen when doing work. I mean sitting down with your laptop in your lap and doing nothing but listening),Playing a lot (analyze the chords your playing - which i see you already do) and just MESSING AROUND a lot. Try out new things. Expiriment. Be very very very creative, because thats where brilliance is.

Remember: not many of the pieces that composers wrote came down by "divine inspiration." Beethoven was said to play hours upon hours aday of just improvisation, and if he'd find something he liked, he'd work on that. And that was Beethoven!
Again, I hoped this helped. : )

[benzwm02]

The best theory book you have is your ear. In the end there is no real harmonic system so try to figure out what sounds good and what doesn't to you personally.