Chopin's Op. 53 Polonaise in A-flat major (Heroic Polonaise)

[azbroolah]

I'm considering adding this piece to my repertoire, but I'm not really sure what to expect with it. I'm not a student of music, although I'm learning piano at a decently advanced level (for comparison, the most difficult piece I've done is Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2). Is this a piece within the same realm as the HR2, or is it a totally different beast entirely with regards to difficulty? Are there any particular difficulties the piece presents?

[pts1]

Your post gives a certain sense of "disorientation" the way you ask it.
Allow me to re-cast it in a different subject and perhaps you'll see my dilemma.

Mountain Climbing

I'm considering taking on the Matterhorn, but I'm not really sure what to expect with it.
I'm not a student of vertical sports or body conditioning, although I'm learning climbing at a decently
advanced level (for comparison, the most difficult mountain I've conquered is Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa). Is the Matterhorn within the same realm as MK, or is it a totally different beast entirely with regards to difficulty? Are there any particular difficulties the mountain presents?

[azbroolah]

Your post gives a certain sense of "disorientation" the way you ask it.
Allow me to re-cast it in a different subject and perhaps you'll see my dilemma.

Mountain Climbing

I'm considering taking on the Matterhorn, but I'm not really sure what to expect with it.
I'm not a student of vertical sports or body conditioning, although I'm learning climbing at a decently
advanced level (for comparison, the most difficult mountain I've conquered is Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa). Is the Matterhorn within the same realm as MK, or is it a totally different beast entirely with regards to difficulty? Are there any particular difficulties the mountain presents?

I must admit, I don't actually know where or what the Matterhorn is (I'm assuming it's a mountain,) but I take your point.

Maybe, then, more concisely: which piece is more difficult, the HR2 or the Polonaise? Does the Polonaise present unique difficulties?

Also, when I say I'm not a student of music I mean I don't play piano in college (still have a couple years of high school until then). Perhaps I should have said I'm not a music student

[pianoman53]

the polonaise has a famous octave passage, that you'll find troublesome. it also has pretty fast scales... but i mean, if you're not a music student, there is no need to play it to perfection, right? So go for it.

[danny_i]

It simply doesn't make sense to say you're not a student of music, but you want to play op. 53. Do you mean you don't study at a conservatory? If you don't study seriously it would probably be a waste of your time to try to learn this piece.

Keep in mind that technical difficulties are not paramount here. Playing a piece up to speed with all the correct notes is step 1 of about 20 in learning a piece. Perhaps your time would be better spent learning a beethoven sonata or a bach partita or a set of brahms intermezzi or chopin nocturnes, so you can focus on all the musical and interpretational aspects of piano playing.

If you're not a serious student, you might spend several months learning all the notes in Hungarian Rhapsody #2 or the Heroic polonaise, get it up to speed, and then think that you've mastered it, when the technical difficulties are just masking all the other aspects of the piece that you're missing.

[thesixthsensemusic]

If you play HR2 and you don't know how to judge this Polonaise from the freely available sheet music on IMSLP, or are not interested in the fact that the Wikipedia page of the op. 53 answers ALL your questions except the difficulty comparison, then I don't really know what to say anymore. However, I believe if you can in fact play HR2 you will certainly be able to deal with the 'Octaves'-cq. 'Heroic' Polonaise too.

Sorry for being so harsh, but it's just a matter of accepting the fact that Google and Wiki are your best friends in this case

Regarding difficulty comparison: according to www.henle.de (with very nice difficulty ranking systems in their piano catalog, from 1 to 9) they are both an 8.

[ted]

I say learn it because it's so consistently enjoyable to play as you get older. I don't like classical music at all really but that one and the Rhapsody In Blue I still play every few days at sixty-five, and I learned them in my teens. They always give me a kick to play for some reason. Probably just a view of a silly old forum fart with a soft spot for the sentimental.

[p2u_]

the polonaise has a famous octave passage, that you'll find troublesome.

Yeah, it's often jokingly called the "coffee grinder" polonaise. It can be troublesome because the instinctive reaction to this kind of passages may be to activate the brakes instead of bouncing freely with active finger tips...

Paul

[jayeckz]

I'm considering adding this piece to my repertoire, but I'm not really sure what to expect with it. I'm not a student of music, although I'm learning piano at a decently advanced level (for comparison, the most difficult piece I've done is Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2). Is this a piece within the same realm as the HR2, or is it a totally different beast entirely with regards to difficulty? Are there any particular difficulties the piece presents?

I've studied and performed both the HR and the Polonaise.  In my case, I learned the Polonaise before the HR.  I spent less than a month to learn the Polonaise (I did fool around with the piece several years before this though).  It took me about 4 months of at least 2 hours of practice a day to get the HR ready for performance.

If you can actually play the HR, the Polonaise will be extremely easy for you to learn.  In terms of getting the piece up to tempo, for most students, the legato fourths in the opening, the trills, and the octave portions are the most difficult.

For me, I mainly had issues with voicing, rhythm, and playing the piece musically (when I first learned the notes, I just banged the crap out of the piano for 80% of the piece).

If you play HR2 and you don't know how to judge this Polonaise from the freely available sheet music on IMSLP... then I don't really know what to say anymore.

I find this strange as well!  I would think that if someone is at a level to play the HR2, the person should be able to decide for themselves.

[michaeljames]

I'm considering adding this piece to my repertoire, but I'm not really sure what to expect with it. I'm not a student of music, although I'm learning piano at a decently advanced level (for comparison, the most difficult piece I've done is Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2). Is this a piece within the same realm as the HR2, or is it a totally different beast entirely with regards to difficulty? Are there any particular difficulties the piece presents?

I think that the Polonaise is easier than HR2...however, playing it so that it is musically pleasing is more challenging than HR2. 

I've watched countless YouTube videos of the Polonaise and I cannot believe how strong the convictions and opinions of many are regarding its interpretation!  I've seen perfectly wonderful performances critiqued as if they have no merit whatsoever. 

The bottom line:  play what you want, enjoy the process and don't worry what others say.  As a student (still...started at 4 and I will be 51 on Monday!) I value my coach's input, but I play because it is my passion...I hope it is pleasing, especially to my coach, but if I am pleased, that's all that matters to me.

[david456103]

The polonaise is tough now that i think about it. to be honest, i found it tougher than his fourth ballade, at least in terms of technique. It has a lot of awkward chord passages, and the beginning double notes are pretty hard to get perfect. My guess, however, is that if you can handle HR2 you can probably handle this.

[jeffkonkol]

I guess im still lost in the concept of... being able to play HR2, but not being able to evaluate the difficulties and challenges of the heroic.

[virtuoso80]

Aside from the octave section, which is very trying, I've never found this to be a problematic piece. Musically, it's always seemed pretty intuitive and straightforward. In fact, I often good piece for young students to hear (and for the really good ones to try and play), as it doesn't require a whole lot of maturity to enjoy and 'get'.

[chopianologue]

Yeah, It's a serious virtuosic piece. But not as scary as rhapsodies.
If you can beat:
-trills with the weakest fingers
-quick thirds, trills with thirds
-scales with fourths
-really quick octaves(that famous left hand passage)
-broken chords
-extended chords
-high musiquality

You'll see it's okay.
I think, a person who can ''completely'' play HR2, finish this piece normally.

[okanaganmusician]

Start practicing your LH octaves - the middle section of the Heroic will frustrate you otherwise.

It isn't a tough piece to learn the notes and get the basics of.  It is however a tough piece to master.

[invictious]

For me, I am not sure why every single person seems to find the LH rapid octave runs problematic. I found that section to be easier compared to the rest of the piece.

You can find many different technical difficulties as highlight above, as like trills with weak fingers, phrasing with the thirds, rapid scales, RH octaves, wide arpeggios etc.

One of your main considerations would be the tempo you elect and the stylistic choices you have to make throughout the different sections.

Feel free to ask me anything if you have any more questions about this piece!