Have you considered Moonlight's 3rd movement?I mean if you can play all of Pathétique I don't see why you couldn't give it a shot. All the parts that look impressive are not as difficult as they look, if you ask me the most difficult part is from 1:00 to 1:18 in this video.I mean that may just be my personal strengths and weaknesses coming into play, but yeah I'm just trying to say that especially considering you got a couple sonatas under your belt, which obviously shows you've got considerable keyboard facility, it would be a shame not to finish the piece because you feel it may be out of reach.Maybe you're selling yourself short!
It's funny, when I told my teacher I wanted to learn Pathétique and a bunch of other sonatas, he told me to do the Moonlight first.He constantly seems to give the impression that Pathétique is more difficult. Obviously everyone finds different things difficult, but yeah just thought I'd put that out there. Of course it does require mature playing, but doesn't every sonata? Honestly while I'm not saying the 3rd movement is easy, because it's not, it is definitely technically demanding, it is also quite repetitive, and is very possible to bring up to its ferocious presto tempo by practising very slowly and patiently.You'll find that a lot of it just fits under the hands very nicely, technique wise it becomes almost automatic, which makes adding all your interpretative thoughts all that much easier.Also not to mention how impressive it looks to play. Let's not lie and say it isn't immensely satisfying to play virtuosic pieces for the technical aspect. :p
Pathetique is ... one of the earlier Beethoven's work.... But, on the other side, Moonlight is a later work
1798 vs 1801. I wouldn't read too much into that tbh.
I can indeed play the Moonlight.All the hard work was definitely worth it, and I'm not going to be like one of those people who say it was some 2 week side project. It took a long time, took a lot of patience, and a lot of discipline, but I got there in the end.Honestly the hardest part of making progress is once you can play the first theme of the exposition, you sort of just feel like a total beast and keep playing that instead of moving on >.>Good thing I have a teacher who expects at least a little progress every week, and I will say that without his guidance it would have been impossible. So yeah, definitely grateful to him.Also tbh with regards to depth, I always say if you can recognise the scope, depth, and magnitude of a piece, you're probably fit to have a go at it in that respect.
Moonlight has many influences that would be seen on Beethoven's last Sonatas.
None especially so, I think; and no more in any case than the Pathetique.I note that you've played the Moonlight. Have you played the Pathetique? Or any of the late Sonatas?
I played "Les Adieux" n.26 op. 81 It's challenging and various is one of the 10 most difficult Beethoven's Sonatas
but it doesn't seem to me to have done anything special Anyway telling the truth I still have to finish the 3 mvt that is the most difficult piece in the Sonata. I started the 1 mvt at the end of october and I've completed it in mid december. Now It's going to get shape by polishing it. The II mvt it's not difficult at all just you have to pay attention at the hidden melodies and the voices you have in the chpords with right hand, it's important to bring up the last note you play with 4 and 5 finger. I think that if you want to study it and prepare a recital or audition you have to work on it for a year, I'd like to play it whenever I will able to try an admission in a music academy
The melodic shift to the left hand is a common difficulty since we're used to playing melodies in the right hand.It's why everyone should play Bach and lots of it. XD
:x Have you any tip about it? I even thought about crossing the hands and play the staffs exchanged - playing the bass cleff with right hand and the treble cleff with left hand - but completely dispensed the idea, because it just doesn't work.Well, I think I'll have to star VERY slowly, especially in this part... '-' Have you had too much difficulty in the development?Thx
How did you learn how to play a melody in the right hand and accompany in the left?It's exactly the same principle just the opposite way round, it just takes some getting used to if you haven't done it before. Take it really slowly and when you start to speed up a bit, never lose track of the pulse, in fact keeping track of the pulse. If you try to fit the left hand in to the pulse rather than simply trying to coordinate note for note, you'll find it a lot easier.
If anyone plays the Prestissimo from Op.2/1, I'm have a main problem now...In bars 2 and 4, when the left hand goes down, the indicated fingers are (5-1-2)-(1-2-4)-(5-3-1)-(5-3-1) - each group in brackets are each triplet. But I found this fingering a little difficult, and I play like this: (5-1-3)-(5-"jump"-1-3)Is it wrong? I'm more comfortable with the "jumping" when the left hand goes down. If I try to pass "thumb down" I always lose control and hit the wrong notes.
Fingering is always a bit idiosyncratic, but I don't think the "jump" sounds like it will work at speed.Try 513-123. Also, try and make sure your hand is in smooth constant motion to support the finger movements, not a jerk at the thumb under.The jump may work now, but I suspect it will either fail to be accurate at speed, or create an unintended accent on the wrong note.
Maybe the question should be...which one should you not play next?
Have fun!
Cool! Im working on op 10 no 3 sonata, and my teacher decided she wants to learn it as well! How fun! Still a long ways to finish, for me, though.
Yes, Op.10/3 seems to be harder. I don't know why, but I don't like the Presto very much... :x I don't know, I prefer very much the 2nd movement, that is my favorite! ^^ Do you mean that 2nd movement may be harder than 1st? I can't say, 'cause I don't play this sonata, but anyway... But surely the Largo e mesto is very challenging, even being a slow movement, I think it requires a lot of technique and expression, don't it?If I would play this sonata, I think I'll have many problems in all movements... The 1st is fast and I think it may be hard to play the notes correcly... The 2nd needs a lot of maturity and musicality. I've always been in trouble with Menuettos and Scherzos, like the 3rd... And I have the impression that the 4th is harder than the 1st, maybe...Yes, if I could, I'd choose Op.10/2, it seems "less hard" and I love this one too!But, for now, I've gotta play the damned triplets from the 4th of Op.2/1...We can compare both sonatas, but I'm sure Op.10/3 is harder, actually!
Well, the reason i am learning this sonata is because i LOVE the first movement. It is very playful! The largo....oooooh so musically challenging. Idk how bee came up with the melody at the end, its haunting! The minuetto is so fun and vocal....the last movement i have no comment on. I like richters op 10 no 3There are a couple of pages in the op 10 no2 that look intense. I havent listened to it as much as the following sonata, but i think you will get alot from learning this one. I highly recommend it, for the fun it represents. If you have questions, shoot! Ill probably learn that one next...
I have the dover set, also ricordi. I got the dover set on amazon for like 20 dollars. It is worth having the book so you can look at all the beethoven sonatas and notes. The dover has editor notes on modifications to original score and all that jazz. Im not a pro or anything, i am still a student but i do prefer a book with clean print, references to original manuscripts and notes, and a good recording to listen to...in op 10/3 the first movement the ties and bass notes you hold are rediculous! Id do op 10 2 just because its shorter and you could prob perform it sooner! The pathetique is an amazing sonata, its very popular so alot of people play it very well! Dont worry about not having it perfect, work on it as long as it takes! I am going to work on the largo today. The presto is a difficult section, but if you get it right at any tempo, youll get presto eventually too! Just go for it, start with the presto section!
I'm thinking about buying it... I found a site which has the Dover Edition, maybe I'll buy it. But, anyway... I think that the editions are very important, because who wants to study with a horrible score? Well, all the sonatas ('-' "all the sonatas", who reads, thinks that I've already performed half of them ) I learned I used the edition I put there. I found it very good, but when I looked to Dover edition and I found it very good too! The only thing I found strange was that the staccatos are marked with staccatissimos. o-O Or maybe it was just the one I looked, anyway...Did you find bad the edition I used? I can't complain, I've always used that one, so...Yes, Pathetique is amazing! It's one of my favorite sonatas! The 1st movement is very difficult, but it's not like "wow, it's impossible!". I'm playing it a little better now, but it still has several mistakes... I'm finishing the 4th from Op.2/1, then I'll try to play 3rd from Moonlight's. .-. I hope I'll get it... xDIf I can't, or maybe after Moonlight, I'll probably start Op.10/2 or Op.10/1... Anyway, I hope I can play more sonatas The "Presto" you say is from Op.10 No.2 or No.3?? Well, both are impressively difficult, imo...You're starting the Largo? ^^ My favorite, have good studies!! Thank you very much!
yeh, I mean the dover is good! I am not a pro so as long as I can understand the score and it is representative of the music, then it's good to go. I can work through the dover. I worked on the largo today, it really made me feel good. I know what you mean about the staccatissimos, i think that is right, and he uses stacccatos too, the dots. Not as often though, because B did not like very detached staccato. Let me know what edition you use, I think dover is least expensive. Congrats on the Pathetique, i remember I cried to the first movement when I listened to it in the dark, cold apartment, I couldnt afford electricity and my job was ruining my connection with the piano. It was a really dark time in my life... So yeah, keep updated on the edition and which sonata, the staccatissimo is just to say that the note should be played short, but not staccato.
Yes but dont play staccatissimo as staccato. Theyre both used accordingly and separately in his works.
I have been searching about the editions, and discovered that Dover isn't an Urtext Edition. :x What do you think about Henle? I found it's Urtext and I liked very much the scores too, and I found where buy it. Do you think Dover is better than Henle? Actually I liked both of them, but as Henle is Urtext, I thought about using this one...I don't know... Maybe Henle, I think xD
Actually I'm a little undecided about the metronome marking in Presto agitato... Teran, may I ask what is the MM you play? Presto should be about 180-200, and the Moonlight's 3rd should be in this tempo? 180 seems to be hard, but I think that with much practice I'll be able to do it. I listened to some interpretations and there's a few that the music is about 160...I was wondering what should be the correct tempo... '-' I know that this is very relative, but, approximately, what should be the MM for Presto agitato?Can anyone tell me about it?
Does urtext have fingerings? My urtext Bach wtc didnt. Yes staccatissimos just play fast, short, but not staccato. Staccato is detached, possibly because they are not as fast. Also, Urtext is expensive. :p. If you can look at both, just pick one! Dover is ok though. I dont mind it. Yes the largo ill try and finish today! Its so beautiful! Hehe
180 - 200 is Prestissimo territory lol.I play anywhere between around 152 and 168 depending on how I feel, I don't really see any particular reason to go much faster. Not really a fan of extreme tempo, especially in this case where I feel it would detract from the more melodic sections.
Yes, for all I know, Henle edition has fingerings! ^^ And I also noticed the Henle edition is more expensive... '-' But I think it will worth, anyway, and I found it isn't TOO more expensive.But staccatissimo should be even more detached than staccatos, shouldn't it? anyway...Today I couldn't study... ¬¬ My parents were home, they hate any kind of sound... ''-.- But I'm improving oin the Prestissimo from Op.2/1, almost finishing. Keep on the great work in Op.10/3! If you post a video or recording, I'd be glad to listen!Good studies, and sorry about my English... ¬¬ A few people have already complained about it... -_-'' I even changed my "signature" .-. hehexD Anyway, good luck and thank you very much!
Yes, I agree with you; I think that the 3rd should't be too much fast, for the same reason! After all, it's not Prestissimo, and many people play as if it was Prestissimo, but anyway...Thank you for the reply! But even so I found 152 very hard! xDI'm almost finishing Op.2/1 4th movement, so I'll start Moonlight's 3rd... '-' Hopefully I'll improve on this too! ^^Thank you!