play or not to play

[tiago_666]

is the note with the red circle to play or not.
(Claire de Lune Debussy).

I see on youtube, sometimes is played sometimes not....

thanks.

[j_menz]

I've always played it, and I think it sounds better if it is, but I think I could argue either way. Do what you prefer the sound of.

[felipe717]

Actually I've never seen it not being played.
But, if you're saying, maybe it's kind of optional... I don't know... But I do play that note, and I like the sound. I agree with j_menz, you should play the way you find better! If there are interpretations wherein this note isn't played, maybe there's nothing wrong in playing it or not.

[felipe717]

Actually I think it should be played, yes - I mean "why not? It's written there, after all" But the choice is yours

[bronnestam]

I always play it and I think the "wave like" pulse would be interrupted without it.

Well, that is if you think there is a point with that pulse. 

[tiago_666]

i agree it sounds better...
BUT...

Why the use of the dotted halfnote (minim) in the beginning ?
Why Debussy puts that note there? Why not a Quarter note (crotchet) ?
Academically speaking : "Play or not play" ?

cheers.

[felipe717]

i agree it sounds better...
BUT...

Why the use of the dotted halfnote (minim) in the beginning ?
Why Debussy puts that note there? Why not a Quarter note (crotchet) ?
Academically speaking : "Play or not play" ?

cheers.

I'm not an expert, but I think that the half note means that the G flat should be continued, prolongued, that's why we use pedal very much in this music (at least, I do... '-'). But, how there's a second G flat (the note in the circle) I think we should play the G flat once again, even though there's a half note before. But I'm not expert and I may be wrong.
But imo, the half note is there just meaning that we should play those arpeggios very prolongued and in sostenuto maybe?, but it doesn't mean that the second G flat mustn't be played. That's what I think, but I may be wrong...

[tiago_666]

exactly...
the question persist...

 

[p2u_]

i agree it sounds better...
BUT...

Why the use of the dotted halfnote (minim) in the beginning ?
Why Debussy puts that note there? Why not a Quarter note (crotchet) ?
Academically speaking : "Play or not play" ?

There are three layers: an upper voice, an accompaniment and a lower voice. Each has to have its value, but sustaining the lower voice with your hands is practically speaking an illusion because you have to sound the first note of the accompaniment-group which is the same. The "base" note is not tied to the note of the accompaniment, you see?

Paul

[tiago_666]

Like this:
(attachment)

It makes sense (sooo simple.... ).

Thank you very much

[p2u_]

It makes sense (sooo simple.... ).

This is not something that should make you sad. Actually, as soon as you open your eyes for such details, the music itself gets more depth and often becomes easier, more natural to play technically, so it's a moment of joy.

Paul

[tiago_666]

I understand Paul ...
I understand (now) the detail... but...
it is impossible to put this "idea" into the piano playing isnīt it ?

The people who is listning not always have the sheet music in hand... 

[p2u_]

I understand Paul ...
I understand (now) the detail... but...
it is impossible to put this "idea" into the piano playing isnīt it ?

The people who is listning not always have the sheet music in hand...  

We can still suggest it, that's why artists are the illusionists they are. Just listen to Sviatoslav Richter on YouTube playing this gem.
P.S.: I'm not kidding about the technique often becoming easier, by the way. It is my experience that many people try to tie details that should not be tied at all, thereby increasing the technical difficulties of certain pieces by a multiple! (Even to the point of making them actually unplayable)

Paul

[tiago_666]

Last one...
What do you think about Angela Hewitt playing it?
youtube/watch?v=-ip64cG7gK4
I cant even hear "that base note" in her performance....

cheers.

[p2u_]

Last one...
What do you think about Angela Hewitt playing it?
youtube/watch?v=-ip64cG7gK4

Not my favorite, but still a fine musician.

I cant even hear "that base note" in her performance....

I can hear it, but it is not as pronounced as in some other versions of the piece.
1) the recording itself is a bit out of balance towards the higher frequencies, at least on my computer
2) she seems to be playing a Fazioli, no? I find those pianos generally a bit "cold".

Paul

[nyiregyhazi]

I've always played it, and I think it sounds better if it is, but I think I could argue either way. Do what you prefer the sound of.

I don't think there's actually any argument about what the score means. There are two musical voices. One is tied the other has an active instruction for a note. That means you need to play it again. With two instruments playing, one wouldn't leave a note out because the other was playing it too. It's beyond any doubt that it's to be played. Only on the third beat is there some question- but I don't believe you can exactly tie a note in one voice to a totally separate accompaniment voice.

[p2u_]

Only on the third beat is there some question- but I don't believe you can exactly tie a note in one voice to a totally separate accompaniment voice.

I think the lower voice is intended as one big pedal point (or how do you call that in English?), lasting for the complete 9/8 (a dotted half + a dotted quarter, tied together), no?

Paul

[nyiregyhazi]

I think the lower voice is intended as one big pedal point (or how do you call that in English?), lasting for the complete 9/8 (a dotted half + a dotted quarter, tied together), no?

Paul

Yes, I can see how it could be argued that there is ambiguity in whether to strike the short note though- on the double stemmed note. I think it should be sounded myself, but someone could argue that the tie could be applied to both, due to the single note head.