Piano teacher refuses to teach me due to misunderstanding

[pianograde13]

I really adore piano,   but my teacher got absoloutley mad at me and said they'd no longer teach me! Basically we were in the middle of my exam piece which I am also doing for an exam practical. But suddenly when I came across a word called vibrato I asked what It meant. The teacher stood up and got really angry saying he couldn't do it anymore. Then went to a book and opened it up at the word vibrato saying that my school might as well teach me if I don't listen to him. He thought that I was questioning what vibrato meant and saying he was wrong. This probably came from my music mock where my teacher said I needed to improve my pedalling. When he got angry I was so shocked I just didn't understand! He then got even angrier saying in all his years of teaching he has never been questioned. He said he refused to teach me anymore and he'd return my money. I could hardly speak because I was shocked and I said he had completley misunderstood me. I didn't mean that I thought he was wrong! Nothing about that, I just didn't know what the word meant! I then had to leave and couldn't speak because I was about to cry. He said he'd return my money and then closed the door where I burst out crying. What should I do? Should I go back and try to explain myself? I have an exam in a few monthes. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[felipe717]

I really adore piano,   but my teacher got absoloutley mad at me and said they'd no longer teach me! Basically we were in the middle of my exam piece which I am also doing for an exam practical. But suddenly when I came across a word called vibrato I asked what It meant. The teacher stood up and got really angry saying he couldn't do it anymore. Then went to a book and opened it up at the word vibrato saying that my school might as well teach me if I don't listen to him. He thought that I was questioning what vibrato meant and saying he was wrong. This probably came from my music mock where my teacher said I needed to improve my pedalling. When he got angry I was so shocked I just didn't understand! He then got even angrier saying in all his years of teaching he has never been questioned. He said he refused to teach me anymore and he'd return my money. I could hardly speak because I was shocked and I said he had completley misunderstood me. I didn't mean that I thought he was wrong! Nothing about that, I just didn't know what the word meant! I then had to leave and couldn't speak because I was about to cry. He said he'd return my money and then closed the door where I burst out crying. What should I do? Should I go back and try to explain myself? I have an exam in a few monthes. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

o-O Wow!! Oh, man, you must be very upset... :/
I think you should try to explain to him what really happened. I can't understand what he thought about the question... '-' I mean, it's just a question, c'mon, teacher!!
If I were you I'd talk to him... Your exam is close, and if you lose the teacher, I don't know what can happen. Try to explain what you really meant. I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding.
Good luck!! ^^

[pianograde13]

Thanks so much for reply! Yes I am to be honest! For some reason, I don't know how, he concluded that I was saying he was wrong in what vibrato meant. Even though I just said I didn't know what it was. He's quite a distinguished player so I could understand he would be upset if someone did say he was wrong. But the thing is I wasn't! I just didn't know what the word meant.

He was really angry and upest. I really don't know if I should go back. I don't think he'll understand or believe me! But maybe its worth a try?

[nyiregyhazi]

I really adore piano,   but my teacher got absoloutley mad at me and said they'd no longer teach me! Basically we were in the middle of my exam piece which I am also doing for an exam practical. But suddenly when I came across a word called vibrato I asked what It meant. The teacher stood up and got really angry saying he couldn't do it anymore. Then went to a book and opened it up at the word vibrato saying that my school might as well teach me if I don't listen to him. He thought that I was questioning what vibrato meant and saying he was wrong. This probably came from my music mock where my teacher said I needed to improve my pedalling. When he got angry I was so shocked I just didn't understand! He then got even angrier saying in all his years of teaching he has never been questioned. He said he refused to teach me anymore and he'd return my money. I could hardly speak because I was shocked and I said he had completley misunderstood me. I didn't mean that I thought he was wrong! Nothing about that, I just didn't know what the word meant! I then had to leave and couldn't speak because I was about to cry. He said he'd return my money and then closed the door where I burst out crying. What should I do? Should I go back and try to explain myself? I have an exam in a few monthes. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

This doesn't make any obvious sense. Are you definitely recounting it exactly as it happened? Why would anyone interpret a question as meaning they are "wrong"? Wrong about what? As you state it there is no evident ground for a misunderstanding. If it happened exactly like that, the guy sounds mentally ill.

[felipe717]

Yes, I believe it would worth. He may either understand or not. But an attempt can be worth!
But I don't see why he wouldn't believe in you. What happens was a misunderstanding, because of a simple question; I think he will understand.
Anyway, if by chance you have to leave the studies with him, would it prejudice your exam? :/ Perhaps if you have to look for another teacher, would it affect your exam? If not, maybe you could study with another teacher. But, of course, it just would happen if your current teacher really don't want to teach you more, but I don't believe it will happen!
Just try to explain what really happened and I'm pretty sure he'll forget it and apologize! ^^
But I do agree with nyiregyhazi... I didn't understand what the teacher thought about the question... :S It's just a simple question, I can't see why he would think it was an insult or something like that.

[pianograde13]

Yes exactly! However there is some background knowledge which could probably explain to it. A few weeks ago I had a practical mock in music class at school. So when I returned to my piano lesson I told him my comments which were that my pedalling needed to be greatly improved and I was too harsh with lifting my foot up and down. I think he took offence in this, like his teaching was being critizized. So a few weeks later(what I just said in my post) when we went through it again I came across the word vibrato whilst I was playing and I asked what it was and said I didn't know how to do it. Thats when he got angry. For some reason he thought I was saying he was wrong when really I literally asked him what It meant. Does that make any more sense? He is old afterall - from his shouting it really seemed like he thought my school said he was teaching the pedalling wrong.However, I literally just asked what it meant and said I was unable to do it.
Thanks so so much for replies!

[pianograde13]

Felipe- I think I will try and explain again! But if he dosen't believe me I defintley will have to look for another teacher. I have no other choice, and Im not going to give up, I love it too much! Thanks so much for advice and help!

[hfmadopter]

Yes exactly! However there is some background knowledge which could probably explain to it. A few weeks ago I had a practical mock in music class at school. So when I returned to my piano lesson I told him my comments which were that my pedalling needed to be greatly improved and I was too harsh with lifting my foot up and down. I think he took offence in this, like his teaching was being critizized. So a few weeks later(what I just said in my post) when we went through it again I came across the word vibrato whilst I was playing and I asked what it was and said I didn't know how to do it. Thats when he got angry. For some reason he thought I was saying he was wrong when really I literally asked him what It meant. Does that make any more sense? He is old afterall - from his shouting it really seemed like he thought my school said he was teaching the pedalling wrong.However, I literally just asked what it meant and said I was unable to do it.
Thanks so so much for replies!

Could it be that he had already covered vibrato with you in an earlier lesson some time ago ?

[perfect_pitch]

Could it be that he had already covered vibrato with you in an earlier lesson some time ago ?

Yeah... no offense, but my teacher would get crabby at me if I didn't know what terms meant. It's a basic understanding that if I don't know what something means on the page, I look it up. I shouldn't have to ASK her...

I teach my students that as well - if they don't know what leggiero means, I make it their homework.

Could be they thought you weren't maintaining some of the understanding for yourself and you relied on them to give you all the answers... I don't know - I'm just speculating.

[kujiraya]

I suspect that this problem arose in the context of a Liszt piece, perhapes Liebestraum No. 3?

If so, be assured that this vibrato marking has been the cause of much, much, much angst, arguments and interpersonal abuse ever since it was first published. At the heart of the matter are a few issues:

1) A piano is not a violin. A piano cannot play a vibrato note without going into and beyond John Cage's "prepared piano" territory.

2) Liszt was a HUGE egomaniac who thought he was so good at the piano that he could play a vibrato note on a piano, OR he wanted to perpetuate the legend of his superhuman virtuosity by making the "vibrato" marking, making gullible mortals who want to learn Liebestraum No. 3 (and possibly a few other of his pieces) go "oooh" and "aaahhh" at how omnipotent Liszt must have been.

3) The degree in which one holds Liszt sacrosanct and whether you attribute infallibility to Liszt or not: I do not hold Liszt in "Godlike" status, therefore I can explain that "vibrato" marking with my point 2) above. However, to someone who worships Liszt as "God", the mere mention of the "vibrato" marking in Liebestraum No. 3 (and possibly a few other works by Liszt) would incite hate and rage, as if his/her "God", "Jesus", "Allah" or "Mohammad" had been blasphemed.

I suspect that your teacher is a Liszt-worshipper, and in your naive questioning concerning this notorious "vibrato" marking, you touched upon a raw nerve. Maybe because he has been mocked and challenged about this "vibrato" marking far too many times already in the past, he thought that you, too, were about to side-swipe his Liszt religion.

[kujiraya]

How DARE you insult Liszt! The vibrato term is not literal! It is meant to indicate the TONE you are trying to achieve!!

[kujiraya]

You are wrong. Liszt LITERALLY meant vibrato. Liszt taught all his pupils the bebung technique.

[chopin2015]

Find new teacher. Noone is perfect but if they do not want to teach you its because they dont feel in charge of the situation and they cant teach you. Find new teacher, someone who has experience teaching among your skill level type and similar age group students...youll find it less stressful in any case. Good luck.

[kujiraya]

Liszt taught all his pupils the bebung technique.

Bebung is a clavichord technique. It doesn't work on pianos.

[kujiraya]

Maybe not on the heavy steel framed instruments we have today, but it worked in Liszt's day!

[chopin2015]

Bebung is a clavichord technique. It doesn't work on pianos.

R u arguing with yourself?

[lostinidlewonder]

The opening post describes a very stupid teacher, find a new one, easy. Be happy the teacher reacted like this it makes it very easy to know that you should find a new one. Any teacher who makes you feel bad about yourself should not be in the teaching profession. Even if the teacher were the top educator in your country, it is not worth going back to them since they chose to break the professional relationship with you and with nastiness.

[lostinidlewonder]

R u arguing with yourself?

Probably forgot to change account.   Or making a statement about arguing

[kujiraya]

R u arguing with yourself?

Yes, this is how pianists end up chopping off each other's fingers after arguing about how to play vibrato on the piano.

Maybe the OP's teacher could have studied under a pupil of a pupil of Liszt...

But the real way to achieve a vibrato effect on a piano is to make sure that your piano is out of tune. Then, the clashing overtones do the job for you!

[chopin2015]

No, you grab a piano leg and shake it like the dickens!

[pianograde13]

The opening post describes a very stupid teacher, find a new one, easy. Be happy the teacher reacted like this it makes it very easy to know that you should find a new one. Any teacher who makes you feel bad about yourself should not be in the teaching profession. Even if the teacher were the top educator in your country, it is not worth going back to them since they chose to break the professional relationship with you and with nastiness.

Thank you for your reply! I think you have adressed my main issue here, which is my relationship with the teacher. The teacher has made me feel awful, I think it may be too uncomfortable to go back after what happened! Perhaps I struck a sensitive spot- I had no idea! Anyways maybe its good that it happened because maybe I could of been upset at more of a detrimental time where my exam is near. Thanks so much for advice, very helpful!

[lostinidlewonder]

You're welcome. Be confident that this is not your fault, not one bit. You can ask whatever questions you like and forget what you are taught as often as it takes until you finally "get it", if a teacher puts you down for this then shame on them! Terrible teachers like this can make students hate something that they really do love, it is a travesty of justice, a real insult to the teaching profession. Good luck in finding your next teacher, I am sure you will find someone just right for you and quickly forget about this idiot you had to deal with.

[pianograde13]

I suspect that this problem arose in the context of a Liszt piece, perhapes Liebestraum No. 3?

If so, be assured that this vibrato marking has been the cause of much, much, much angst, arguments and interpersonal abuse ever since it was first published. At the heart of the matter are a few issues:

1) A piano is not a violin. A piano cannot play a vibrato note without going into and beyond John Cage's "prepared piano" territory.

2) Liszt was a HUGE egomaniac who thought he was so good at the piano that he could play a vibrato note on a piano, OR he wanted to perpetuate the legend of his superhuman virtuosity by making the "vibrato" marking, making gullible mortals who want to learn Liebestraum No. 3 (and possibly a few other of his pieces) go "oooh" and "aaahhh" at how omnipotent Liszt must have been.

3) The degree in which one holds Liszt sacrosanct and whether you attribute infallibility to Liszt or not: I do not hold Liszt in "Godlike" status, therefore I can explain that "vibrato" marking with my point 2) above. However, to someone who worships Liszt as "God", the mere mention of the "vibrato" marking in Liebestraum No. 3 (and possibly a few other works by Liszt) would incite hate and rage, as if his/her "God", "Jesus", "Allah" or "Mohammad" had been blasphemed.

I suspect that your teacher is a Liszt-worshipper, and in your naive questioning concerning this notorious "vibrato" marking, you touched upon a raw nerve. Maybe because he has been mocked and challenged about this "vibrato" marking far too many times already in the past, he thought that you, too, were about to side-swipe his Liszt religion.

Actually its funny you mention that. I also play violin so when I came across the word I was baffled and a bit confused, thats why I asked what it meant. Oh dear, I didn't know I was getting into a touchy subject! My knowledge isn't that exstensive so thats why I asked. I think you make a good point - Maybe I did touch a nerve with him - even though I had absoloutley no idea.  The arguments on the vibrato are very interesting, I never knew anything about it in terms of piano. So thank you for giving me an insight to your knowledge! 
However I think at this point it will be uncomfortable to return. He was very angry, I felt awful. This makes alot of sense, maybe you've made a possible explanation. Thanks so much for info!

[pianograde13]

You're welcome. Be confident that this is not your fault, not one bit. You can ask whatever questions you like and forget what you are taught as often as it takes until you finally "get it", if a teacher puts you down for this then shame on them! Terrible teachers like this can make students hate something that they really do love, it is a travesty of justice, a real insult to the teaching profession. Good luck in finding your next teacher, I am sure you will find someone just right for you and quickly forget about this idiot you had to deal with.

This is extremely comforting to read! I think I am beginning to get a little less upset and starting to regain my confidence. I have been feeling absoloutley awful about it ever since, and your comment has really helped and gave me a new perspective of the situation. I am very relieved that I am no longer so upset. I think I will find a new teacher and start to enjoy myself again.   Thank you again for your insight and advice!

[pianograde13]

Find new teacher. Noone is perfect but if they do not want to teach you its because they dont feel in charge of the situation and they cant teach you. Find new teacher, someone who has experience teaching among your skill level type and similar age group students...youll find it less stressful in any case. Good luck.

Yes I think I will have to find a new teacher! This teacher is very distinguished however he does work with majority children, alot who are very young, so he isn't really an extremely strict teacher with very high standards from students. In fact he teaches many students at my level and mostly who are on lower grades than me. I have never failed an exam and has never faulted my practice, so I really feel like it couldn't be due to him feeling unable to teach me because I was unable to learn. However he is very talented so If he thought I was challenging him (even though I didn't) I could understand he would be offended!  Thank you for advice! 

[chopin2015]

What are u supposed to prepare for the exam?

[dcstudio]

...a possible explanation..not necessarily YOUR scenario...

  lol... touchy touchy...   Sometimes students will "stall" their lesson by asking an obvious question... or asking for further explanation on something they already know.  It is a clever technique to get through a lesson without playing the piano...I used to use it all the time when I hadn't practiced. It is, however, so easy to detect--because most teachers are experts at it.  Students who do this will then act victimized when their teacher voices his frustration at having to answer the obvious--again.  Then they try to convince their parents that the reason they are not doing well in piano is because "the teacher won't answer my questions."  Next there's a phone call from mom--and well....


LOL From a teacher's standpoint--dumping a student is something I have only done 3 times in 20 years.   It is not a decision taken lightly and there are always consequences--no piano teacher wants that kind of reputation.  He was already thinking of dumping you long before you ever uttered the word "vibrato."   that much is almost certain.
regardless of your actual intentions--I would venture to guess that your teacher believed you were just trying to "stall."  You must have caught him on a really bad day...  maybe you were like the 4th or 5th student to pull that trick on him.  

...a new teacher is recommended regardless of the accuracy of this scenario.

[the_fervid_pig]

It's a basic understanding that if I don't know what something means on the page, I look it up. I shouldn't have to ASK her...

Why not? She's your teacher, that's why you (presumably) pay her. If a teacher gets angry at a student because they don't understand then they're in the wrong job.

[keypeg]

I'd like to understand this part better:

.... A few weeks ago I had a practical mock in music class at school. So when I returned to my piano lesson I told him my comments which were that my pedaling needed to be greatly improved and I was too harsh with lifting my foot up and down. I think he took offence in this, like his teaching was being criticized. ......- from his shouting it really seemed like he thought my school said he was teaching the pedaling wrong.

What is a "mock"?  Do you mean that you did a mock exam, pretending it was the real thing as a kind of trial to iron things out?  And then whoever observed you at the school criticized your pedal technique?

Well, if that is so, then if he gets angry at anyone, he should yell at them and not at you.  But it is easier to yell at a student who is in a dependent position, than at his peers.  I can't respect that.  And if your pedaling DID have a problem, he should be working with you on it (obviously).

[perfect_pitch]

Why not? She's your teacher, that's why you (presumably) pay her. If a teacher gets angry at a student because they don't understand then they're in the wrong job.

I mean in terms of terms on the page, not technique or interpretation. As a student doing concert works, it's understood that I don't waste her time asking what this word means, or that word when I can easily look it up in 30 seconds in a music dictionary.

I get my Year 1's as homework to look up words like 'Allegro' if it's on their music so that they feel responsible for their learning.

[jazzyjeff]

without having read most of the comments, all i can say is your better off without any teacher who instills fear in a student. teachers should have a good balance, if a teacher loses it, then they are not fit to teach. playing piano should be about enjoying yourself, not rigid & regimented.
you don't need to stick with the same teacher anyway. if its not working move on.
for any music teachers are reading this, please be humble enough to accept you are not perfect.
no one is.

[dcstudio]

I mean in terms of terms on the page, not technique or interpretation. As a student doing concert works, it's understood that I don't waste her time asking what this word means, or that word when I can easily look it up in 30 seconds in a music dictionary.

I get my Year 1's as homework to look up words like 'Allegro' if it's on their music so that they feel responsible for their learning.

this generation has the internet--please...I had to actually use a book.   we are only hearing one side of this...  if I had assigned a student a  piece of music with an unfamiliar term--and that student looked at it all week--wondering what it meant but never bothered to pick up his ipad and look it up I would be annoyed... if it was on an exam piece I would be really annoyed--if I was also informed by said student that they couldn't practice the piece because they didn't know what that word meant and that's why they couldn't play it at their mock... well... and if it was a word as simple and basic as vibrato....

you want your teacher to be completely responsible for your progress yet you argue with his direction and you take no initiative to learn on your own...  not the signs of a student who "adores" piano.   this usually indicates a student who is taking piano because he's expected to...usually because there is another musician in the family who is considered "good" or its tradition.  if the student feels he is not living up to expectations he will shirk responsibility to the instructor ...  taught me this in ED class, y'all 

maybe you are totally innocent student and your teacher is a complete whack job...  but that is seldom, if ever, the case.

I am certainly not condoning his behavior -- if he acted as you say...  but I think there is far more to this story...

[birba]

He sounds looney to me.  Maybe he's under a lot of pressure.  I think he's paranoid.

This bebung thing is bugging me.  It supposedly did work on calvichords - not harpsichords - and Beethoven used the term in his op. 110.   But Liszt's pianos?  Hmmm.  I have the feeling he might have vibrated his finger on the key for visual effects.  For his lady fans in the front row...

[keypeg]

if it was on an exam piece I would be really annoyed--if I was also informed by said student that they couldn't practice the piece because they didn't know what that word meant and that's why they couldn't play it at their mock... well... and if it was a word as simple and basic as vibrato..

There is no indication that the student did not practice.  Specifically at her mock her pedaling was criticized for using too much foot motion, and the teacher was annoyed at this criticism.  This has nothing to do with not practicing.  We don't know whether he taught her proper pedal technique and she had not done it, or if this was neglected.   I've heard that proper pedal often is not taught.

The OP plays violin and knows what vibrato is.  With  a few years of violin behind me, so do I.  And would not have a clue how to produce vibrato on the piano.  If there is a technique for producing piano vibrato, then this is not the matter of book learning - I humbly suggest that technique is a teacher's job.  Is technical experimentation by a student independently even wanted?

Actually --- CAN vibrato be produced on the piano?  Maybe through some kind of pedal flutter which would initiate an oscillation of sound?

[p2u_]

Actually --- CAN vibrato be produced on the piano?  Maybe through some kind of pedal flutter which would initiate an oscillation of sound?

The only thing you *can* do on a piano is flutter pedaling (quickly changing the pedal without depressing or releasing it all the way). Some people call that pedal vibrato, but that is a misleading term. On the keys, vibrato does not give any audible effect, although I see some pianists do something similar. This is probably to continue the feeling of rhythm on long notes...

Paul

[keypeg]

To the OP:

Since your teacher says he "cannot do it anymore", and you don't seem to know what he is referring to.  Two things:

1.  Think back to your lessons.  Are there things he keeps telling you to do, which you aren't doing?  If so, is it because you are following other priorities, or because you don't know how to do them?
- Has he complained about things you do or don't do in lessons?  Frequently?  The same kinds of things?

2.  Since he is frustrated and you are bewildered, then the obvious last ditch thing would be to find out what is going on.  What is it that you are doing that he wishes you wouldn't do?  What is it that you are not doing, that he wants you to do?  If you know about them, and don't do them, what is preventing you?

Students are not mind readers, and teachers are not always good at saying things.  Or they think they've said it.  Or they think it's so "obvious" that a student should figure it out.  Etc. etc. etc.

There is always the possibility that this teacher can teach students who naturally play well, but doesn't know how to transmit skills when they're not there - the pedal situation being a case in point.

I have also harped on things such as basic skills, as well as learning how to approach studying, and learning how to approach a piece in practising, in all the stages.  If these skills are not there, and the teacher doesn't know how to give these skills, then he will say the same things over and over - the student goes home practising ineffectively week after week - the same problems appear over and over until the teacher "can't do it anymore".  What's left are the students who just naturally happen to have the right habits and skills, and the rest have "attitude problems" in the teacher's eyes.

The first step is to get at the root of the problem.  What is the problem?  What is it this teacher wants to see different?  What is going on here?

[pianograde13]

To the OP:

Since your teacher says he "cannot do it anymore", and you don't seem to know what he is referring to.  Two things:

1.  Think back to your lessons.  Are there things he keeps telling you to do, which you aren't doing?  If so, is it because you are following other priorities, or because you don't know how to do them?
- Has he complained about things you do or don't do in lessons?  Frequently?  The same kinds of things?

2.  Since he is frustrated and you are bewildered, then the obvious last ditch thing would be to find out what is going on.  What is it that you are doing that he wishes you wouldn't do?  What is it that you are not doing, that he wants you to do?  If you know about them, and don't do them, what is preventing you?

Students are not mind readers, and teachers are not always good at saying things.  Or they think they've said it.  Or they think it's so "obvious" that a student should figure it out.  Etc. etc. etc.

There is always the possibility that this teacher can teach students who naturally play well, but doesn't know how to transmit skills when they're not there - the pedal situation being a case in point.

I have also harped on things such as basic skills, as well as learning how to approach studying, and learning how to approach a piece in practising, in all the stages.  If these skills are not there, and the teacher doesn't know how to give these skills, then he will say the same things over and over - the student goes home practising ineffectively week after week - the same problems appear over and over until the teacher "can't do it anymore".  What's left are the students who just naturally happen to have the right habits and skills, and the rest have "attitude problems" in the teacher's eyes.

The first step is to get at the root of the problem.  What is the problem?  What is it this teacher wants to see different?  What is going on here?

Thank you for your constructive reply. In my lessons there has never things that he keeps telling me to do which I continue to do. I am absolutley not saying I am anyway near perfect but he has never been frustrated with me before. And in reply to other comments, he has never had a complaint about my practice. And I was bewildered at the time because I didn't understand what he was getting angry about. Through a conversation between my teacher and my parent afterward it has became apparent that my teacher had somehow thought when we came across the word vibrato and I said I didn't know how to do it, he misinterpreted my meaning to be, I shouldn't do it, or my school music teacher said he was wrong.    However my parent wasn't really aware what actually happened in the situation to explain. At this point my teacher was still very offended. It is quite difficult to understand how he withdrawed this conclusion from my words of I didn't know how to do it. My teacher is highly offended as he thinks I was challenging his obvious expertise. Even though he completley misunderstood my words I feel horrible for upsetting him. He has always been a nice good teacher. So his behaviour was completley out of character.   The main reason to post this problem to seek advice on what to do next, not to critisize my piano teacher or teachers in general, for that matter. (It seems from posts that people may feel as If I am) As this teacher has never had any faults before. I have decided not to return to the teacher, not because I dislike the teacher, but because I think it would be much better for both of us. It would be highly akward to return, and I haven't even been in contact since to explain myself.  At this point I do not think he would understand and there is not much point in doing so. I am now in search for a new teacher where I can get my grade and exam preparation continued. Thanks so much for all the advice!

[dcstudio]

I can be a bit cynical at times...  I do apologize--I have absolutely no way of knowing what happened in your lesson...   really--the bottom line is that it was not productive for whatever reason..  I would have seen things completely from your side at one time--but years and years of teaching has made me a bit grouchy... my earlier post referenced my experiences and may not apply in this case at all.

believe it or not teaching piano can be very stressful--especially at exam time.   Your scores are recorded and forever tied to your teachers name.   Parents tend to get demanding at this time as well--trying to schedule make-up lessons or just being a pain..lol   How long has he been teaching? if he is a very new to the business...it can be overwhelming.   Some parents will walk all over you if you let them. 

the important thing is YOU keep going-- and try not to take it personally if he was having a bad day.  There are many piano teachers out there.

[birba]

Not to change the subject, but what is a "mock"?

[sucom]

Several thoughts come to mind while reading this thread.  I'm having to make some assumptions so please correct me if I'm wrong.  I get the impression that you are not yet fully prepared for the practical exam but still working towards it.  If this is the case, why did the school music teacher offer a mock exam at this stage and also, why did he offer a mock exam at all if you are actually studying with a private teacher?  In what way is the school music teacher involved with your piano playing?

Also, the word 'vibrato' is rarely used in piano music.  In fact, I've never seen it on any music editions  I've ever played.  So I have to ask, was the word actually printed in your music or was it hand written in by your private teacher or your school music teacher?  This would be important to me in understanding why your private teacher is refusing to teach you.  I'm wondering just how involved your school music teacher is in your piano study and how much your piano teacher believes the school teacher is also involved.

I've very wary of instantly drawing conclusions that the piano teacher has lost it.  Generally there must be something that would provoke such a reaction in a teacher, especially a teacher who you say is usually good.  For me, I can't help thinking there must be more to this and that, from your posts, we are only seeing the tip of the iceburg.

[keypeg]

Sucom's questions make sense.  When different professionals in music are involved it can get complicated.

[p2u_]

Not to change the subject, but what is a "mock"?

A "mock" refers to a "mock exam" (= a simulated situation, a practise test).

Paul

[pianograde13]

I can be a bit cynical at times...  I do apologize--I have absolutely no way of knowing what happened in your lesson...   really--the bottom line is that it was not productive for whatever reason..  I would have seen things completely from your side at one time--but years and years of teaching has made me a bit grouchy... my earlier post referenced my experiences and may not apply in this case at all.

believe it or not teaching piano can be very stressful--especially at exam time.   Your scores are recorded and forever tied to your teachers name.   Parents tend to get demanding at this time as well--trying to schedule make-up lessons or just being a pain..lol   How long has he been teaching? if he is a very new to the business...it can be overwhelming.   Some parents will walk all over you if you let them. 

the important thing is YOU keep going-- and try not to take it personally if he was having a bad day.  There are many piano teachers out there.

No its absoloutley fine! Its is completley understandable that you would only react to a similair situation with your experinces of teaching. The scenario that I am in is very peculiar and I could understand that it could definetley come across as uncomprehendable. Anyways, the situation has been sorted, I have now got a new piano teacher, so all is resolved for now in terms of my issue! Thanks for positive advice! 

[pianograde13]

Several thoughts come to mind while reading this thread.  I'm having to make some assumptions so please correct me if I'm wrong.  I get the impression that you are not yet fully prepared for the practical exam but still working towards it.  If this is the case, why did the school music teacher offer a mock exam at this stage and also, why did he offer a mock exam at all if you are actually studying with a private teacher?  In what way is the school music teacher involved with your piano playing?

Also, the word 'vibrato' is rarely used in piano music.  In fact, I've never seen it on any music editions  I've ever played.  So I have to ask, was the word actually printed in your music or was it hand written in by your private teacher or your school music teacher?  This would be important to me in understanding why your private teacher is refusing to teach you.  I'm wondering just how involved your school music teacher is in your piano study and how much your piano teacher believes the school teacher is also involved.

I've very wary of instantly drawing conclusions that the piano teacher has lost it.  Generally there must be something that would provoke such a reaction in a teacher, especially a teacher who you say is usually good.  For me, I can't help thinking there must be more to this and that, from your posts, we are only seeing the tip of the iceburg.

Thanks for reply! You may have not noticed, however I stated yesterday that the issue has been resolved, and the intentions of the post have been met, thankfully! However I think I feel as if I may have struck a sensitive spot due to some slightly defensive responses. If so, apoligies! Therefore It's probably necessary to respond. Basically, I am/was preparing for a graded exam with my piano teacher. This is an out of school examination, just to clarify. However in school, we do academic exams called gcses. I am doing the subject music for a gcse. As part of the curriculum for a gcse music you have to do a solo performance which I think is 25% of your grade. I decided to play piano for this performance, and I chose a piece which I had done as part of my preparation for my outside of school piano exam. Therefore, as part of my school regulations, It was janruary, and considering my exams we in june, you have to do a gcse mock in all of your subjects. This is like a fake exam which consists of the things you would have to do if  you were doing the real exam. These mocks determine your predicted grade in the subject. Therefore, I had to do my solo performance which was the piece I chose for which I talked about. This is when my music teacher in school gave me comments. She did not teach me, she just pointed out improvements I needed to make, which she does to every single student. Therefore my music teacher isn't invloved in teaching me, she just made a comment on my pedalling techhnique. And the word vibrato, which I have only recently came across in piano, although I have in violin, is ink written in my piece. In my piano examinations you aren't allowed to add techniques in, you have to play it according to the sheet music. In writing this forum I was not trying to distinguish the whole "whos right and wrong" thing in my situation, or to try and blame a teacher or something along the lines of that. It feels as if  evidently some people may feel as If I was. If so, apoligies! It was not intended It was just to obtain advice when I was upest. Perhaps this is easier to understand at this point. However, nevertheless, I have thankfully retained a new piano teacher, so all is good at this point! Thanks for reply!

[keypeg]

Pianograde13, when these things come up, it is also a learning opportunity for all of us, because who knows who will come across what?  When I had lessons the first time in my life a decade ago, I knew nothing about that world, and would have been beneficial to know more.  There are things that come up - interactions - expectations - misunderstandings - ways of working - when you get it, a lot of things are easier.  I also discovered I wasn't alone.

I want to write some things later, but don't have the time right now.  Please do pop in.

[koopakool]

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

Vibrato right there at 01:13

lol

[kujiraya]

Now I want to be a piano examiner, just so I can make inane comments like, "Generally high standard of performance, but needs to work on the vibrato for the longer notes." KEKEKEKEKEKEKE

[keypeg]

I want to address some things that have come up in this thread.

First, some students feel responsible for making their teachers feel bad when lessons don't go well, and I don't know if teachers are aware of it.  Some things are the student's responsibility: if you are rude, ignore instructions and assignments (which says the teacher's input is worthless), say nasty things about him like that he's a moron - that's a reason to feel bad, and to apologize.  But if a student has difficulties and the teacher is frustrated, (for example), he may feel bad, but the student isn't responsible for "making" him feel bad.  But we do, and we shouldn't.

Meanwhile, a teacher has many students but for a student, this is the one and only teacher, and that can be very special.  If a teacher dismisses a student, how he does so can have a negative impact for years to come while it's not a big deal for the teacher - depending on how he handles it.  The OP has a commendable, mature attitude in that respect.  A good student may have been lost to this teacher.

The other thing is what we read about student behaviors that teachers encounter, and thus expect or "can predict".  I didn't know about this when I started as a student.  Here are things that (some) teachers say they often encounter:
- student wants to only have fun, play easy pieces
- student doesn't like to practice and doesn't practice
- student pretends that something is too hard, and feigns difficulty to get out of things
- student distracts with seemingly interested questions in order to avoid working in lesson

Knowing about these things can help an experienced teacher head off things.  For example, the "distracting questions" tactic which can derail lessons with an inexperienced teacher, won't wash with the experienced on - so they stay on track.  But at the same time, you get a mentality that says "If student does or says A, it means B." with commensurate distrust.  (This distrust can go two ways if a student has had a previous bad teacher).  I ran into this as a student.  When I was without a teacher I worked with a few teachers here and there.  I encountered, for example I didn't understand something and was told that I was "passive aggressive", or I was "lying" or "playing games".  Or the teacher just got angry for "no reason" leaving me perplexed.    Once I knew "what teachers often encounter", it started to make sense.  It's especially bad if you are an adult student, because the assumptions (experiences?) seem to be more.

As a student - esp. an older student - it is useful to know "what teachers encounter/expect" because then you can try not to give off those signals.  If asking questions is seen as "distracting", then you don't. Frankly, that sucks!  It's much better to be able to have open communication in lessons, rather than needing to be cautious.  Ofc student-teacher relationships need time to be established.

I'd say to both teachers and students and parents: don't make assumptions, don't think you can read minds, and do communicate!  

Meanwhile when you have a teacher, and then some other place with some other teacher such as happened here, I think things can get pretty dicey, and that must have happened here.  Regardless of the pressures of exams, or anything else, you don't kick a student out and then not communicate with that student.  The word "professional" means something, and teaching is a position of responsibility.  Here I am writing as a teacher, because I also am a trained teacher.

[sucom]

'The other thing is what we read about student behaviors that teachers encounter, and thus expect or "can predict".  I didn't know about this when I started as a student.  Here are things that (some) teachers say they often encounter:
- student wants to only have fun, play easy pieces
- student doesn't like to practice and doesn't practice
- student pretends that something is too hard, and feigns difficulty to get out of things
- student distracts with seemingly interested questions in order to avoid working in lesson'

I had to smile when I read this.  It's not just me, then, who encounters these things.

[keypeg]

'The other thing is what we read about student behaviors that teachers encounter, and thus expect or "can predict".  I didn't know about this when I started as a student.  Here are things that (some) teachers say they often encounter:
- student wants to only have fun, play easy pieces
- student doesn't like to practice and doesn't practice
- student pretends that something is too hard, and feigns difficulty to get out of things
- student distracts with seemingly interested questions in order to avoid working in lesson'

I had to smile when I read this.  It's not just me, then, who encounters these things.

It is something to smile about. On the other hand, it can lead to a problem if a teacher tries to read into a student's actions so that there is underlying miscommunication.  It can actually become destructive if a misperception persists, or just an unpleasant hiccup in one lesson.