Should I tell my teacher about this??

[mound]

I have learned an INCREDIBLE amount about how to practice and learn from reading and participating in this forum over the past few months and applying what I've learned to my own practice. My progress over the last 3 weeks alone has astonished me. At my last lesson,  my teacher was a bit puzzled that suddenly I was coming to my lesson with so much new material prepared, and ready for him to talk about expression/musicality etc..  I think many of the learning methods I've learned about from Bernhard and Chang are foreign to him.. Not all of them, there are definitely some parallels in so far as how to practice a given chunk, but all this really "life altering" stuff about the way to organize and plan for practice, the "7/20 rule", logging, all of this stuff, the stuff that's creating efficiency that is, is not something that I think he's aware of, otherwise he'd be teaching it. Again, as far as agogics, the art of it all, he's brilliant, but as I said, my progress is seeing leaps and bounds improvement now that I'm really understanding these learning techniques.

I feel like I'm cheating on him in a way! 

I also know that he is very busy with his job as the director of music ministry at his church, and he's an accomplished player in his own right, so far be it from me to suggest to him practice methods, I know he'd never sit and read through all of this material, he just has no time, plus computers aren't "his thing" (though a book he'd read I'm sure    .  I feel like I should just keep internalizing  and using what I'm learing here, use him for the great "music" teaching that he's so good at, and keep doing what I'm doing, since trying to explalin all of this that I'm learning, well, what would be the point?

Thoughts?

cya!
-Paul

[mosis]

I have learned an INCREDIBLE amount about how to practice and learn from reading and participating in this forum over the past few months and applying what I've learned to my own practice. My progress over the last 3 weeks alone has astonished me. At my last lesson,  my teacher was a bit puzzled that suddenly I was coming to my lesson with so much new material prepared, and ready for him to talk about expression/musicality etc..  I think many of the learning methods I've learned about from Bernhard and Chang are foreign to him.. Not all of them, there are definitely some parallels in so far as how to practice a given chunk, but all this really "life altering" stuff about the way to organize and plan for practice, the "7/20 rule", logging, all of this stuff, the stuff that's creating efficiency that is, is not something that I think he's aware of, otherwise he'd be teaching it. Again, as far as agogics, the art of it all, he's brilliant, but as I said, my progress is seeing leaps and bounds improvement now that I'm really understanding these learning techniques.

I feel like I'm cheating on him in a way! 

I also know that he is very busy with his job as the director of music ministry at his church, and he's an accomplished player in his own right, so far be it from me to suggest to him practice methods, I know he'd never sit and read through all of this material, he just has no time, plus computers aren't "his thing" (though a book he'd read I'm sure    .  I feel like I should just keep internalizing  and using what I'm learing here, use him for the great "music" teaching that he's so good at, and keep doing what I'm doing, since trying to explalin all of this that I'm learning, well, what would be the point?

Thoughts?

cya!
-Paul

I am lucky enough to have a teacher that knows about most of these practice methods. However, he does not go into them with as much detail as Bernhard, and I often have to pry them out of him. Also, he's not so strict about the planning in piano, and although he does use it, it's not to the extent of 5 years and more just breaking up the pieces (I have to do this, he doesn't do it for me). However, next week, I'm going to try to get him to help me more with my practice. Right now, all is going well, so I guess he's not telling me because I don't "need it," per se. But he's quite aware of Chang and the 7/20 rule. I'm lucky that I found him just this summer.

[mound]

I wondered if maybe he knew this stuff and just thought I "didn't need it" - but I sprinkled into our discussions some of these concepts, not "so and so told me I should try this" rather, "this is what I tried" - the repeated note group was a perfect example, I got a strange look like "uhh, ok, whatever works for you"

-Paul

[djbrak]

Cheater!!!
just kidding...I feel that way sometimes with my teacher.  You should just tell him you read this stuff on the forum otherwise they will think you are cheating on them with another teacher.

What's the 7/20 rule?
-Renato

[BoliverAllmon]

7 repeats 20 minutes. It is mentioned all over the place here. just seach for it.

[Spatula]

I do 8/35 ...I am a slow learner 

[BoliverAllmon]

oh and I cheat on my teacher already. I have another one on the side she doesn't know of yet.

[bernhard]

Cheater!!!
just kidding...I feel that way sometimes with my teacher.  You should just tell him you read this stuff on the forum otherwise they will think you are cheating on them with another teacher.

What's the 7/20 rule?
-Renato

There are several threads where this is discussed. These are probably the most helpful :

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2526.msg21829.html#msg21829
(how to organise piano practise in short/medium/long term – Principle of memory retention – Principle of 15 minute sessions – stopping when you achieve your goals. Teachers should teach how to learn)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3039.msg26525.html#msg26525
(how big are your hands, and does it matter?  thread about 7 x 20 minutes –  exercise/activities to strengthen the playing apparatus – ways to deal with wide chords – myth that Richter was self-taught – 3 stages of learning – Example: Chopin militaire Polonaise- scientific principles for testing practice methods – Example: Prelude in F#m from WTC1 – when to join hands and why HS – practice is improvement – the principle of “easy” – Example: Chopin’s ballade no. 4 – repeated groups)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4105.msg37603.html#msg37603
(Do age and practice time matter? – Summaries of the 7 x 20 approach  – need for a practice diary – how to deal with mastering something and forgetting it next day – what exactly is mastery – the 3 stages of mastery)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3561.msg31700.html#msg31700
(7 X 20 principle, how do you know when you mastered a section, when to use the methods, and when they are not necessary – investigating the reasons for difficult).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Spatula]

Can you do 8/35?  It works for moi.

so I hope bernie doesn't lay down the law.

[BoliverAllmon]

remember you are going to be your best teacher. every pianist is different. All teaching techniques will need to be tweaked for all students.

[mound]

Can you do 8/35?  It works for moi.

so I hope bernie doesn't lay down the law.

Yes, if you read more of his posts, you'll see he says "7 +/- 2" - the theory is based on psychology studies of how many repeats it takes somebody to learn. So yes, 8 would seem acceptable. 7 is the average. I believe I read in moer than one of his posts as well that "30 minutes is fine to, I've gotten away with as little as 10"..

so yes, if you have tried it and found that 8/35 is what works for you, I'd say go with it! (Bernhard, slap me down if I'm wrong!) - if you were to say "25/120"  (or even 10/20) I'd say you were wrong.

-Paul