Achieving curved hand position

[bernadette60614]

I had never noticed that my fingers are "flat" and that, in fact, my little finger actually sticks out when I play.

How can I work on making the curved finger position more a "natural"? When playing my one piece, should I slow down, watch my fingers and make achieving a curved hand throughout a goal on the same level as playing the piece well?

[keypeg]

Please look something up on the subject.  Achieving a curved hand position is not something that is recommended anymore.  Discussions on the subject should help you further.   

[nyiregyhazi]

Please look something up on the subject.  Achieving a curved hand position is not something that is recommended anymore.  Discussions on the subject should help you further.  

I think that's rather oversimplified. Good pianists ought to be fine either with curved fingers or flat ones. Having only one option shows limitations. I wrote a little about this issue in the end of my most recent blog post. Basically, curvED fingers shouldn't mean curvING. The problem comes when you actively curve and strive to curve further still. What you need is for whichever finger played last to get the knuckles up (often by extending out to almost full length- not by curving itself) and secure a quality of balance. From there, the fingers can hang down in a natural curve and by uncurling them you can play in a very healthy way. The mistake is to hear about curved fingers and assume that means you're supposed to be trying to make them curve. That comes as a natural result of good connection to the piano- not as a result of trying to force curvature to occur.

Personally, I don't mind the idea of an orange/mouse whatever under the hand. The key is that you realise that this is the start and following actions should OPEN- not continue to grip inwards against nothing or close up further still. Problems occur when you continue with the same action that should only have been something to create the starter position. It's very low effort when you realise the follow up actions are actually about opening and not either fixing the position or attempting to close up further still.

[keypeg]

I think that's rather oversimplified.

Yes, it was simplified.  I suggested that the OP do research on the subject since a lot has been written about it.  Nothing wrong with that.

[nyiregyhazi]

Yes, it was simplified.  I suggested that the OP do research on the subject since a lot has been written about it.  Nothing wrong with that.

Sure, but my point is that the value of curved remains very widely recommended. There's nothing even close to a consensus that this in inherently negative.

[teran]

Cup a tennis ball in your hand.

[j_menz]

Cup a tennis ball in your hand.

Or, if you're going to read all the related posts on here, a large glass of scotch.

[outin]

Or, if you're going to read all the related posts on here, a large glass of scotch.

I think I would need the whole bottle...

Anyway, I think my favorite was "Imagine holding a little bird in your hand"... Ever tried holding a bird? They are pretty strong and twisty and you really need a firm grip...unless it's a dead bird 

[fleetfingers]

I don't think it's so much about "achieving" a curved hand position as it is about using the tips of your fingers rather than the pads (which generally results in curved fingers/hands). This gives you more range of motion within each finger, which will allow more control when playing fast and/or intricate finger passages. Ask your teacher if the piece you are playing would benefit from a change in technique, and if overall he/she would advise you to move upward toward your fingertips.

[nyiregyhazi]

I think I would need the whole bottle...

Anyway, I think my favorite was "Imagine holding a little bird in your hand"... Ever tried holding a bird? They are pretty strong and twisty and you really need a firm grip...unless it's a dead bird  

I think it's bypicturing such a firm grip that these things become harmful. Interestingly, I'd gone against gripping inward altogether for months, to great benefit. I had some lessons recently with alan fraser where he spoke of grasping and there was also great benefit to returning to some grip.

BUT this grip was extremely slight! Previously, I'd used to overdo it, with no sense of clear purpose. All the time I spent only opening stripped away all the needless efforts against nothing in particular and put me in a position where I could feel what just a tiny trace of grip actually achieves. I can't overstate how subtle it is compared to actually closing something into the hand. If you just grip against imaginary resistance it tends to be too stiff and not fitted to a true purpose.

[keypeg]

Sure, but my point is that the value of curved remains very widely recommended. There's nothing even close to a consensus that this in inherently negative.

Your point was that of finding something that I did not say, and arguing against it.  Almost all of your posts do that.

[nyiregyhazi]

Your point was that of finding something that I did not say, and arguing against it.  Almost all of your posts do that.

"Achieving a curved hand position is not something that is recommended anymore."

It's there for all to see that I argued against precisely what you did say. That is a very coarse generalisation that neither stands as the prevailing tendency in modern technique nor the firm consensus portrayed in the unequivocally absolute wording. I'm sorry if it troubles you, but when you word it that way it merits response. It would be terrible if the poster saw that and then assumed they obviously don't need to learn to play with a curved shape, because they thought there is now a consensus that a curved shape has been deemed as bad (as your words suggest in definitive rather than merely suggestive terms) .

People only see the words we write in the way we write them- not sentiments that might have been intended but which were not stated in the wording. Please don't complain that I saw fit to offer a more balanced view of the issues than that which you portrayed in the totally unequivocal language quoted above. There's a difference between arguing against what you didn't say and arguing against what you had perhaps not intended to state- yet did indeed state, due to your choice of language. If you want to retract that then, by all means do- but please don't complain that I take reasonable issue with such words, or imply that I somehow twisted your words. I did not.

[pts1]

Chopin advised his students to place their hands lightly on the following keys:

E  F# G# A# C

This he considered the group of piano keys that fit the hand the best.

This he regarded as the basic position, from which one varied their position based on what needed to be played.

It all depends on what you're playing. Sometimes the fingers may be very curved and at others virtually flat, all depending on what configurations are played.

So trying to have "curved" fingers as a goal is unnatural and undesirable since it doesn't further the goal of actually playing real pieces.

Start with Chopin's idea and go from there on an as needed basis.

[nyiregyhazi]

So trying to have "curved" fingers as a goal is unnatural and undesirable since it doesn't further the goal of actually playing real pieces.

Start with Chopin's idea and go from there on an as needed basis.

How can you tell when you need them if you can't achieve them? Curved fingers are a perfectly reasonable goal- as long as they are not taken as a goal at all times. A person who hasn't learned how to access them needs to. Approaching it from both ends makes it way easier to get flatter fingers working well too. Those who can only access flat fingers usually have very lazy finger movements and squash down too hard with the arm- with too much pressure to get the hand properly opened up. When you are used to getting the hand open and lightening the pressure, the fingers will move more freely from flatter positions too.