Composers you wish had lived longer

[roncesvalles]

Lately I've been playing a lot of Chopin's work from the 1840s, and, aside from lesser works like the Tarantelle, I've come to enjoy a good many of them more than his earlier work.  Perhaps there is less ardor, less youthful passion, but his compositions from the period seemed to be building up, crystallizing, becoming more contrapuntal.  I can't help but wish he had lived to pen another set of Preludes (perhaps Preludes and Fugues) or Etudes, informed by his greater life and intellectual experience.

On the other hand there is Scriabin.  His late music, to me, is among the most intense of all music.  He died at the cusp of a great transformation of his country, a transformation that turned out disappointing, even lethal for some creative artists.  In his sketches for the Mysterium are many "12-tone" sonorities--large chords with all tones of the chromatic scale, but with different distributions (which make them harmonically quite different).  It seems to me like he had little room to tread, as he was exhausting the harmonic possibilities of our tuning system, that his creative mind would be forced into greater examination of form and timbre.  While he did express fascination with other tunings, and some scholars believed he might've chosen to compose microtonally, given the time--unless his presence would've altered the politico-artistic environment of Russia in the 1920s, he would only have a good ten to twelve years of composing before censure became so intense and dangerous that he would likely have had to double back on his ideals or keep his work private. 


I'd be interested to see other people's opinions--which composers seemed to be just on the cusp of something, and which ones, even if they had untimely deaths, seemed to reach a maximum of expression which would be both difficult to sustain and to further develop?

[redbaron]

Not so much that he had lived longer (he made it to 91 after all...) but I wish that Sibelius had been a more active composer in later life, it being well known that he barely wrote anything in the last thirty years of his life. He gave us the beautiful Characteristic Impressions Op 103 and then the equally sublime Esquisses Op 114 and then... nothing. His piano style was truly approaching something wonderful by this time.

[chopianologue]

Chopin!!! Actually from op.9 to the end, his works are all amazing. 39 years, too young for death...

Mozart!!! Latest works are magical... Requiem is a grand final. 35 years, too young for death...

Schubert!!! He is a absolute genius! More than a thousand pieces, fascinating melodies... Winterreise, the famous Ave Maria, symphonies, lieds...
31 years. Death after the funeral of Beethoven. Just tragic...
I always remember him with sadness.

[j_menz]

Carl Tausig.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Carl Tausig.

Absolutely.

Liszt - his late music is so in advance of its time it would have been quite fascinating to see how it would have developed.

[thesixthsensemusic]

Julius Reubke. His one surviving piano sonata and the Scherzo for piano are two of my favourite works of the Romantic era. Apart from him, I would say it's a real shame Adolf von Henselt quit composing at such an early age (30, he lived to be 74).

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Stanchinsky.

Enough said...

[chadbrochill17]

Chopin of course. Mendelssohn as well.

[perprocrastinate]

Chopin and Ravel.

[landru]

Alban Berg. Maybe he would have set a better example than Schoenberg to the academic serialists that infested almost the rest of the century that 12-tone composing can be incredible music.

And "Lulu"....just wow.

[j_menz]

Stanchinsky.

Agreed.

Alban Berg. Maybe he would have set a better example than Schoenberg to the academic serialists that infested almost the rest of the century that 12-tone composing can be incredible music.

Hmm. Sow's ear, silk purse, methinks.

[thalbergmad]

Ernst Mielck, William Baines & Cecil Coles.

Thal

[andreslr6]

Scriabin too, I would´ve liked if he had written chamber music given the time too, but maybe he was just not interested.

Berg too, something else besides his piano sonata and the songs.

[zezhyrule]

Lili Boulanger.

[kriatina]

Purcell, Mozart & John Field,

and the teachers/interpreters Thurston Dart and Ross Scott.

[albertus_magnus]

Chopin!!! Actually from op.9 to the end, his works are all amazing. 39 years, too young for death...

Mozart!!! Latest works are magical... Requiem is a grand final. 35 years, too young for death...

Agree.

[kakeithewolf]

Chopin, Mozart, and Beethoven. Those ones are without question.

Both Chopin and Mozart died before 40, which is unfortunate, as they were so brilliant and prodigious. Beethoven died at 57, and while that's not very young, it's not too old. For a man of his genius, it is a shame he could not have had a decade or two more to his life.

[g_s_223]

+1 for Reubke, we have just two major works, both remarkable.

Also Jehan Alain, another fascinating composer.

[korlock]

Hey has anyone said Mozart or Chopin yet? 
-Schubert obviously. Not so much for the fact that I wanted more music from him, but for the fact that I wish he tasted a bit of success from his hard work.
-I would have loved to have seen Rachmaninoff live a bit longer. Not that he died young its just that film and audio was developing and I would have loved to have seen some live recordings of him.
-Alexei Stanchinsky. He suffered from mental problems and died most likely from suicide at 26. If he had lived longer, we probably would be as comfortable with his name as we are with Scriabin, Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev.

[pianist1976]

Elliott Carter

[thalbergmad]

Krappyhorshoe Snorabji

[slobone]

All of them! Oh, except Liszt. I think we had enough of him.

[ahinton]

Krappyhorshoe Snorabji

Never heard of him/her; what did he/she write and how short was his/her life?

I can't quite believe that more than a score of posts have already been made to this thread with no mention yet of Mahler or Tchaikovsky!

Then there's Lekeu. And Magnard. And Barraqué. And Zimmermann. And (Bill) Hopkins. And what about Heseltine? (i.e. "Peter Warlock")?

Field didn't exactly have a great innings, either; I don't know about Britch, though and must assume that he's an even more obscure composer than the "Krappyhorshoe Snorabji" whom you mention.

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

I can't quite believe that more than a score of posts have already been made to this thread with no mention yet of Mahler

Indeed! At least until 1933, or longer if he was in the US for good by then. He'd been able to give us something to ponder...
And I would love to have Bruckner's Ninth fully complete and that 'Gothic' Tenth he spoke of.

or Tchaikovsky!

Be they Piotr, Boris, André or Alexander (the latter still lives, insofar I know)

Hans Rott. Dmitri Shostakovich.

JS Bach!! Only reached 65. Imagine what he might have written when he had lived as long as Telemann! Or else I would settle for the turning up of all the works now lost. The other 10-15 violin concerto's might be nice to hear, or the other 100+ cantatas (not to mention the 'worldy' ones)...

*sigh*

All best,
gep

[ahinton]

Hans Rott. Dmitri Shostakovich.

Indeed - in both cases!

JS Bach!! Only reached 65. Imagine what he might have written when he had lived as long as Telemann! Or else I would settle for the turning up of all the works now lost. The other 10-15 violin concerto's might be nice to hear, or the other 100+ cantatas (not to mention the 'worldy' ones)...

*sigh*

All best,
gep

Ah, the Nederlandse Bach Society makes a most welcome return to these pages! Never mind Telemann, imagine what Bach might have done had He not merely lived to but enjoyed a creative working life up to the age at which Elliott Carter had to stop! What might he have made of Mozart and Haydn, to say nothing of the young Beethoven?! And what might He have composed?...

It's interesting to think of Bruckner's Ninth Symphony as being dedicated to Bach; afer all, it's not only Mauricio Kagel's famous remark about Bach and God that's pertinent here, for others have observed that they had considered themselves to be atheists until discovering Bach.

I have tried to imagine what it would have been like to compose the openings of the Bach Passions; I have failed dismally, for there is no way that I know of even to begin to define this...

But yes - Elliott Carter! At least he could justify the need for some more time because he was still up and at it until less than three months before his untimely demise, even a the age of almost 104 continuing constantly to reinvent himself!...

Best,

Alistair

[pianoplunker]

I'd be interested to see other people's opinions--which composers seemed to be just on the cusp of something, and which ones, even if they had untimely deaths, seemed to reach a maximum of expression which would be both difficult to sustain and to further develop?

I know this question is tailored around famous composers of classical music but for me this question fits perfectly with my opinion of John Lennon's music after he left the Beatles. His music had developed so much meaning .It still shocks me he is gone . But his music makes me feel he is not gone. I honestly think he deserves to be included with all the other great composers mentioned here

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Hey has anyone said Mozart or Chopin yet? 
-Schubert obviously. Not so much for the fact that I wanted more music from him, but for the fact that I wish he tasted a bit of success from his hard work.
-I would have loved to have seen Rachmaninoff live a bit longer. Not that he died young its just that film and audio was developing and I would have loved to have seen some live recordings of him.
-Alexei Stanchinsky. He suffered from mental problems and died most likely from suicide at 26. If he had lived longer, we probably would be as comfortable with his name as we are with Scriabin, Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev.

His first sonata in F major is better.

Anyways, Stanchinsky was a freaking BOSS!!!  He played NOOOOOOOOOOOO games!!!  He's definitely one of my favorites.  Top 5 for sure. 

Too bad he was crazy.

How come all the good composers are crazy?!

[outin]

How come all the good composers are crazy?!

Just like with good painters or writers, there's a fine line between vivid imagination and grazyness...

Have you started composing your sonata for Valentina yet? 

[starlady]

I wish that JS Bach had lived long enough to see the piano come into its own, and to compose specifically for the piano.  Another couple of decades would have done it.

I also wish that Mussorgsky had written more, for which he would have had to get sober.

--s. 

   

[g_s_223]

Er, well Schubert has to be the #1 here. The mind boggles at what might have emerged later...

[kriatina]

...not to forget Schumann and Carl Maria von Weber.

I feel both of them had so much to say but unfortunately
their life has been cut short by illness and terrible misfortune.

Unfortunately the work of Carl Maria von Weber is often represented as "massive"
but I don't feel he ever wanted to be represented like that at all.
(I feel he was much too sensitive to be "massive")

Had he lived longer we might have had a chance to follow Carl Maria von Weber's
further development as a great pianist (he was in his time a great example to other pianists)
and as a great composer.

[forte88]

Pergolesi, lived only to 26 and one of the Baroque greats IMO

[/youtube]

[kriatina]

I wish that JS Bach had lived long enough to see the piano come into its own, and to compose specifically for the piano.  Another couple of decades would have done it.

I also wish that Mussorgsky had written more, for which he would have had to get sober.

--s. 

   

I agree with starlady about Johann Sebstian Bach.

I was reading that he searched for an instrument with a better tonality throughout his life
because he felt that some of the church organ's were coming over as "heavy"
and harpsichords lacked some expression.
 
From what I was reading, Bach was searching for an instrument with a tonality
that could give him an opportunity and a chance to express his tonality better.

 

[thalbergmad]

...not to forget Schumann

I am trying to.

He lived too long by about 46 years.

Thal

[roncesvalles]

Thanks for your responses.  There are several composers I haven't heard before, which will make for some interesting searching.

Since Peter Warlock was mentioned, I should mention Gesualdo, whose last two (complete) books of madrigals fascinate me.  Given the 'new' fashion of monodic song coming into vogue towards his later years and that his only catalogued 'aria' is no longer extant, I would be intrigued to see how he would treat a single voice, if he could distill the intensity of some of his ensemble works to a single voice.  There is one work for keyboard attributed to him, but I also wonder what this music would have become, were he given more time in the genre--especially,since he played it, pieces written for the archicembalo, which was capable of microtonal intervals. 

[kriatina]

Thanks for your responses.  There are several composers I haven't heard before, which will make for some interesting searching.

Since Peter Warlock was mentioned, I should mention Gesualdo, whose last two (complete) books of madrigals fascinate me.  Given the 'new' fashion of monodic song coming into vogue towards his later years and that his only catalogued 'aria' is no longer extant, I would be intrigued to see how he would treat a single voice, if he could distill the intensity of some of his ensemble works to a single voice.  There is one work for keyboard attributed to him, but I also wonder what this music would have become, were he given more time in the genre--especially,since he played it, pieces written for the archicembalo, which was capable of microtonal intervals. 

Since “Peter Warlock” was mentioned I would like to know
if there is anyone who has studied him & his music more closely to explain ?

I am very confused by the contradiction of his life and his music and can’t quite work it out.
 
Thanks from Kristina.

[drexo]

Antonio Fragoso, who only lived 21 years..

[kriatina]

Johann Schobert ~1720 - 28th August 1767

German harpsichordist/composer who studied at Strassbourg and obtained the post,
against severe competition, of organist at Versailles.

Whilst composing, he was also employed by the Prince of Conti as harpsichordist
and "Master of Music" whilst publishing his compositions
He was referred to as a "poet on the harpsichord" and had a great influence on Mozart,
and was mentioned in Mozart's biography by Saint-Fox.

Johann Schobert's early death became a controversial mystery when Johann Schobert, his family
and a few friends died through mushroom poisening which came from the forest of Saint Germain.

[thalbergmad]

Excellent, I never thought Schobert would get a mention on this forum.

Thal

[promusician]

Carl filtsch,pupil of chopin..

[slobone]

George Gershwin. A great American composer whose classical pieces I hope by this point don't need any defense. A lot of terrific stuff for piano, for orchestra, and Porgy and Bess is still the greatest American opera. He died not only young but unexpectedly. Who knows what he could have done if he had lived -- at the time of his death he was working on a string quartet.

[kriatina]

Excellent, I never thought Schobert would get a mention on this forum.

Thal

Thank you, Thal for your kind thoughts.

Another composer who died very young is the American Louis Moreau Gottschalk.
I once listened to some of his thoughts played on an antique square piano
and it sounded very beautiful.

Gottschalk's bad luck as a pianist/composer started after his father went bancrupt
and the whole family was left with nothing.
That took away all the security Louis Moreau Gottschalk needed as an artist.

[ahinton]

George Gershwin. A great American composer whose classical pieces I hope by this point don't need any defense. A lot of terrific stuff for piano, for orchestra, and Porgy and Bess is still the greatest American opera. He died not only young but unexpectedly. Who knows what he could have done if he had lived -- at the time of his death he was working on a string quartet.

Indeed - having only just financed in full the world première recording of the fourth string quartet by his friend Schönberg.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Another composer who died very young is the American Louis Moreau Gottschalk.
I once listened to some of his thoughts played on an antique square piano
and it sounded very beautiful.

I once went to a concert at Finchcocks Piano Museum here in Kent/England and Richard Burnett the owner, played Gottschalk on a piano the composer was likely to have used.

I was surprised at the quality of the sound.

Thal

[slobone]

Indeed - having only just financed in full the world première recording of the fourth string quartet by his friend Schönberg.

Best,

Alistair

Schoenberg was Gershwin's teacher as well as his friend. Schoenberg interestingly enough was firmly rooted in traditional harmony and counterpoint and even wrote textbooks about them. He wasn't some wild-ass avant garde musician.

[kriatina]

I once went to a concert at Finchcocks Piano Museum here in Kent/England and Richard Burnett the owner, played Gottschalk on a piano the composer was likely to have used.

I was surprised at the quality of the sound.

Thal

Yes, Richard Burnett is the very pianist I heard play Gottschalk’s  “Le Bananier (chanson negre), La Savane (ballade creole), Berceuse etc. on his 19th century pianos by Graf, Erard and Broadwood.

Richard Burnett comes over as a great ambassador and inspiring spokesperson for all the keyboard instruments he has collected & restored in his Museum of Historical Keyboard
Instruments and Centre of Education.

He also gives the listener a very good insight how to care for these instruments
and he certainly knows how to make them all sing beautifully when he plays.

[celegorma]

...not to forget Schumann

Only if he agrees not to compose more symphonies and piano sonatas

[kriatina]

Another composer who died very young was J. Clarke (~1670 -1707).
He was an organist and his most famous composition is "The Prince of Denmark's March".

[kriatina]

Another composer worth mentioning is Giovanni Battista Pergolesi (1710 -1736)
His six trio sonatas (two violins, a cello and a harpsichord) are well worth listening to.

It is unknown why he died at the age of 26. Rumour has it he was poisoned.

By the 20th century Pergolesi was almost forgotten and composers like Stravinsky
incorporated, utilized and "stravinskysized" some of Pergolesis original compositions.