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How Free is your country? (Read 2481 times)

Offline p2u_

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #50 on: February 22, 2013, 07:04:25 AM »
There is no problems in my mind thus what you say does not make sense to many others.

I was not talking about YOUR mind in particular. I said "most", referring to the average reader. Do you want to say that your opinion is also the opinion of MOST readers? ("thus")

Paul
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #51 on: February 22, 2013, 07:06:14 AM »
Let's say I posted 100 links about how black people were ruining society: discuss.

How many 'unintelligent people' would call me racist? You are posting slanderous comments, many of which are factually incorrect. you don't bother fact checking yet throw them out here anyway claiming them as discussion points. Accusations are not discussions.

When was the last time you went to a sporting event in the US? How were you treated by security? What freedoms were ripped from you the moment you stepped foot on our soil?
How does this have any relevance to this thread? It doesn't. Also you are only ONE opinion you are not the king of a country or a president speaking for a country. You are welcome to your opinion but that is not going to stop me from voicing my own interests. You have to learn to deal with it lol.



How is that crazy?
Well you told me to call you crazy, it wasn't my choice. I thought you like getting your way?
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #52 on: February 22, 2013, 07:09:21 AM »
I was not talking about YOUR mind in particular. I said "most", referring to the average reader. Do you want to say that your opinion is also the opinion of MOST readers? ("thus")
This has nothing to do with this thread please stay on topic.
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Offline p2u_

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #53 on: February 22, 2013, 07:19:14 AM »
This has nothing to do with this thread please stay on topic.

This has to do with how you set up an argument in this topic, so I think it's perfectly on topic. But OK, it's your topic. You decide. :)

Paul
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #54 on: February 22, 2013, 07:21:22 AM »
OK, it's your topic. You decide. :)
Decide what? I have already decided to share what I want to share without your permission long before you ever existed here.
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Offline p2u_

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #55 on: February 22, 2013, 07:22:40 AM »
Decide what? I have already decided to share what I want to share without your permission long before you ever existed here.

Hate speech. Yeah, so I noticed.

Paul
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #56 on: February 22, 2013, 08:04:06 AM »
So what do parents who have no money to afford baby sitting do when they need to go shopping? Leave their children in the car with the aircon running? lol

Kids should be gagged and then chained to the railings along with the push bikes.

Noisy little gits.

Thal
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #57 on: February 22, 2013, 08:07:09 AM »
My Country (England) is pretty free.

You can only be jailed for speeding and saying anything negative about Islam.

Apart from that, you can do pretty much what you want.

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Online ahinton

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #58 on: February 22, 2013, 09:35:05 AM »
Kids should be gagged and then chained to the railings along with the push bikes.

Noisy little gits.
Leaving aside that even you were a child once (at least as far as I am aware), who would do the gagging and chaining and for how long - and who would pay all of the costs of the ensuing legal action for cruelty to pushbikes that would inevitably be mounted against whoever did it?

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Alistair
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Online ahinton

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #59 on: February 22, 2013, 09:39:08 AM »
My Country (England) is pretty free.

You can only be jailed for speeding and saying anything negative about Islam.

Apart from that, you can do pretty much what you want.
England isn't "my" country, although I live in it; the fact that I am a Scot neither prompts nor entitles me to regard Scotland as "my" country either, since I neither own it nor have shares in it.

I am no expert on legal or judicial matters but, having lived for quite a large proportion of my life in Scotland, England and now Herefordistan, I have to say that it had never occurred to me that exceeding the legal speed limit and public insults to Islam are the only offences in Britain for which one can be jailed. It's a good thing that it's not true.

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Alistair
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Offline p2u_

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #60 on: February 22, 2013, 11:15:19 AM »
lloyd_cdb and p2u you both need to realize are are only one voice, your horse is quite high. I merely throw down ideas and thoughts and people can make their own assessment. You both however fear that if people don't see it IN YOUR WAY that there is something going on which needs to be quashed. Thanks for bumping my threads.

The fact that some members think I am against the US is fine, you are welcome to your unintelligent opinion. The fact that I say I am not anti-US will also be not accepted by the minority of trouble makers here on pianostreet, as if they know what I think better than myself? You are conspiracy theorists through and through if you do not take my word for it. lol double standards much?

That is a grave misrepresentation of two people's true intentions and contributions.

You start a topic about "freedom" and immediately confuse it by citing Bush, mentioning a dreadful prison on a US military base, citing from a tabloid resource to illustrate your point, etc. What had you expected after the "Did-the-US-attack-itself" BS in the other thread?

I gave you a clear definition of what I think freedom is. I also gave you the framework of responsibility that limits freedom. Instead of addressing it, you prefer to throw crap around. What exactly is your problem? Why don't you understand that we are not attacking you personally or your opinions, but only the generalisations you create based on flaws in your reasoning?

Besides, two times in a row you misquote my signature as a so-called reply to reasonable argumentation. How is anybody to take you seriously after such cheap tactics?

Everybody who does not share your opinion is a "troublemaker"? Let me see: that's most likely N., that's Lloyd, and that's me. Oh, I forgot the 14-year old girl, littletune, you beat up before an audience with your non-arguments in the "Would you rather" thread. Unfortunately, I was away at that time, because I wouldn't have tolerated that either.

Now you also state that it's we who "have fear", it's we who are the "conspiracy thinkers" etc. What makes you think that? As a matter of fact, when I start attacking BS arguments, I have this motto:

Quote from: Sun Tzu
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.

If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.

If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

I just cannot tolerate your misrepresentations of facts and people's real intentions anymore. Either you address the concerns or you keep silent. That is also part of freedom: the freedom to take responsible decisions for yourself and the community.

Paul
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #61 on: February 22, 2013, 12:01:38 PM »
That is a grave misrepresentation of two people's true intentions and contributions.

You start a topic about "freedom" and immediately confuse it by citing Bush, mentioning a dreadful prison on a US military base, citing from a tabloid resource to illustrate your point, etc. What had you expected after the "Did-the-US-attack-itself" BS in the other thread?
Guantanamo is recognized throughout the world as being a place absent of justice. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is not an opinion but a fact that even the president Barack said was not a good thing for the country. So please do not twist my words to fit your own negative opinions. Please share some opinion about freedom instead of incessantly arguing about nothing.


I gave you a clear definition of what I think freedom is. I also gave you the framework of responsibility that limits freedom. Instead of addressing it, you prefer to throw crap around. What exactly is your problem? Why don't you understand that we are not attacking you personally or your opinions, but only the generalisations you create based on flaws in your reasoning?
You don't have take it so personally that someone doesn't want to talk to you about something. Maybe what you have to say doesn't interest them and it is their freedom to ignore you. If you don't like it that is not my problem.


Besides, two times in a row you misquote my signature as a so-called reply to reasonable argumentation. How is anybody to take you seriously after such cheap tactics?
I have the freedom to say what I want and if I don't want to argue I have the right to say that any way I like so long it is not offensive. I am not being offensive so please don't try to twist my words as you tend to do for some unknown reason.

Everybody who does not share your opinion is a "troublemaker"? Let me see: that's most likely N., that's Lloyd, and that's me. Oh, I forgot the 14-year old girl, littletune, you beat up before an audience with your non-arguments in the "Would you rather" thread. Unfortunately, I was away at that time, because I wouldn't have tolerated that either.
Irrelevant arguing. You try to make argument out of nothing at all and then are surprised why I don't want to entertain your opinions? I have the freedom to ignore whatever you say and move on. I have the freedom to think whoever I like is troublemakers and I did not name any names, are you feeling guilty? Please stop putting words into my internet mouth :)

Now you also state that it's we who "have fear", it's we who are the "conspiracy thinkers" etc. What makes you think that? As a matter of fact, when I start attacking BS arguments, I have this motto:
You have no opinion but to argue my opinion with me. I don't want to argue and you get hurt over it lol. That is not my problem. Putting question to everything I say as if there is some evil hidden meaning behind it is stupid. It has already been pointed out I am not anti US and happily will strike down my own country for its terrible past. If my interest is in the super powers of this world that is  my freedom to do so.

I just cannot tolerate your misrepresentations of facts and people's real intentions anymore. Either you address the concerns or you keep silent. That is also part of freedom: the freedom to take responsible decisions for yourself and the community.
There is no evidence of any misinterpretation of facts in this thread. Everything discussed is true and has happened, it is not conspiracy thinking. Whatever I choose to piece together my discussion is up to me, I have the freedom to choose what I like and in this thread what I have chosen is acceptable mainstream media knowledge.

If you disagree that prisons in the US are not overpopulated and that Guantanamo is perfectly ok to exist, then argue your point. There is not any use to say that I am wrong and base your entire discussion on that, that is empty, meaningless, you are not going to EVER change my opinion.
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Offline p2u_

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #62 on: February 22, 2013, 12:22:34 PM »
...

I'm not going to argue every point you make because I don't want to look like a fool, trying to explain the obvious to everyone. I'm flabbergasted by the sheer absence of logical links in your replies to what you actually cite. I understand this as a rare case of confusion and a deep desire to evade what is actually under discussion.

Also: a prison is not exactly a place to show as an example of how the absence of freedom works, the more so a notorious prison on some military base.

Paul
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #63 on: February 22, 2013, 12:30:02 PM »
I'm not going to argue every point you make because I don't want to look like a fool, trying to explain the obvious to everyone. I'm flabbergasted by the sheer absence of logical links in your replies to what you actually cite. I understand this as a rare case of confusion and a deep desire to evade what is actually under discussion.
Well good at least you got that out of your system.

Also: a prison is not exactly a place to show as an example of how the absence of freedom works, the more so a notorious prison on some military base.
In western society however we generally believe we have the basic civil right to a trial not be detained with no reason, no hearing date set. Mainstream society is worried about this situation as it says a great deal about the freedom we all have. In Australia there was one example of a man being detained under the terrorism law then getting a payout for the mistake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_Haneef


Haneef was arrested on 2 July 2007 at Brisbane Airport, Brisbane, Australia on suspicion of terror-related activities. He is the second cousin once removed of Kafeel Ahmed and Sabeel Ahmed, the operatives in the 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack. Haneef's ensuing detention became the longest without charge in recent Australian history, which caused great controversy in Australia and India.
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Offline p2u_

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Re: How Free is your country?
«Reply #64 on: February 22, 2013, 12:41:37 PM »

In western society however we generally believe we have the basic civil right to a trial not be detained with no reason, no hearing date set.

I know better than anyone else here what it is to be wrongfully accused without a trial. The pain will never go away and I feel deep, deep compassion for all people with such a fate. You will never hear me argue against the right for a fair trial. I guess I missed the link to what you wanted with the thread. I have other associations with the word "freedom". I associate the absence of a trial with the words "justice"/"injustice", which are a bit different in scope. When I saw your first post, I also thought the topic would be a bit more philosophical, broader, but then I saw examples mentioned that made my hair stand on end. I hope you can understand that. I apologize for any confusion caused.

Paul
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