Learning Piano: What is your number one problem/question?

[okanaganmusician]

A little context for this question:

I received a BMus and BEd a few years ago and have been teaching piano privately since my teenage years - piano education fascinates me!  How the brain works, best ways to approach and learn different styles and pieces...it's a never ending journey of self-improvement as a teacher!

I am trying to compile a list of questions/problems that are most common in adult or older beginners (or even intermediates).  My goal is to find out exactly what issues are most prevalent and find a way to research and solve those questions or problems specifically.

I'd like to keep this as broad as possible - so go ahead and shoot with your question no matter how stupid you think it may be!  

It could be something really general (ie how to learn a song by ear) or something specific (ie how to strengthen the 4th and 5th fingers) - it doesn't matter!

So to summarize:

What is your number one question when it comes to learning piano?

[rjarsenault1101]

what's the easiest way to memorize say a 6 page piece?

[rjarsenault1101]

oh and - if the key signature has just Bb in it, how can i tell whether it's F major or D minor, or whatever other ones it could be?

[okanaganmusician]

Thanks for your questions!

My goal in this thread is to compile as many questions as possible, rather than actually answer them right here - like I mentioned I would be happy to answer them later on down the road.

That said, your last question seems rather simplistic so I'm happy to help you quickly here.  If it's a classical piece, one in D minor is likely to have all C's raised to C-sharp via accidental.  Also check the final cadence of the piece or section, a perfect closed cadence usually is found there (V-I) so that can be a hint.  If it's a pop-style piece, try checking the first and especially last chords.  Obviously more goes into it than that, but that's a good starting point.

Keep the questions coming!

[gozo490]

playing chords in quick succession with the tonic and majority of the body of the chord on #/bs

for example the opening of the following:

i can play the opening but the ammount of times one of my fingers miss is ridiculous. i end up playing some quite amusing combinations of what im aiming for.

[outin]

How does one get the fingerings solid and automated when the usual tricks fail?

[drazh]

hi
my challenge is sight reading

[cjp_piano]

As a teacher, I can tell you a few of the most common problems I've encountered in adults and older beginners:

1. Too much tension in the body and using too many unnecessary muscles
2. Lack of "flow" when playing (stopping/starting)
3. Lack of confidence

Good luck!

[teenagepiano]

A little context for this question:

I received a BMus and BEd a few years ago and have been teaching piano privately since my teenage years - piano education fascinates me!  How the brain works, best ways to approach and learn different styles and pieces...it's a never ending journey of self-improvement as a teacher!

I am trying to compile a list of questions/problems that are most common in adult or older beginners (or even intermediates).  My goal is to find out exactly what issues are most prevalent and find a way to research and solve those questions or problems specifically.

I'd like to keep this as broad as possible - so go ahead and shoot with your question no matter how stupid you think it may be!  

It could be something really general (ie how to learn a song by ear) or something specific (ie how to strengthen the 4th and 5th fingers) - it doesn't matter!

So to summarize:

What is your number one question when it comes to learning piano?

Not so much question as problem. My biggest problem, and one I think a lot of beginners have is sight-reading; it is an important skill that makes harder pieces much easier to learn.

My technical ability for many pieces is there, but sight reading the notes is quite hard.

So I guess the question would be: How to improve my sight reading?

[okanaganmusician]

Some awesome input so far - thanks for all your contributions!

Let's keep them coming 

[jazzyjeff]

how do i recognise the notes without using the "every good boy" method.
how do i stop depending on such crutches.
how do i learn to find keys without looking at the keyboard ?
these are just some of my main questions.

[kriatina]

One of my problems is that my sight-reading seems much better
than I trust myself (as a beginner) and whenever I do not look at my hands
and "just trust my instinct to do it right" it goes perfectly right and I make less mistakes.

But as soon as I doubt my own judgement and look
at where the finger is placed just "to make absolutely sure",
I "get stuck" instantly and find it difficult to find the right place in the score again.

That might be a typical beginner's problem and it might take time.

I have now started to play my daily scales and pieces without looking at my fingers
and I have noticed that I make less mistakes.

Another problem (as an adult beginner) is
to have every day the time for playing and practicing.

I have noticed that in order to really develop
I would need to have much more time every day
(about 1 - 2 hours at least)
and that is very difficult on many occassions.

Sometimes I have unfortunately no chance to play at all
and I notice every time that it instantly takes away my development
I enjoyed whilst being able to play and practice every day.

These are my "number one problems" and sometimes I feel 
as if I am going two steps backwards and only one step forwards again.

I wonder if other adult beginners have similar problems?

Best wishes from Kristina.

[keypeg]

That said, your last question seems rather simplistic so I'm happy to help you quickly here.  If it's a classical piece, one in D minor is likely to have all C's raised to C-sharp via accidental.  Also check the final cadence of the piece or section, a perfect closed cadence usually is found there (V-I) so that can be a hint.  If it's a pop-style piece, try checking the first and especially last chords.  Obviously more goes into it than that, but that's a good starting point.

This can actually bring you closer to teaching adult students.  Don't assume that the background for any of the above is there.  What is the significance of the raised C's?  What is a perfect closed cadence?  In other words, getting a proper and solid background in theory, and I would say, when teaching lessons over the long run, not giving partial information simply for the sake of getting at the piece as quickly as possible, as one sees in some method books.  If concepts and technique are developed for children, shouldn't the same be necessary for adults?

[kriatina]

P.S. One problem for an adult beginner like me is that
I have no connection to the piano world.

It also seems to me that teachers are mainly “geared” to teach beginners
whilst they are little children or teenagers?

I had for example one teacher who tried to present me with little kiddies-goldstar-stickers
to stick into my beginners-book for my achievements and this teacher treated me
as if I was a little 5-year-old child and this behaviour made me extremely embarrassed.
Unfortunately I could not do anything about this behaviour
(I tried ever so hard to stop it) and the only “way out” was
to stop having lessons with this teacher.

I also felt I was overcharged with the fees for my lessons
because I started as an adult beginner from scratch and never had any lessons before.
Because I am an adult-beginner it was assumed that I had lots of money
but that is not true in my case.
Fact is that I had to put money aside especially for my piano tuition.
 
For a little while I tried very hard to find a teacher who is committed and understands
that I love to learn the piano and desperately want to learn to read scores as a hobby,
and that I love music and I wanted to learn how to play the piano all my life.
But until now I just never had a chance and I “only” want to learn it
as a very treasured hobby for myself.

As a result of my experiences I am now without any teacher
and that makes it so much harder for me.

From talking to some other adult-beginners it seems I am not isolated with such a problem.

Kristina.

[bernadette60614]

How to keep practice "fresh" so that it isn't just time logged on the piano, but actual progress.

[iancollett6]

As a teacher, I can tell you a few of the most common problems I've encountered in adults and older beginners:

1. Too much tension in the body and using too many unnecessary muscles


Good luck!

 I feel that this is a major issue with myself and am working on it,   if anyone has got some tips?

[ranniks]

I struggle playing from the sheet. Basically I learn a piece from the sheet and then play it, but I memorise it (by reading it) and then play it without looking at the sheet. This causes problems during playing. When my teacher asks me to play this bar I need to go back to the first bar or a few bars before said bar to play it, my fingers remember it for me.

So basically I lack the ability to play while reading pieces I can already play.

Any suggestions?

[oxy60]

The one aspect that is central to playing something well is to be able to focus on it for long periods of time, months or even years. I call it the process of incremental-ism. You work on one beat at a time getting that beat to sound right. Then the next beat, and then two beats together. In advanced modern works it's slow going.

I don't try to memorize pieces. That time can be used to learn new stuff.

When I was working I had massive loose leaf note books for each church. Nothing can be left to chance or fuzzy memory.

[hardy_practice]

As cjp says, it's all about tension - the importance of which the learner tends to just not get.

[mark737]

Counting is by far my biggest issue. I can count basic even pieces but even after 6 years of constant practice, I can't count and play at the same time. I understand the math, just can't implement it. I tend to internalize the rhythm by knowing the piece or play notes short vs long.
This tends to give my music a hackish over all quality. If I could fix it. I would be a decent intermediate player.

I have also worked hard at fixing this issue with books of music just for counting etc.

[oxy60]

Counting is by far my biggest issue. I can count basic even pieces but even after 6 years of constant practice, I can't count and play at the same time. I understand the math, just can't implement it. I tend to internalize the rhythm by knowing the piece or play notes short vs long.
This tends to give my music a hackish over all quality. If I could fix it. I would be a decent intermediate player.

I have also worked hard at fixing this issue with books of music just for counting etc.

Get a metronome! I played everywhere for money and was rehired over and over. When I went into a studio and was required to play to a click track (metronome) I ran up against a wall. I thought I had those triplets even but upon playback I heard I got them into the correct beat but they weren't evenly spaced (I didn't divide the beat correctly).

[tomewer]

As an absolute beginner (been playing around 6 weeks) my key issues revolve around quality of practice. I think everything comes back to that. So a good structure for practice and how to practice pieces for best efficiency of learning are really important to me. I know that's a really broad area but there you go

[keithbj]

The biggest problem I have is co-ordination between left and right hands. I can often play the right hand, then go on to the left hand, but really have trouble combining the two together. I'm assuming this is a common problem, but I find it a real hurdle.

[kriatina]

Get a metronome! I played everywhere for money and was rehired over and over. When I went into a studio and was required to play to a click track (metronome) I ran up against a wall. I thought I had those triplets even but upon playback I heard I got them into the correct beat but they weren't evenly spaced (I didn't divide the beat correctly).

I am still wondering about whether I should use a metronome or not,
because I have been reading that Beethoven was asked to use a metronome
on one of his Sonatas and after writing down the metronome-speed he misled the paper .

As a result he had to repeat the same experiment again and noticed later -
- after the original piece was found again -  that the speed he used
whilst playing the same Sonata was completely different each time.

The explanation was that Beethoven's mood was completely different each time
he played this Sonata and wrote down the speed according to the metronome.

That leaves me - as a beginner - very much confused about metronomes.

Is there an answer?

Thanks from Kristina.

[oxy60]

I am still wondering about whether I should use a metronome or not,
because I have been reading that Beethoven was asked to use a metronome
on one of his Sonatas and after writing down the metronome-speed he misled the paper .

As a result he had to repeat the same experiment again and noticed later -
- after the original piece was found again -  that the speed he used
whilst playing the same Sonata was completely different each time.

The explanation was that Beethoven's mood was completely different each time
he played this Sonata and wrote down the speed according to the metronome.

That leaves me - as a beginner - very much confused about metronomes.

Is there an answer?

Thanks from Kristina.

Of course your mood changes and the very same piece can be played at different speeds. What the metronome does is insure is steady speed throughout. Beethoven liked to vary the mood within a piece by restating the theme in notes of different values. First we hear it in quarter notes, then later in eighths. Or in quarter notes harmonized in triplets or eighths. He already wrote the differences into the sections so if we get the tempo steady that brilliant writing will shine. If we take the section with the quarter notes too fast because it is easy we won't be able to play the triplets at the speed of our quarter notes.

[kriatina]

Thank you, oxy60 for your kind explanation, it is very much appreciated.
I do now understand much better the purpose of the metronome.

It puts forward another question
and that is that I was reading that "in the very old days"
the "Breve" (double whole note) was considered the "real slowest note" with the longest duration
but "these days" the "Semibreve" (whole note) is considered to have the longest duration.

Could it be that because "these days" the "Semibreve" is having the longest duration
we play now generally much faster because the "Breve" in no longer
being really considered whereas "in the old days" it was?

Thanks from Kristina

[oxy60]

I've also heard that. Considering how long a note can sound once struck on a piano, I also wonder how one would play it.

For example, Beethoven indicates that we should play his Moonlight Sonata without the dampers touching the strings. At a certain point there is a G# in the bass that dies before he indicates that it should be struck again. I just let it die rather than play it louder so it will sound though.

Or maybe I'm playing the piece too slow and Beethoven intended that note to last as long as indicated. Then the triplets would need to go a lot faster or the dynamics would need to change.

These are just some of the puzzles we need to solve.

[kriatina]

Thanks again, oxy60 for your kind reply and your thoughts.

About Beethoven's "Moonlight" Sonata...

I don't know how true this is, but I was reading in one of Beethoven's biographies
that he told his visiting friends one day that he intended to ask the family of a certain lady
whether he could marry her (she was his student and an aristocrat);
and in order to "get enough money together" and feel confident to ask her family
he had worked very hard, composed a lot and had sold compositions.

His friends were astonished because they had thought he knew this lady
had not only become married but she was also pregnant with her first child.

According to Beethoven's friends he just sat down at his Fortepiano
and "poured out" his deep sorrow.

This biography stated that the notation/melody of the so-called "Moonlight" Sonata
was at first written down by his friends because Beethoven was too "crushed"
by the news to write anything at all.

I feel this Sonata expresses the melancholy of a man whose hopes have been crushed.

Best wishes from Kristina.