Rolled Chords vs Block Chords With Video

[louispodesta]

When reading a score, students have always been taught to play their chords in a block chord fashion.  Unless they are specifically marked, they are never instructed to play rolled chords, instead.
 
Stated another way, when a person is taught to play a chord, an octave, or double notes at the piano, they are taught to strike all of the keys at the same time. It is assumed that because the notes on the printed score are all lined up vertically on the note stem those keys are to be struck simultaneously.
 
However, recent written and recorded sources have shown that the composers and pianists of the 19th and early 20th centuries regularly rolled/arpeggiated their chords, octaves, and double notes. This was done commonly in the left hand, and also often in the right hand.

They also used a performance technique known as asynchronization, where the bass note was played slightly ahead of the soprano note in order to enhance the melodic line.

It is most important to note that the style and utilization of  arpeggiation and asynchronization was specific to a particular composer.  No two were done the same way.
 
As an example there is the recording "Pupils of Clara Schumann," where Adelina de Lara arpeggiates and asynchronizes the music of Schumann, Brahms, and Beethoven.  Then, there are the digital stereo piano roll recordings, "Debussy, The Composer As Pianist," and "Ravel, The Composer As Pianist," where the composers use these techniques extensively.
 
Two written sources are Kenneth Hamilton's, "After the Golden Age," and Neal Peres Da Costa's, “Off the Record," whose books contain extensive discussions of arpeggiation and asynchronization, along with rhythmic alteration and tempo modification.  They state that in the 19th century people originally learned a piece from the composer or one of their students because the score was only meant to be a guide.
 
Finally, enclosed is a link to a You Tube video illustrating this research.
 
This is a somewhat radical approach with a title that some have found to be simplistic and offensive.  However, the goal is to have this research published so that every person be given the opportunity to hear the classical piano repertoire as it was originally composed, performed, and taught.
 
Some will find this to be old news, but most people have no knowledge of these historical performance techniques.  They have always been taught that the composers and their students originally played utilizing the modern block chord, strict tempo method of (Urtext) literal interpretation.

 

[nyiregyhazi]

When reading a score, students have always been taught to play their chords in a block chord fashion.  Unless they are specifically marked, they are never instructed to play rolled chords, instead.
 
Stated another way, when a person is taught to play a chord, an octave, or double notes at the piano, they are taught to strike all of the keys at the same time. It is assumed that because the notes on the printed score are all lined up vertically on the note stem those keys are to be struck simultaneously.
 
However, recent written and recorded sources have shown that the composers and pianists of the 19th and early 20th centuries regularly rolled/arpeggiated their chords, octaves, and double notes. This was done commonly in the left hand, and also often in the right hand.

They also used a performance technique known as asynchronization, where the bass note was played slightly ahead of the soprano note in order to enhance the melodic line.

It is most important to note that the style and utilization of  arpeggiation and asynchronization was specific to a particular composer.  No two were done the same way.
 
As an example there is the recording "Pupils of Clara Schumann," where Adelina de Lara arpeggiates and asynchronizes the music of Schumann, Brahms, and Beethoven.  Then, there are the digital stereo piano roll recordings, "Debussy, The Composer As Pianist," and "Ravel, The Composer As Pianist," where the composers use these techniques extensively.
 
Two written sources are Kenneth Hamilton's, "After the Golden Age," and Neal Peres Da Costa's, “Off the Record," whose books contain extensive discussions of arpeggiation and asynchronization, along with rhythmic alteration and tempo modification.  They state that in the 19th century people originally learned a piece from the composer or one of their students because the score was only meant to be a guide.
 
Finally, enclosed is a link to a You Tube video illustrating this research.
 
This is a somewhat radical approach with a title that some have found to be simplistic and offensive.  However, the goal is to have this research published so that every person be given the opportunity to hear the classical piano repertoire as it was originally composed, performed, and taught.
 
Some will find this to be old news, but most people have no knowledge of these historical performance techniques.  They have always been taught that the composers and their students originally played utilizing the modern block chord, strict tempo method of (Urtext) literal interpretation.

 

While I hold similar views, I must say that you do invite yourself to be viewed as something of a crank by presenting such a polarised slant. Blocked chords were very much in the vocabulary. Spreading was an option and not necessarily the norm. It doesn't do the movement any favours to present blocked chords as being stylistically incorrect- rather than to invite people to appreciate historical practises.

I hope you'll forgive my honesty but your playing examples weren't greatly convincing to me. The spreads didn't have much tonal effect in the brahms- which was the historical purpose. It's not simply a gesture or a concept but a means to an end. In the case of the brahma, I'd rather hear the chords played blocked and with a proper sense of space and use just a few asynchromisations not consciously, but where I'm looking for a particular colour or a breath or to differentiate an inner voice from the texture. Benjamin grosvenor is an excellent example of a pianist who uses the gestures this way- not out historical concepts but quite simply because it is a means towards a particular quality of sound. Apologies for the honesty, but it came across that you are using the gesture as a concept more than out of a desire to listen in and coax specific musical qualities out of the sound. I'd try to make a far smoother and less accented musical line out of the brahms example, before going on to experiment with what extras can come from spreads (initially done slowly and with an exploration of EVERY individual finger's contribution of the build of sonority, not as a quick flick. From there, you can blend them into the line subtly but with an organic musical quality that contributes to the sonority with a real purpose.

Gilels playing bach siloti is the ultimate example. Not a single spread is born out of generalised compulsion to spread rather than block. Every single one (in the repeat) is stems  from a desire to explore both the individual sounds (especially in terms of achieving a piercingly sonorous and differentiated melody without any trace of being punched out) and their contribution to the overall whole. It is not a prosaic gesture.

[nekoloff]

Thank you for this illuminating video and information. I've also noticed this primarily in the performances of my personal God Artur Schnabel although I must say it's not to be found everywhere - it's particularly anbsent in his Beethoven recording. (: It is interesting however to argue why almost no one today has continued that tradition and I mean serious, concert pianists. It's not that they haven't heard Debussy piano rolls of early Schnabel recordings..

[nyiregyhazi]

Thank you for this illuminating video and information. I've also noticed this primarily in the performances of my personal God Artur Schnabel although I must say it's not to be found everywhere - particularly in his Beethoven recordings. (: It is interesting however to argue why almost no one today has continued that tradition and I mean serious, concert pianists. It's not that they haven't heard Debussy piano rolls of early Schnabel recordings..

Also, I forgot to say that I'd be suspicious of piano rolls. Schnabel was very together and professed that he did not believe in casual spreads. Are there any particular genuine audio recordings that reflect spread chords? If so, I'd be interested in the examples. I'm similarly skeptical of the ravel example, which is said to actually be the playing of casadesus - who was a very straight pianist too!

While you wouldn't find a stronger advocate than myself for spreading chords, I'd be very careful of using piano rolls as evidence. They are often choppy due to flaws in the system. Even if the rhythm is accurate, they often give a poor representation of the qualities that spreads were used for. Due to poor dynamic reproduction, they often produce coarse lumps that draw too many attention, rather than the seamless blending of tone that is to be heard on audio recordings. Without the corresponding tonal context being sensitively reproduced, spreads can be meaningless or even deeply anti musical. I hear this very often on piano rolls.

[louispodesta]

Nekoloff and Nyirgyhazsi:

Thank you for your inciteful replies.  However, due to prior space restrictions, I will now list additional source material.

First, the initial recorded example I list is from a 6 CD set, "Pupils of Clara Schumann" (Pearl) which unfortunately can only be listened to, with limited exception on You Tube, at your local university fine arts library.  They are analog recordings of Fanny Davies, Adelina de Lara, and Ilona Ibenschutz all of whom were students of Clara Schumann.

Adelina de Lara's recordings include the Brahms (Op. 117 #1), who was a personal friend, and also the Beethoven C Minor Variations, which she learned from Madamme Schumann, who learned it from her father.  There is extensive use of both arpeggiation and asynchronization throughout the entire 6 CD set.

As a matter of fact, this includes the first analog recording of the Schumann Concerto by Fanny Davies.  She was Clara's teaching assistant for 20 years, and every single chord in measures #12 thru #19 is arpeggiated.

Secondly, the Debussy piano roll recording was made by Kenneth Caswell out of Austin and the Schnabel by Richard Simonton, Jr. from Los Angeles.  Kenneth Caswwell is a personal friend of mine, and we have discussed many times the myth that one cannot play block chords on a piano roll instrument.  Richard Simonton's father, who was the first American collector of these rolls, donated over 200 rolls to the USC historical collection upon his death.

Both of these individuals are considered world authorities on the digital stereo transfer of these rolls.  They are note for note exactly the way the artists played them because Welte made each artist sign a contract that there would be no editing, except for wrong notes.  The Ampico rolls recordings are highly edited.

Finally, I have researched this project for over 13 years, and I have played devils advocate many times with myself regarding the validity of these recordings.  Accordingly, I refer you to both Kenneth Hamilton's book, "After The Golden Age: Romantic Pianism and Modern Performance," as well as Neal Peres da Costa's book, "Off The Record: Performing Practices In Romantic Piano Playing."

Both of these internationally recognized applied musicologists, who are also concert pianists, extensively lay out the nature and historical validity of these playing techniques.  Peres da Costa's work has a companion website containing dozens of recorded examples which are cross-referenced on practically every page of his book.

Thank you once again for your comments.  Please remember that my stated goal is to have this research made available to everyone so that they can hear the way this music was originally composed, performed and taught.

[louispodesta]

Thank you to all those who have taken the time to view this thread.

I now encourage you to view my three part expanded version of this in the "Repertoire" Forum which is entitled "Non-Urtext Performance Treatise," (Part I & II), along with "Additional Examples Of Non-Urtext Performance."

Thanks, once again.

[nyiregyhazi]

"Secondly, the Debussy piano roll recording was made by Kenneth Caswell out of Austin and the Schnabel by Richard Simonton, Jr. from Los Angeles.  Kenneth Caswwell is a personal friend of mine, and we have discussed many times the myth that one cannot play block chords on a piano roll instrument.  Richard Simonton's father, who was the first American collector of these rolls, donated over 200 rolls to the USC historical collection upon his death.

Both of these individuals are considered world authorities on the digital stereo transfer of these rolls.  They are note for note exactly the way the artists played them because Welte made each artist sign a contract that there would be no editing, except for wrong notes.  The Ampico rolls recordings are highly edited."

You're making a false polarisation there. Nobody argued blocked chords are impossible or that lack of togetherness is due to editing- but simply that piano rolls are inconsistent in their quality and generally rather unreliable as an approximation of the performance. The pianist nyiregyhazi was extremely unimpressed by how they failed to capture his sound.

(You may find the playing at 2mins or so into this clip rather interesting)

If that accurately represents the playing of Schnabel, there should be at least one audio example (from his many acoustic recordings) of him spreading chords liberally? Do you have one that you can present? There's something very fishy about that one- given what he professed about keeping the hands together and how he played on true audio.

Please note that I am not arguing that spreading is a myth in general. I'm a huge advocate. I just believe in assessing each piece of evidence on its own merits and appreciating the flaws of piano rolls. The recording of paderewski in the 3rd ballade is just a joke. Without capturing the original dynamic subtlety, the spreads achieve the very opposite to what he used them for on his audio recordings. They create horrific jaggedness and lumps- where the whole idea was to use them to smooth over the percussive edge of note beginnings for a more polished legato sound. Unfortunately there's generally very little to be learned about spreading as a true art in most piano rolls- as they merely recreate a rhythm (that itself is often a little imperfect) with only the vaguest approximation of the tonal context. Spreads are nothing without appreciation of tonal blending. The roll typically captures a mere gesture, devoid of the fine details of tonal shading that would have made it meaningful.

[louispodesta]

nyiregyhazi:

Thank you for your well-thought out reply.  First, as Ken Caswell has shared with me personally, the reason he decided to re-record these rolls was due to the extremely poor quality of the original monophonic vinyl transfers.  The tension on the piano has to be set just so, in order to get an accurate reproduction.

With the exception of the Simonton four volume set, most of the piano roll recordings out there are pure junk, especially Paderewski's.

As far a Schnabel is concerned, when he recorded his roll, he had just left the tutelage of Leschetizky, who rolled everything.  Next, you have to remember, that Schnabel, along with Backhaus, and Rubinsteirn, was at the forefront of the new "German Tradition" of clean Urtext playing.  These guys didn't want to have anything to do with the 19th century.

That is why Rubinstein campaigned so vigorously behind the scenes of the first Chopin International Piano Competition in 1927.  From there on, no one was to play the music of Chopin in a rolled chord fashion, and with the exception of a few like de Pachmann, no one did.

Finally, I am sending you the link to the companion website for Neal Peres da Costa's book, "Off The Record" (please get a copy, all your questions will be answered).  It contains 57 separate recorded examples of arpeggiatied playing.  Enjoy.

www.oup.com/us/offtherecord.  Username Music3, password Book3234.