classical music

[rjarsenault1101]

am I the only one here that hates classical music? I mean like, I see all these people talking about bach and chopin, and mozart, but I never see anyone talking about like newer people, like John lennon, or Elton john. so I'm just curious, Am I really the only one?

[nocturnetr]

Yes.

[andreslr6]

am I the only one here that hates classical music? I mean like, I see all these people talking about bach and chopin, and mozart, but I never see anyone talking about like newer people, like John lennon, or Elton john. so I'm just curious, Am I really the only one?

I don't know why is it so surprising... there's like 300 years of music that can be played on piano that came before the ones you mentioned and that it's still played, music that carries with it much more meaning than any commercial product like pop and rock music, that's why it has lasted so much time, so... naturally...

Of course, that doesn't mean people here hate John Lennon or Elton John... Although I DO hate those 2 in particular...

[perprocrastinate]

If art music never existed, I wouldn't even consider playing any instrument.

[thalbergmad]

John Lennon & Elton John are not exactly pianists. They get by, but that is about it.

Stupid 3 minute songs cannot compare with the greats of classical music.

Thal

[j_menz]

Stupid 3 minute songs cannot compare with the greats of classical music.

Curious then that Chopin, Beethoven and various others frittered away so much of their time writing them.

[chopin2015]

ELTON JOHN??! Are you forreal? The only way I will write about any of those livin' pop stars is if they give me a scholarship.

[slobone]

I've never been a hater of any type of music. Some I enjoy listening to more than others. But I don't see the point of saying, for example, hip hop is illiterate rubbish just because I haven't listened to enough of it to evaluate it properly. If something is really original, it can often sound like noise when it first comes out. There are numerous examples of this in the history of music. I'm sure the first monk to add a second part to Gregorian chant was probably burned at the stake.

So OP, just keep your mind open and don't criticize what you don't understand (to quote another great composer). If you want a list of classical pieces that we think might change your mind, ask us.

And PS, maybe we should add a forum just for pop or jazz piano. I'd like to see that myself, but there may not be enough expertise here to make it worthwhile.

[ted]

I do not play much classical music, neither do I listen to it these days, although in my youth I did a lot of both. With me it is just a matter of time. I wish to devote my remaining years and energy to creating my own music. I am very rarely moved now by classical music, it is true, but I certainly do not hate it, and I have unreserved admiration for players with the willpower to grind away learning difficult pieces. I do not understand why much of it is considered great, but am compelled to assume the fault, if fault it is, lies with me.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

ELTON JOHN??! Are you forreal? The only way I will write about any of those livin' pop stars is if they give me a scholarship.

I'm stealing that from you.

[chopin2015]

Lol, it's cool! 

[outin]

Curious then that Chopin, Beethoven and various others frittered away so much of their time writing them.

You just said their pieces are stupid? 

[j_menz]

You just said their pieces are stupid? 

Read again. I didn't.

[outin]

Read again. I didn't.

Tried, didn't help...must be the early morning 

[j_menz]

Tried, didn't help...must be the early morning 

I merely meant that both Chopin and Beethoven wrote large numbers of "three minute songs". In Beethoven's case, a vast number of them.  The actual songs may be not much heard these days (i have the Chopin ones - it's not without reason that they are little heard), but these are the sort of "great composers" Thal referred to for whom such things, he suggested, would be beneath them.

Oh, and get yourself one of these for that early pick me up:

[outin]

I merely meant that both Chopin and Beethoven wrote large numbers of "three minute songs". In Beethoven's case, a vast number of them.  The actual songs may be not much heard these days (i have the Chopin ones - it's not without reason that they are little heard), but these are the sort of "great composers" Thal referred to for whom such things, he suggested, would be beneath them.

Oh, you were actually talking about SONGS...I thought you were referring to their 3 minute pieces in general

The Chopin songs are really terrible...

Oh, and get yourself one of these for that early pick me up:

I really need this one! I could then just get up and play my Bach...

[j_menz]

Oh, you were actually talking about SONGS...I thought you were referring to their 3 minute pieces in general

Good grief!!! I'd have to hand in my music snob card! 

[outin]

Good grief!!! I'd have to hand in my music snob card! 

Obviously I just lost my chances of ever getting one 

[j_menz]

Obviously I just lost my chances of ever getting one 

You can tell Alessandro from Domenico.  You're closer than you think.

[thalbergmad]

Curious then that Chopin, Beethoven and various others frittered away so much of their time writing them.

Was not aware Chopin wrote SONGS

Thal

[ajspiano]

Was not aware Chopin wrote SONGS

Thal

Op. 74.

You lose your music snob card too.

[outin]

You can tell Alessandro from Domenico. 

Are you sure?

Actually iTunes does not, I bought a collection of the sonatas once and they were all credited to the father...

[iansinclair]

to sort of go back to the original post... no, I doubt that you are the only one here who dislikes (hate is a very strong word) some classical music.  There are also a good many folks on here who dislike some varieties (or all!) "popular" music.

Seems to me that it is helpful, though, to remember that such distinctions are really rather artificial.  There has always been popular music in the world -- if that could be defined as music which is enjoyed and, in the old days, played or sung by a large segment of the population.  There has always been classical music -- if that could be defined as music displaying a more elegant structure and which is more difficult to perform, thus being somewhat more limited in enjoyment and performance.  (there has always been liturgical music as well, but that is another category altogether).  Further, years ago, it was not at all unusual for someone who composed "classical" music to also compose "popular" music (sometimes by accident!).  It was -- and is -- much less common for popular music, even composed popular music (John Lennon and Elton John were mentioned; I would add, among a host of others, Joni Mitchell or Carly Simon -- or Andrew Lloyd Weber or Claude-Michel Schonberg) to move to the status of classical music, simply because the complexity isn't there (works by the latter two composers I mentioned do move to that status, on the basis of complexity and development).

To a great extent, the distinctions are somewhat artificial -- and potentially harmful.  For me the best approach is to enjoy and appreciate whatever music I can, and disregard the label.

[lateromantic]

Oh, you were actually talking about SONGS...I thought you were referring to their 3 minute pieces in general

Prior to this thread, I didn't know that Chopin had written any songs.  When I read the comment about "stupid 3-minute songs," I started wondering, and sure enough, I found in Wikipedia that he wrote a bunch of Polish ones.  The article didn't indicate whether they were stupid or not (and without knowing Polish it might be hard to judge), but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them turned out to be around 3 minutes in length, since Chopin was the master of the miniature.

At least I knew that Beethoven had written some vocal music.  I think, however, that the last movement of his Ninth Symphony is too long to qualify as a "stupid 3-minute song."

[chopin2015]

You guys suck.

[iansinclair]

You guys suck.

Not, perhaps, a very helpful comment... in what ways, might I ask?

[lateromantic]

You guys suck.

I dearly love Chopin, but I have just never been a fan of songs in general--unless you count things like Mendelssohn's Lieder ohne Worte or instrumental arrangements of Rachmaninoff's Vocalise as "songs."  I'm an instrumentalist (pianist and violinist) at heart.

[virtuoso80]

am I the only one here that hates classical music? I mean like, I see all these people talking about bach and chopin, and mozart, but I never see anyone talking about like newer people, like John lennon, or Elton john. so I'm just curious, Am I really the only one?

I came to classical after I came rock and metal, so I can understand certain perspectives here.

First off, 'classical music' is a misnomer that is used to put 1000+ years of western music into one giant category. It's NOT all the same, save for one thing: It all requires some degree of acclimation, because it wasn't written for our time. I mean, does it really make sense that humanity never came up with good musical ideas, or ever had emotions similar to ours that they yearned to express, before John Lennon? Of course not.

As with different genres of music, one often has to find a bridge; some piece of music that contains things they already like, that then opens them up to hear other aspects they aren't familiar with in a different way. It's a process, but an incredibly worthwhile one IMO.

Never feel like you're SUPPOSED to like a composer, but do give music time. Most of the best music I've ever heard took repeated listening to get into. Sometimes it also helps to bring famous composers down to size, to understand that they're not EVERYTHING, but that there's something about them that they did better than everyone else.

It's very hard to know what will hook you. For me, as a heavy metal guy, dark and heavy, emotions-on-the-sleve music was what made it easiest for me. Probably won't be exactly the same for you. Here are some things I'd try out, though, that you've probably never heard:

Monteverdi, Nymph's Lament (early Baroque) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3ZX5hFN-is, and read the text translation along with the music. Notice how amazingly the music fits the text, and it's all about emotional expression. This is one of the most beautiful things ever IMO.

I STILL don't care for Mozart, so I'm not the guy to talk to. Beethoven, on the other hand, I think speaks some universal language that carries through time. Try some Kreutzer Sonata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mixnMzHUYxA

The very first composer I unreservedly loved was Gustav Mahler, who translates very well to modern sensibilities. He's dark and heavy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypQMFUztE-c, and also sublimely beautiful and heartbreaking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8LyuMSrJmA

For piano, how about some Prokofiev? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AdBi5IBrto

Anything grab you?

[j_menz]

At least I knew that Beethoven had written some vocal music.  I think, however, that the last movement of his Ninth Symphony is too long to qualify as a "stupid 3-minute song."

Try:

Opp 46, 48, 53, 75, 82, 83, 88, 94, 98, 99, 100, 108, 128

WoO 100-130, 132-150, 152-203

Hess 210, 228, 230, 231, 276, 277

Many of those contain whole collections of songs.

As I said, he wrote squillions of them

[unholeee]

chopin op 28 no 7
and
beethoven fur elise
are songs


according to the well thought out and studious casio book



right there!

[outin]

chopin op 28 no 7
and
beethoven fur elise
are songs


according to the well thought out and studious casio book

So did you do the editing on the cover? 

[unholeee]

i tried to tell it how they weren't songs but it wouldn't listen to me - talk to the hand - so i defaced it.

[rjarsenault1101]

I'm not changing my mind. I don't think anything can. I just find like for instance the 20 or 30 minute concertos or whatever so long and painstakingly boring, that I get bored of it and switch it to something else. And during my years of piano lessons, that's all my teacher had me play. Every single song I played was slow and boring. if it were meant to be fast, it was too difficult to play for it to be fast. Then when I go to the newer music from the beatles and elton john, it's (almost) all upbeat and fun, and short enough to get the point across without losing my attention. and when I go to play it, I just find the chord, play within that chord and you're good!

[virtuoso80]

I'm not changing my mind. I don't think anything can. I just find like for instance the 20 or 30 minute concertos or whatever so long and painstakingly boring, that I get bored of it and switch it to something else. And during my years of piano lessons, that's all my teacher had me play. Every single song I played was slow and boring. if it were meant to be fast, it was too difficult to play for it to be fast. Then when I go to the newer music from the beatles and elton john, it's (almost) all upbeat and fun, and short enough to get the point across without losing my attention. and when I go to play it, I just find the chord, play within that chord and you're good!

Dude, I'm as ADD a music listener as they come, and I can listen to a 4-hour Wagner opera quite happily. Of course you don't 'get' it on the first listen. No one does. It's too complex; too subtle. But there's a depth there that is unparalleled. Personally, I get bored with verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus, unless it's really well done. I find it disappointing when I've head the 1st minute of a song, and I know exactly what the whole thing is about. No surprises. No developments. No journey. For me, the most exciting stuff in music comes from development of thematic material. It's interesting you say, "short enough to get the point across." What IS the point? The melody? For me, that's like having a movie where you introduce the characters...and then the movie ends. Nothing happened. You can sit through a 2 hour movie, can't you? If so, then you can sit though a 2 hour symphony or opera, as long as you can follow the thread and be engaged, which, as I said, doesn't happen on the first listen.

[andreslr6]

I'm not changing my mind. I don't think anything can. I just find like for instance the 20 or 30 minute concertos or whatever so long and painstakingly boring, that I get bored of it and switch it to something else. And during my years of piano lessons, that's all my teacher had me play. Every single song I played was slow and boring. if it were meant to be fast, it was too difficult to play for it to be fast. Then when I go to the newer music from the beatles and elton john, it's (almost) all upbeat and fun, and short enough to get the point across without losing my attention. and when I go to play it, I just find the chord, play within that chord and you're good!

maybe that just means classical music isn't for you?

as the one above me said, I really get bored with commercial music because every song is basically the same thing over and over and over and over again, what's the point of that?

[Derek]

am I the only one here that hates classical music? I mean like, I see all these people talking about bach and chopin, and mozart, but I never see anyone talking about like newer people, like John lennon, or Elton john. so I'm just curious, Am I really the only one?

I couldn't say I hate classical music, but I find I think 90% of it intensely boring. The remaining 10% I like very much (and it's pretty much all solo piano or harpsichord or clavichord). I enjoy my own improvisations far more than all of this. But, I do also like a lot of metal, rock, video game music (old 8 bit, 16 bit stuff). Not sure if all this means I'm of average intelligence, honest with myself, or care very little about being regarded as intelligent or impressive or cultured, or a combination of all of those?

[outin]

I couldn't say I hate classical music, but I find I think 90% of it intensely boring. The remaining 10% I like very much (and it's pretty much all solo piano or harpsichord or clavichord). I enjoy my own improvisations far more than all of this. But, I do also like a lot of metal, rock, video game music (old 8 bit, 16 bit stuff). Not sure if all this means I'm of average intelligence, honest with myself, or care very little about being regarded as intelligent or impressive or cultured, or a combination of all of those?

I also like only certain type of classical and dislike many of the "great" composers and their music. I avoided classical music for many decades because most of it was either boring or annoying. This does not apply to solo piano (and baroque keyboard) music though and I keep finding more music that I enjoy all the time now that I have started exploring. Concertos are fine and some chamber music, but I could hardly be able to sit through symphonies. I can very well understand how someone would hate classical, because unlike with other types of music you are being told by others what you should like and if you don't the problem is not in the music but it's you 

[ignaceii]

I don't know why is it so surprising... there's like 300 years of music that can be played on piano that came before the ones you mentioned and that it's still played, music that carries with it much more meaning than any commercial product like pop and rock music, that's why it has lasted so much time, so... naturally...

Of course, that doesn't mean people here hate John Lennon or Elton John... Although I DO hate those 2 in particular...

In my latest topic, my piano depression he has a point. Why.... pop at least reinvents itself every time with each song and writer composer. Our star pianists only join ghe circus of the same repertoire, with the chinese as virtuoso as possible, and everyone playing approximately the same stuff over and over again. You mentioned 300 years.
Ok, but we hear only a fraction of that on podia, some real artists dig deeper on recordings. I am a piano melomane for 30 years, and now, I just don't care anymore. It's all marketing, and imports without serious competition records that get the gold medals. So, you are in a sense right kid or girl. Cherish the singer song writers, the dylans, neil youngs, cohen...they are priceless.

[brogers70]

It's completely fine to hate classical music. Nobody likes everything. If you are happy not liking it, ie if you did not start this thread because you worry that you are missing something, then just listen to whatever it is you like. Full stop.

[cometear]

There's nothing wrong with hating anything as long as you are accepting of other people's opinion. Most people on this forum have "classical" as their primary genre. This includes me. I also like jazz, rock, pop, and other genres. I enjoy Elton John, and other pianists that aren't classically trained. Don't let these stiff necked people discourage your liking of those pianists, and don't let them make you feel like it's wrong. They want you to be like them and don't understand how silly they seem

[chopinfrederic]

am I the only one here that hates classical music? I mean like, I see all these people talking about bach and chopin, and mozart, but I never see anyone talking about like newer people, like John lennon, or Elton john. so I'm just curious, Am I really the only one?

Yes. You really are the only one.