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rachmaninoff concertos (Read 3653 times)

Offline chopin2015

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rachmaninoff concertos
« on: February 28, 2013, 04:22:49 AM »
What tha....THERE'S FOUR?!
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline j_menz

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #1 on: February 28, 2013, 04:29:13 AM »
Five if you count the Pagannini.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #2 on: February 28, 2013, 04:34:47 AM »
Dang! Has lisitsa played the first one?
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline j_menz

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 04:45:30 AM »
Dang! Has lisitsa played the first one?

Indeed she has. She's done all 4 and the Paganini with the London Symphony Orchestra and Michael Francis.  Due for release on March 13th.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rachmaninov-Piano-Concertos-Paganini-Rhapsody/dp/B00B2TTVNU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360684589&sr=8-2&tag=smarturl-gb-21
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline j_menz

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 04:52:08 AM »
She has also done the unofficial 5th (a transcription by Alexander Warenberg of Rachmaninoff's second symphony as a piano concerto).



"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #5 on: February 28, 2013, 05:25:30 AM »
Wow! Thank you for the info!
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 08:28:34 AM »
Dang! Has lisitsa played the first one?

Hopefully not.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 12:59:26 PM »
Hopefully not.

Actually her first cadenza is pretty good.

So I'm looking forward to it.
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #8 on: February 28, 2013, 02:59:37 PM »
You would be looking forward to it if she were recording chopsticks.

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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #9 on: March 01, 2013, 12:37:52 AM »
You would be looking forward to it if she were recording chopsticks.

Thal



Come on now, you know she does a pretty kickass job.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #10 on: March 01, 2013, 12:47:54 AM »
Theres a video of rachmaninoff playing the first concerto. Now, she cant compate to that. Her force is good, but its missing something... Idk, its good, but noone can do rach like he himself! Lol
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline ajspiano

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #11 on: March 01, 2013, 01:15:52 AM »
Idk, its good, but noone can do rach like he himself! Lol

In regard to the 3rd atleast, I believe rachmaninoff said horowitz played it like its meant to be played..  with the insinuation being that it was more so that he had done himself.

Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #12 on: March 01, 2013, 01:56:06 AM »
Horowitz plays everything like it's meant to be played ::)
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline ajspiano

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #13 on: March 01, 2013, 02:01:14 AM »
Horowitz plays everything like it's meant to be played ::)

He plays the toccata cadenza.... it severely detracts from the piece (for me anyway).

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #14 on: March 01, 2013, 02:18:00 AM »
He plays the toccata cadenza.... it severely detracts from the piece (for me anyway).

The toccata cadenza is worse than all of Bachs works...

COMBINED!!! >:(
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Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #15 on: March 01, 2013, 02:22:34 AM »
The toccata cadenza is worse than all of Bachs works...

COMBINED!!! >:(
Haha! That can't be true...lol
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #16 on: March 01, 2013, 02:28:30 AM »
Haha! That can't be true...lol

Actually I did overdo it a bit. 

It's ALMOST as bad as Bachs best piece.
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Offline ajspiano

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #17 on: March 01, 2013, 02:41:37 AM »
Haha! That can't be true...lol

While I'll accept other people like it... If I went to see the concerto live, and the pianist played the toccata cadenza without making that known before I bought my ticket I would seriously consider demanding a refund.

Its not that its bad, its just that the ossia is so good - and not having it would kill the performance for me.

Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #18 on: March 01, 2013, 02:50:13 AM »
Haha, you should petition that!
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline ajspiano

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #19 on: March 01, 2013, 03:05:34 AM »
Speaking of things you'd want a refund over...

Did anyone else hear about this... from december last year?

"Andrei Gavrilov refused to play the Rachmaninov D minor in Moscow last  night. The audience was told that he was not feeling well."

He later posted online that he walked out because of the unprofessionalism of the orchestra or something..   then later still someone from the orchestra said it was because in rehearsal it became apparent that he couldn't play it very well.

..thing that most impressed me was that someone from the audience volunteered to come up and play it. The show must go on i guess...

Offline j_menz

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #20 on: March 01, 2013, 03:31:58 AM »
Speaking of things you'd want a refund over...

Gould was apparently notorious for cancelling concert appearances at the last minute.

When Bernstein delivered his (in)famous disclaimer regarding the tempo of the Brahms concerto he actually prefaced it with "No, don't worry, Mr Gould is here...".
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #21 on: March 01, 2013, 03:57:14 AM »
Speaking of things you'd want a refund over...

Did anyone else hear about this... from december last year?

"Andrei Gavrilov refused to play the Rachmaninov D minor in Moscow last  night. The audience was told that he was not feeling well."

He later posted online that he walked out because of the unprofessionalism of the orchestra or something..   then later still someone from the orchestra said it was because in rehearsal it became apparent that he couldn't play it very well.

..thing that most impressed me was that someone from the audience volunteered to come up and play it. The show must go on i guess...

Haha


Im sorry, lets reschedule for a year from now...i wish i could do that with all pieces... ::)
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline invictious

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #22 on: March 01, 2013, 06:23:17 AM »
Speaking of things you'd want a refund over...

Did anyone else hear about this... from december last year?

"Andrei Gavrilov refused to play the Rachmaninov D minor in Moscow last  night. The audience was told that he was not feeling well."

He later posted online that he walked out because of the unprofessionalism of the orchestra or something..   then later still someone from the orchestra said it was because in rehearsal it became apparent that he couldn't play it very well.

..thing that most impressed me was that someone from the audience volunteered to come up and play it. The show must go on i guess...

That is actually very interesting! I guess our main motivation for learning all these difficult works is something like this happens and we can steal the show for ourselves!
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline ahinton

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #23 on: March 01, 2013, 01:08:23 PM »
Whenever rach_forever gets ecstatic
(Which sometimes can seem almost automatic)
Itís plain to see that almost always itís a
Recording or performance by Lisitsa.

How strange his bid to win that pianist's heart!
Instead of concentrating on her art,
When, other than in pictures, he's not seen 'er.
'Tis time for him to lay off Valentina!


Anyway - back to Rachmaninov concertos...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline lukejones1

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #24 on: March 01, 2013, 01:23:40 PM »
My personal favourite recordings of the Rachmaninov concertos are:
1st Concerto - Sviatoslav Richter and the USSR RTV Large Symphony Orchestra conducted by Kurt Sanderling

2nd Concerto - Sviatoslav Richter and the Warsaw Philharmonic conducted by Stanislaw Wislocki

3rd Concerto - Emil Gilels and Orchestre de la Societe des Concerts du Conservatoire conducted by Andre Cluytens

4th Concerto - Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli and the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Ettore Gracis

 :) Any other suggestions for finest performances?

Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #25 on: March 01, 2013, 02:05:54 PM »
My personal favourite recordings of the Rachmaninov concertos are:
1st Concerto - Sviatoslav Richter and the USSR RTV Large Symphony Orchestra conducted by Kurt Sanderling

2nd Concerto - Sviatoslav Richter and the Warsaw Philharmonic conducted by Stanislaw Wislocki

3rd Concerto - Emil Gilels and Orchestre de la Societe des Concerts du Conservatoire conducted by Andre Cluytens

4th Concerto - Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli and the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Ettore Gracis

 :) Any other suggestions for finest performances?

Agreed
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #26 on: March 01, 2013, 04:39:28 PM »
Whenever rach_forever gets ecstatic
(Which sometimes can seem almost automatic)
Itís plain to see that almost always itís a
Recording or performance by Lisitsa.

How strange his bid to win that pianist's heart!
Instead of concentrating on her art,
When, other than in pictures, he's not seen 'er.
'Tis time for him to lay off Valentina!


Don't give up the day job just yet.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline ahinton

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #27 on: March 01, 2013, 09:21:20 PM »
Don't give up the day job just yet.
I'd not planned to but, since you probably assume that said "day job" involves writing what you often describe as "plinky" music, I am almost as puzzled by your advice as I am at your offering it.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #28 on: March 01, 2013, 09:56:48 PM »


Come on now, you know she does a pretty kickass job.

I fail to see how that is anything special

Thal
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #29 on: March 01, 2013, 09:58:27 PM »
3rd Concerto - Emil Gilels and Orchestre de la Societe des Concerts du Conservatoire conducted by Andre Cluytens

Earl Wild recorded a stunning 3rd.

Thal
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #30 on: March 01, 2013, 10:00:38 PM »
I'd not planned to but, since you probably assume that said "day job" involves writing what you often describe as "plinky" music, I am almost as puzzled by your advice as I am at your offering it.

I was not aware you were still plinking.

Thal
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Offline austinarg

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #31 on: March 01, 2013, 11:35:56 PM »
Earl Wild recorded a stunning 3rd.

Thal

In fact, Earl Wild has the best recordings of the four concertos.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #32 on: March 02, 2013, 03:20:38 AM »
I fail to see how that is anything special

Thal

All the other first cadenzas suck.

With the exception of maybe Rachmaninoff himself.

Let me see you post something better.
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Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #33 on: March 02, 2013, 03:27:52 AM »
All the other first cadenzas suck.

With the exception of maybe Rachmaninoff himself.

Let me see you post something better.

Rachs is the best rach. Richter is pretty good too. His whole first concerto is sick/awesome.
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #34 on: March 02, 2013, 03:58:05 AM »
Rachs is the best rach. Richter is pretty good too. His whole first concerto is sick/awesome.

His third concerto would be pretty awesome if he didn't make all those outrageously stupid cuts, and didn't play the stupid toccata cadenza.

I like his first piano concerto cadenza, but I still prefer Vals. :-*
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Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #35 on: March 02, 2013, 04:00:35 AM »
She plays on crappy pianos. Richters first is amazing, his cadenza is scary, but the rest of the concerto is the best ive ever heard anyone play.
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #36 on: March 02, 2013, 04:15:12 AM »
She plays on crappy pianos.


I know!!!

I freaking HATE Boosendorfers!!!

There's only two Boosendorfers she plays on that I actually like.
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Offline chopin2015

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #37 on: March 02, 2013, 04:18:40 AM »
I know!!!

I freaking HATE Boosendorfers!!!

There's only two Boosendorfers she plays on that I actually like.

Yeah, id take a yamaha over bosendorfer any day. Lol

I like old pianos better.
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline ahinton

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #38 on: March 02, 2013, 08:49:37 AM »
I was not aware you were still plinking.
I'm not, actually - and I never have plinked; I was merely referring to what you might think of what I do.

Anyway - back to Rachmaninov!

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #39 on: March 02, 2013, 03:50:59 PM »
All the other first cadenzas suck.

With the exception of maybe Rachmaninoff himself.

Let me see you post something better.

Oh I see. The fact I could not do better myself makes you right.

You need to take your rose tinted glasses off as far as this pianist hero of yours is concerned. in 10 years time, she will be forgotten and you might have grown out of her.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline ahinton

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #40 on: March 02, 2013, 05:18:19 PM »
Oh I see. The fact I could not do better myself makes you right.
I think that he's asking if you could post a better performance by another pianist rather than if you can play it better yourself, but I don't see that this undermines your point!

You need to take your rose tinted glasses off as far as this pianist hero of yours is concerned.
Heroine rather than hero, perhaps, though obsession seems more likely than either - and it seems to be more than merely the glasses that are rose-tinted and the tint something rather more powerful than roses anyway, given his declaration "I will win the heart of Valentina Lisitsa...Then with her by my side, I will revive Scriabin and fulfil his destiny by performing his Mysterium on the top of Mt. Everest and end the world!!!", as though Ms Lisitsa is willing to have her heart so won, witness at first hand the disinterment of a composer who's been dead for almost a century and participate in a performance of a work that said composer left unfinished at his death and whose premiŤre, which would require a surface considerably larger than that offered by the summit of Mt. Everest as well as a far more plentiful supply of oxygen than will be found there, would be heard by no one other than him and the performers, which would surely rather defeat its presumed object.

in 10 years time, she will be forgotten and you might have grown out of her.
Given the sheer extent of her self-promotion on YouTube, I'm not so sure that she will necessarily be forgotten in 10 years' time but evidence so far to hand suggests that the possibility of r_f growing out of her during that time seems yet more of a remote possibility.

She's a perfectly OK pianist among many perfectly OK pianists; I've yet to hear anything from her that especially excites and interests me.

Best,

Alistair
[/quote]I will win the heart of Valentina Lisitsa.  Then with her by my side, I will revive Scriabin and fulfil his destiny by performing his Mysterium on the top of Mt. Everest and end the world!!!
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #41 on: March 02, 2013, 07:31:49 PM »

She's a perfectly OK pianist among many perfectly OK pianists; I've yet to hear anything from her that especially excites and interests me.


My feelings exactly.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #42 on: March 02, 2013, 07:52:29 PM »
Oh I see. The fact I could not do better myself makes you right.



No, I meant post a better performance of anyone playing it.
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Offline ahinton

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #43 on: March 03, 2013, 06:33:18 PM »
No, I meant post a better performance of anyone playing it.
As I'd suspected (and as I accordingly mentioned above) - yet I still don't perceive what's to get so worked up about where Lisitsa's playing is concerned. Far from sharing your apparently avowed desire to win her heart, I want her to win mine - with her performances; she doesn't. End of story. As to your playing merry heaven with what I assume would have to be Nemtin's version of the available text for Scriabin's Mysterium on the summit of Everest where no one but the performers would hear it, the acoustic would in any case be terrible even if there were an audience, the oxygen levels would be so small as to make it well nigh impossible for of the participating performers to play more than a few measures of music without risking physical collapse and there'd be woefully insufficient space for them to perform, let alone for any audience to seat themselves to listen, it's probably just as well that Ms Lisitsa knows nothing of your avowed intentions, since she otherwise might well consider them to be those of someone rather short of grey cells upstairs...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #44 on: March 03, 2013, 06:46:52 PM »
Why on earth is a mediocrity like Lisitsa even being mentioned when there are Askenazy, Richter, Wild and Michelangeli, to name but four real pianists? Oh, I forgot, she's moderately attractive: very moderately. :o

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #45 on: March 03, 2013, 06:47:46 PM »
As I'd suspected (and as I accordingly mentioned above) - yet I still don't perceive what's to get so worked up about where Lisitsa's playing is concerned.
Best,

Alistair

What makes you think I'm getting worked up?

This is what happened...

Me:  I'm looking forward to her Rach 1 concerto.

Chopin:  Nah bro, I'm not about that life.

Me:  rach 1 concerto cadenza

Thal:    Meh, her cadenza kinda sucks.

Me:  really?  Aside from Rachmaninoff's pretty much all of them suck.  So let me see you post something better.  

Thal:  just because I can't do a better job doesn't mean that it still sucks.

You:  I agree with Thal.

Me responding to Thal:  actually I wanted you to post any pianist playing it better.

You:  blah blah blah blah blah blah


I don't understand what made you think I was getting worked up.  
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline ahinton

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #46 on: March 03, 2013, 07:13:31 PM »
What makes you think I'm getting worked up?
The fact that the sequence of "events" that you cite below is far from representative of the views and attitudes that you have expressed about Lisitsa - and even those are not all correct; for example

"Thal:  just because I can't do a better job doesn't mean that it still sucks.

You:  I agree with Thal."
Wrong; re-read my response, in which, broadly speaking, I concurred with

"Me responding to Thal:  actually I wanted you to post any pianist playing it better."

I simply find that Lisitsa is merely competent - I wouldn't go quite so far as to accuse her of mediocrity s some have done, but I simply find her work unengaging and largely relatively unconvincing, so it's more to do with how I'm not "worked up" by VL than anything else, apart from your own reactions to her as expressed elsewhere.

And, to me, she looks about as ordinary and unremarkable as her playing sounds, but that's neither her nor there, really.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #47 on: March 03, 2013, 07:19:04 PM »


And, to me, she looks about as ordinary and unremarkable as her playing sounds, but that's neither her nor there, really.

Best,

Alistair

Hey you know what?

That's fine.
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Offline ahinton

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #48 on: March 03, 2013, 07:28:25 PM »
Hey you know what?

That's fine.
Yes, I did already know that, thanks. In the meantime, however, whilst I wish you whatever luck you may need with winning the heart of Valentina Lisitsa and with having her by your side when reviving Scriabin and fulfilling his destiny by performing his Mysterium on the top of Mt. Everest, I'm sure that Id be far from alone in appreciating your desisting from ending the world as a direct consequence of your achievements, if that's OK with you.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline j_menz

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Re: rachmaninoff concertos
«Reply #49 on: March 03, 2013, 11:05:39 PM »

You [Alistair]:  I agree with Thal.

Wrong;

Thank God, or it really would be the end of the world as we know it.  ;D 
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant