Review: Difference acoustic and digital

[ranniks]

Acoustic:

- Real feeling to the keys and playing, you can hear the music vibrate from the keys to the string in the piano
- Realistic feel
- Can put more emotion into it

- Digital

- Clear clean cut sound
- Action not half bad
- Lacking some sound quality

I remember opening a topic here months ago. I was on the haul on buying a digital piano, but I bought an acoustic instead. After playing only acoustic for months and finally digitals last week I finally know what could work and not.

Conclusion: Both are good, just get one with weighted keys and a clear clean and cut sound.

I have the urge to throw my acoustic away for the sheer heaviness of it and buying a digital. I however do not have the money. The reason for wanting to get rid of it is probably because it hasn't been tuned in a while, which I also lack money for.

[indianajo]

Tune it yourself! A cheap digital keyboard makes a great tuning reference.  You buy the tuning key, 1/3 the price of a tuning visit, never wears out.  I don't use the little felt blocks, since I only do my own I can pluck the strings with my fingernail individually.  If you did it all day your fingernail would wear out.  I use two rolls of coins to keep the dampers up of both octaves I'm tuning.  The top octave is tricky, it needs "stretch" and tuning in octaves from below doesn't work exactly.  I'm lucky, I think my Hammond organ H100 has the stretch built in.  (not true of older Hammonds).  
You may not have the patience to get it exact, but it is not hard to reduce the pain of an out of tune piano. 

[hfmadopter]

Ranniks, right now you own a pretty decent acoustic piano. I suggest that you have it maintained. If you have to earn the money to have it done, so be it. It is the least expensive solution in the short term. When you are done interning, that may be another matter.

Any decent digital piano is going to cost many times more than that tuning or even the next  five or six tunings for that matter. You just need to figure in budgeting this into the cost of ownership of the acoustic. You knew that going in, nothing has changed!

[outin]

For a long time I thought I would buy a digital to accompany my future grand (which I hope to get during this year) and sell my upright. So recently I have been trying out quite a few digitals, some pretty expensive (around 3000 euros). But there's always something missing. I cannot really enjoy the digital sound and the playing experience seems lame. Although I am not that happy with the keys of my silent upright I recently made a decision to keep it instead of getting a digital for the moments when I need to play silent. It does have a decent sound for an upright and it seems to be getting better now that it has been played more. Keeps tune well also.

Your piano has a nice sound, I would definitely get it tuned. And since you like to play classical I would say learning with a real piano is an advantage.

[Bob]

I've never found a digital that really feels like an acoustic.  It seems like they could just reuse the guts of an acoustic somehow but... There's nothing out there.  Not that I'm aware of at least.

[hfmadopter]

For a long time I thought I would buy a digital to accompany my future grand (which I hope to get during this year) and sell my upright. So recently I have been trying out quite a few digitals, some pretty expensive (around 3000 euros). But there's always something missing. I cannot really enjoy the digital sound and the playing experience seems lame. Although I am not that happy with the keys of my silent upright I recently made a decision to keep it instead of getting a digital for the moments when I need to play silent. It does have a decent sound for an upright and it seems to be getting better now that it has been played more. Keeps tune well also.

I'm rooting for you and the grand piano purchase ! We all know that's your real desire, to own one. Are you still thinking of Estonia ? Which model ?

Digitals are what they are but they are great for a lot of things you might not do on the acoustic. In my case of course the silent feature is great, and arranging popular music or themes etc.  I get a good % of my grand pianos sound in the head phones and a good % of the key action of my grand. Not exact but certainly close enough to practice in silence at 3 am , things like the runs in the Nocturne we were speaking of in the student forum. It took quite a while for me to dial my digital in, I can't imagine walking into a store and accomplishing that in a few minutes visit. I dumped a lot of setups before I saved the one I have now under Warm Grand. And I have Warm Grand 2 saved to something I like. I never have gotten the concert Grand Sound up to my liking, not fully, not yet anyway. THe Pop piano sound is fine and the Studio Piano sound is fine as I have them set for what they are. Cncert Grand and Concert Grand 2 good but it's really less like my real grand than those other settings. I did things like press and hold down various keys on my grand and listen to the sustain and count , set and tweak the sustain on the digital. Listen to the key let off, to the dampers returning on  my grand and set the digital similar. Listen to the pedal open string resonance and set that similar. You name it, it goes on and on. You won't find these setting without the manual first off and you won't find them on the low end digitals. Just FWIW.

For me the digital is a good second piano choice, they certainly are not for everyone. I can really open it up on pop or new age music though, add strings, do crazy things that you can't even consider on the grand. I like the Nocturne better on the grand but it sounds nice on the digital as well. If I ever end up posting a recording here at PS it will be from the digital not from the acoustic. I don't have that kind of recording equipment on hand.

[Bob]

I've also noticed a digital can make you sound better than you're actually playing.  It can give you a really nice tone and make voicing easier.  Switch to an acoustic and you have to work a lot more.

[hfmadopter]

I've also noticed a digital can make you sound better than you're actually playing.  It can give you a really nice tone and make voicing easier.  Switch to an acoustic and you have to work a lot more.

That is true, yes. However, only to a certain degree. Bad rhythm is bad rhythm, for instance and if you have a crappy digital you also have crappy sound no matter what you do, short of virtual piano software.. I prefer my grand for most classical music.

The bad side of digital I notice is you have to be careful that you don't develop sloppy technique if you also are or intend to be an acoustic player.  If you have experience it won't matter so much as you can adjust. For developing certain techniques it matters more.

 As good as digital is these days, they have not addressed every aspect of acoustic yet have they ! That's why it's a secondary tool for me not primary.

[outin]

I'm rooting for you and the grand piano purchase ! We all know that's your real desire, to own one. Are you still thinking of Estonia ? Which model ?

I cannot go bigger than 168cm because my living room isn't big and I feel sorry for the neighbours... The only reason I don't have one yet is because of logistics...Been too busy with other stuff and it's not that simple to buy one from abroad... and now there's another option that I need to consider...

Digitals are what they are but they are great for a lot of things you might not do on the acoustic. In my case of course the silent feature is great, and arranging popular music or themes etc.  I get a good % of my grand pianos sound in the head phones and a good % of the key action of my grand. Not exact but certainly close enough to practice in silence at 3 am , things like the runs in the Nocturne we were speaking of in the student forum. It took quite a while for me to dial my digital in, I can't imagine walking into a store and accomplishing that in a few minutes visit. I dumped a lot of setups before I saved the one I have now under Warm Grand. And I have Warm Grand 2 saved to something I like. I never have gotten the concert Grand Sound up to my liking, not fully, not yet anyway. THe Pop piano sound is fine and the Studio Piano sound is fine as I have them set for what they are. Cncert Grand and Concert Grand 2 good but it's really less like my real grand than those other settings. I did things like press and hold down various keys on my grand and listen to the sustain and count , set and tweak the sustain on the digital. Listen to the key let off, to the dampers returning on  my grand and set the digital similar. Listen to the pedal open string resonance and set that similar. You name it, it goes on and on. You won't find these setting without the manual first off and you won't find them on the low end digitals. Just FWIW.

For me the digital is a good second piano choice, they certainly are not for everyone. I can really open it up on pop or new age music though, add strings, do crazy things that you can't even consider on the grand. I like the Nocturne better on the grand but it sounds nice on the digital as well. If I ever end up posting a recording here at PS it will be from the digital not from the acoustic. I don't have that kind of recording equipment on hand.

Thanks, I am sure with some work the digitals will sound good. It's not so much the sound quality that bothers me...Don't know what it is with my fingers or ears but I react very much to the lack of immediate connection of the keys and the sound (don't know how to explain it better). My playing changes (for worse) when I play with the silent feature or digitals.

[lostinidlewonder]

The pedal of all digitals come no where near what you can do on an acoustic, this is where digitals fail the most by comparison for me.

[hfmadopter]

I cannot go bigger than 168cm because my living room isn't big and I feel sorry for the neighbours...
 
Don't know what it is with my fingers or ears but I react very much to the lack of immediate connection of the keys and the sound (don't know how to explain it better). My playing changes (for worse) when I play with the silent feature or digitals.

My teacher had a roughly 157cm Steinway on a carpeted floor in a small studio room with heavy tapestry on the windows.  She always but always had the top down on it. Very managable, I always wanted to play it with the top up and get more top end dynamics out of it but never asked.

As to the digital and playing silent. It took me a couple of sessions with the headphones on to get used to that. Now I pretty much only play with them on even using the live speakers in the room for other people to hear. The speakers clock my ears, the headphones I find to be more soothing ( audio-technica ATH M45). At 62 going on 63 here soon and with industrial ear damage, sharp sounds are startling now. The grand kids left a set of their headphones here one day, the word to describe them is Loud.

I think what you are experiencing is the fact that all digitals play through a sound system of one type or another and acoustic is live, regardless of delay ( modern digitals really don't delay much). Acoustic is literally real and digital literally artificial in terms of sound generation.. This concept difference is something to get used to, I must say or just not do digital or vice versa.

[hfmadopter]

The pedal of all digitals come no where near what you can do on an acoustic, this is where digitals fail the most by comparison for me.

Many digitals have a pedal switch. The better ones have a variable pedal. It's not exact, but the first design ( the switch) is either on or off, there is no feathering the pedal and I'm a huge fan of feathering the pedal. My MP6 has the later design, it's managable but lets face it, we are speaking of the difference here between a full grand piano vs a keyboard basically, so ya there is a difference. Still pretty good for an electronic device ! My MP6 allows me to feather the pedal, I'm happy.

[ranniks]

You all are of course right, I was just speaking out of frustration because I lack the money to get my piano tuned immediately.

However, digitals aren't bad at all! I personaly think the only thing it lacks is the strings and such going through the back. I can feel the piano's strings in my fingers when playing, odd, lol.

Als, David, Outin, J Menz, Ian, Bob /anyone, am I ready for La Valse d'Amelie or dance of the sugar plum fairy by tchaikosvky?

If not, any recommendations? I am enticed and almost in love with Schuman op 15 no 1. Something similar would be nice.

Or dare I ask if I am ready yet for the raindrop prelude?

[outin]

Als, David, Outin, J Menz, Ian, Bob /anyone, am I ready for La Valse d'Amelie or dance of the sugar plum fairy by tchaikosvky?

Don't know how difficult these are in general, but I know there are some quite easy arrangements from the Tchaikovsky ballet. My colleague is learning one.

If not, any recommendations? I am enticed and almost in love with Schuman op 15 no 1. Something similar would be nice.

If you like Schumann, what about his album for the young? Too childish? You could select those that are to your taste. Although it might be useful to go out of one's comfort zone every now and then and just go through them in order, you could practice your sight reading at the same time...(But I am not the one who should cast the first stone  )

Or dare I ask if I am ready yet for the raindrop prelude?

I guess if you can play both hands without tension you could give it a try...

[hfmadopter]

However, digitals aren't bad at all! I personally think the only thing it lacks is the strings and such going through the back. I can feel the piano's strings in my fingers when playing, odd, lol.


Or dare I ask if I am ready yet for the raindrop prelude?

More likely you feel the hammers returning after striking the strings. I won't get technical about it though, who knows what you feel or think you feel really and if you think you feel the hammers strining the strings and that's a positive thing for you, so be it !

If you try raindrop, think drips of drops of water falling into a bucket on a rainy day. Drip drip drip drip drip- Drip- drip drip drip drip etc. Absolute steady pulse until at one point it is raining harder you might say, something you will indeed have to work very hard at. As a model of excellence even if you decide not to play it yet, listen to Horowitz not the average performance of the Youtube crowd, listen to his rhythm and expression. He especially masters the second half well, not everyone does. He was a master of solo notes performed to perfection, not to mention chords and expression as well.. Many may have or still play Chopin as well in their own way but nobody played Chopin his way. To me, he was the master and the credentials sealed away someplace possibly forever..

Tchaikovsky is one of those composers I want to like but somehow I get depressed workng on his pieces. I never nailed down why that is I just avoid doing his works. There is far to much bright and or other types of emotional works to do for me to go there.

Outin answered for me with Schumann. Beyond that suggestion I suspect you did perhaps the one piece you would be able to handle for right now. Someone might pop in with a suggestion though. I do have a Schumann goal for you though, my absolute favorite Schumann piece ( click the link only if you have 16 minutes to listen):     

[ranniks]

Don't think my teacher and I will be doing a new piece anytime soon. Working on Fur Elise and that Schumann piece which apparently has 3 voices in it.

Also received 2 new scales which I personally asked for (just 2 scales, not specifically which ones): B flat major (I think) and D Major (I think).

He was positive about the Fur Elise.

And David, very nice piece, that Schumann, need to listen last 8 minutes of it though.

[hfmadopter]

And David, very nice piece, that Schumann, need to listen last 8 minutes of it though.

So you will be busy enough !

The thing about my fvorite Schumann piece is all the different twists and turns it offers, different voices, phrases and a return to the beginning theme.

[j_menz]

Als, David, Outin, J Menz, Ian, Bob /anyone, am I ready for La Valse d'Amelie or dance of the sugar plum fairy by tchaikosvky?

If not, any recommendations? I am enticed and almost in love with Schuman op 15 no 1. Something similar would be nice.

Or dare I ask if I am ready yet for the raindrop prelude?

I don't know La Valse d'Amelie; Sugar Plum Fairy depends on the version you have, though I would think probably not ready yet for any of the ones actually worth doing.

Agree you should look through the Album for the Young - it's a reasonable intro to Schumann and some of it's quite noice in its own right.

IMO, no-ones actually ready for the Raindrop Prelude until they can play stuff that's a heck of a lot harder than it seems to be.  I assume you actually want to do it justice.  You're probably ready to do the notes, but I'd get a bit more under your belt before tackling it too seriously.

[indianajo]

Als, David, Outin, J Menz, Ian, Bob /anyone, am I ready for La Valse d'Amelie or dance of the sugar plum fairy by tchaikosvky?

It may be a sin to the digital piano crowd, but I'm doing Sugar Plum Fairy by ear on my Hammond H182 organ.  All analog, but has a glockenspeil effect on the upper manual I can do for the celeste, and I can fool with the drawbars on the lower manual to make a decent bass clarinet sound.  No string sounds, though.   I heard a harpist on a radio recital that played it talk about how there were 50 some key changes in SPF; that freed me up to take a try at it. It is about the fourth or fifth "by ear" piece I've worked through. 
I see you're aspiring to do Scott Joplin.  I do Magnetic Rag, Paragon Rag, and Maple Leaf Rag as warmup when I start a piano practice session.  Great for strength training, but hard on the tendons at my age.  The tendon makes me flame out on practicing Pictures at an exhibition after about an hour and a half.  Maybe I should try that on organ, the keys are lighter. But I did, I kept trying to play bass runs on the black "preset" (sound) keys at the left.  Only 61 keys on the organ. 
 

[hfmadopter]

It may be a sin to the digital piano crowd, but I'm doing Sugar Plum Fairy by ear on my Hammond H182 organ.  

I looked over a Kimball Organ last fall, it's still there ( or last I knew it was). It's dual manual, has a few pedals and all kinds of pulls and switches on it. I don't even know if it works but all I could see was a bunch of work to get everything functioning if it didn't.. They wanted $175 for it and then I went back and they wanted $250. From the little bit I've read about Kimball Organs, it's just as well I walked away.

I bought the MP6 since.

[keys60]

I prefer acoustic over digital hands down. (no pun intended) Digitals are artificial sounding no matter how high quality. What no one has mentioned here is.....although you can adjust sound through synthesis, you can't really adjust touch. What happens when the instrument starts to fail? (and they do) You have to ship out your instrument for key repairs, circuit failures and other electronic parts, memory and other tech junk. Piano gives you a problem, you call the tech to make adjustments in the home. Digital pianos are nice and definitely have a market place. You can have your own programmable orchestra right there in the house. But if its strictly piano you're going for, nothing beats and acoustics tone and touch.

[hfmadopter]

I prefer acoustic over digital hands down. (no pun intended) Digitals are artificial sounding no matter how high quality. What no one has mentioned here is.....although you can adjust sound through synthesis, you can't really adjust touch. What happens when the instrument starts to fail? (and they do) You have to ship out your instrument for key repairs, circuit failures and other electronic parts, memory and other tech junk. Piano gives you a problem, you call the tech to make adjustments in the home. Digital pianos are nice and definitely have a market place. You can have your own programmable orchestra right there in the house. But if its strictly piano you're going for, nothing beats and acoustics tone and touch.

Oxy60, I'd like to read more about your take on how digital's touch is not adjustable.