Tempo Discipline When Practicing

[tomewer]

Hello,

I am a total beginner having only been learning piano for a few weeks. I have a bit of problem when practicing in that I often go too fast (i.e. at too fast a tempo). I tend to make mistakes and have to force myself to slow down to a tempo where I don't make mistakes, then I tend to wander back up again.

Do you have any tips for exerting more discipline in terms of practicing at the "correct" tempo (i.e. one that reflects your ability to play the piece with minimal mistakes)?

Cheers!

Tom

[hfmadopter]

Actually I advocate learning and practicing below tempo, also while learning a new piece or parts of a piece work on it well below tempo.  This is your best insurance. From there bring it up to your comfort level and finally up to full tempo when you really have the piece working  and it is "in your hands", as they say.. Speed wll come with confidence. Make sure you honor the rhythm written in the time signature first and foremost, well before the speed issue..

What's happening is you modulate tempo. The harder parts obviously are a struggle and really you are forced to play them slow. Enter the easy part ( or part you already have learned perhaps) and suddenly you feel free to fly ! It's very vey common even beyond early beginner stages. So nail it now.

[tomewer]

Sorry, I don't think I made myself clear enough. I know that I should be practicing slowly, well below tempo and within my technical means -- the problem is in exerting enough discipline to ensure that I do that. I tend to find that I'm constantly fighting against the urge to go faster even though I know that going slower is far better for my development. Do you have any tips as to how I can increase my discipline on this front? Thanks!

[slobone]

It's important for a beginner to learn how to play in an even tempo. One essential is to get in the habit of counting out loud. Don't just think the beats in your head. There's something about saying them out loud, and hearing yourself saying them, then it gets into a different part of your brain or something. Anyway it works. And don't forget the "and"s.

I'm sure different people on this forum will have different opinions on whether to use a metronome. I take an intermediate position -- use it a few times to make sure you're playing evenly, but don't get dependent on it. Classical music is rarely intended to be played in strict metronomic tempo (not even Bach), so you don't really want to sound like that. But it can help keep you honest when you're practicing.

[iancollett6]

Hello,    Get yourself a metronome. I find the swinging arm variety better than the electronic beep style.
 I dont think there is anything wrong with playing quicker in areas where you feel more confident as long as you are giving each note the length it needs ie. quavers twice as long as semiquavers etc.
 Every now and then make a committmant to play the full piece at a set tempo.
 What ever you do, dont give up the piano, it just keeps getting better and better!

[slobone]

Hello,    Get yourself a metronome. I find the swinging arm variety better than the electronic beep style.
 I dont think there is anything wrong with playing quicker in areas where you feel more confident as long as you are giving each note the length it needs ie. quavers twice as long as semiquavers etc.
 Every now and then make a committmant to play the full piece at a set tempo.
 What ever you do, dont give up the piano, it just keeps getting better and better!

What I do now in my own practicing, is I slow down when I get to a hard part. It took me years to give myself permission to do that. But I'd rather do it than make a mistake, because I've learned that those mistakes can be very hard to erase. Naturally I spend extra time on the hard parts, and eventually they come up to tempo.

[oxy60]

Learn to love your metronome! As soloists we tend to take liberties and as soon as we play in a group we hit a solid wall. Even a vocal soloist might count better then you.

[kriatina]

Hello, Tom,

I am an adult beginner and I also had a problem to find a way
and keep my tempo in the proper pace.
 
The reason for this - I believe - was, that I was very happy to avoid mistakes
whilst playing from the sheet that I started to play faster towards the end of a piece
to avoid any possible mistakes happening at the end of a piece.

I then realized that even in concerts some pianists played so fast
that the melody & relaxing harmony of the piece would sometimes get completely lost.
(It almost appeared as if they had a train to catch 
and needed to finish quickly to be "just in time" for that train...)

Whenever I notice myself now to be getting too fast with my exercises & my playing,
I instantly remind myself that all my exercises & the time it took me to study each piece
would have been a complete waste of time and effort if I now hasted along with them.

Best wishes and good luck from Kristina.

[tomewer]

Thank you everyone for your replies! I'm keen not to become reliant upon the metronome but is probably something I should refer to occasionally to make sure that I'm not going too fast.

[oxy60]

By relying on the metronome now might make it possible to turn it off later.

[j_menz]

By relying on the metronome now might make it possible to turn it off later.

Or it might not. Developing a sense of rhythm and learning to listen to your playing will be far more effective.

[oxy60]

Or it might not. Developing a sense of rhythm and learning to listen to your playing will be far more effective.

But how else will you learn it without an impartial measure? Is there inside of us a deep down ticker that we only need to unlock?

[j_menz]

Is there inside of us a deep down ticker that we only need to unlock?

Yep.  Though it's not that deep down.

[ajspiano]

Learn to love your metronome! As soloists we tend to take liberties and as soon as we play in a group we hit a solid wall. Even a vocal soloist might count better then you.

I've met more than a few student pianists who could play in time with a metronome, but not a band.

listening to the tick doesn't mean you use/develop your inner tick.

[oxy60]

OK, so exactly how does one develop good meter for playing alone?

[slobone]

Step 1. Listen.

That's also steps 2 3 & etc. You have to get into the habit of listening to yourself while you play. If what you're hearing isn't what you want to hear, try again. This goes for everything, not just rhythm.

Also, count out loud. That will reinforce the basic pulse.

[j_menz]

What slobone said, plus you can tap along to other stuff you might be listening to. Anywhere, anytime.

[outin]

But how else will you learn it without an impartial measure? Is there inside of us a deep down ticker that we only need to unlock?

I cannot tell for others, but I certainly have some kind of a metronome in my head (or whereever it is). It keeps ticking and does not allow me to slow down and think in the harder parts. Sometimes I should when I practice, so I would need to learn to turn this thing off. I just haven't found the switch yet 
I also think it is the main reason why I cannot stand the metronome, having two things ticking at the same time is too much...

[hfmadopter]

I cannot tell for others, but I certainly have some kind of a metronome in my head (or wherever it is). It keeps ticking and does not allow me to slow down and think in the harder parts. Sometimes I should when I practice, so I would need to learn to turn this thing off. I just haven't found the switch yet  
I also think it is the main reason why I cannot stand the metronome, having two things ticking at the same time is too much...

I find that interesting. I can get off rhythm sometimes but overall I just feel my way through a piece. I more get into the singing end of the music and emotion but do not get the tick you speak of but can just feel a sense of rhythm. You probably can get into your Scarlatti and Baroque that way, I can see that and my situation more into the romantics. You can not turn off the tick in your head and I can not turn off the singing of a piece in my head ! The more people's experiences I read about in these forums the more similarities I find we all have but maybe in different ways. Musicians/ pianists/people interested in piano  have more in common than not in common I have found in the last 10 months of being here and yet all of us are from all different parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds.


All that said, I am not a fan of getting stuck on metronomes. We need that inner rhythm to just work. In romantic pieces or otherwise highly charged emotional pieces especially a metronome, IMO is rendered useless. In pieces where there is a lot of expression we need to be able to let absolutes stretch a bit. Getting stuck on a metronome would produce a very different effect in romantic era music.

[slobone]

I guess I think metronomes are more useful for beginners, especially children, who haven't yet developed good brain-hand coordination. It probably trains them to be aware of rhythm. Naturally that should be supplemented with getting them to count out loud.

Once you've developed a good basic piano technique, I don't know if metronomes are the way to go. You need to be able to play evenly, not just in Baroque music but quite often in later composers. But at that point your approach to playing should be, have the idea in your head of how you want it to sound, then reproduce that idea on the keyboard. And naturally that idea should include the rhythm, whether strict or rubato. In other words, if you don't already have the control to do what you want, developing that should be your highest priority.

And of course I still use them to give me a general idea of the tempo of a piece, especially if the composer herself has put them in the score.

[outin]

I find that interesting. I can get off rhythm sometimes but overall I just feel my way through a piece. I more get into the singing end of the music and emotion but do not get the tick you speak of but can just feel a sense of rhythm. You probably can get into your Scarlatti and Baroque that way, I can see that and my situation more into the romantics. You can not turn off the tick in your head and I can not turn off the singing of a piece in my head ! The more people's experiences I read about in these forums the more similarities I find we all have but maybe in different ways. Musicians/ pianists/people interested in piano  have more in common than not in common I have found in the last 10 months of being here and yet all of us are from all different parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds.


All that said, I am not a fan of getting stuck on metronomes. We need that inner rhythm to just work. In romantic pieces or otherwise highly charged emotional pieces especially a metronome, IMO is rendered useless. In pieces where there is a lot of expression we need to be able to let absolutes stretch a bit. Getting stuck on a metronome would produce a very different effect in romantic era music.

I do sing too in my head. I just often have to remind myself to breath when I sing
The metronome is still there, telling me how long the individual measures or notes have to be, it's just more flexible... I hope...

[hfmadopter]

I do sing too in my head. I just often have to remind myself to breath when I sing
The metronome is still there, telling me how long the individual measures or notes have to be, it's just more flexible... I hope...

Probably.

[hfmadopter]

I guess I think metronomes are more useful for beginners, especially children, who haven't yet developed good brain-hand coordination. It probably trains them to be aware of rhythm. Naturally that should be supplemented with getting them to count out loud.

Once upon a time I thought I had to have a metronome, even though my teacher was not a fan. She was a fan of a metronome for meter or speed if you will but not to play by. I was with this teacher for a good ten years, we may have used the metronome three or four times to establish speed.. I did buy one, used it three or four times, I have no clue where it is at now. If I ever find it, it's probably considered an antique now !

Alas, my digital pano has a metronome that I have used about three or four times so far. I seem to be stuck on that pattern.

[oxy60]

Once upon a time I thought I had to have a metronome, even though my teacher was not a fan. She was a fan of a metronome for meter or speed if you will but not to play by. I was with this teacher for a good ten years, we may have used the metronome three or four times to establish speed.. I did buy one, used it three or four times, I have no clue where it is at now. If I ever find it, it's probably considered an antique now !

Alas, my digital pano has a metronome that I have used about three or four times so far. I seem to be stuck on that pattern.

A metronome is not suitable for every piece or every style.

Many discussions on this board seems to eventually come down to someone using a negative global approach argument to trash any suggestion. In other words "if it doesn't work in every case it's trash!" Aren't we musicians and more open to different thoughts or ideas than other people?

Maybe you only need to check the tempo or need to keep the entire piece the same tempo. Maybe you plan to do studio work and lay in tracks to match what others have done. Maybe you need to equalize the various sections of a long piece to show the contrasts. In these cases and a ton  more the metronome can be helpful. It is not an end all solution.

[hfmadopter]

Many discussions on this board seems to eventually come down to someone using a negative global approach argument to trash any suggestion. In other words "if it doesn't work in every case it's trash!" Aren't we musicians and more open to different thoughts or ideas than other people?

Yes definately, I see your point !

[ajspiano]

OK, so exactly how does one develop good meter for playing alone?

I think the issue is that the metronome gives you the beat, which means you can learn to keep time to it without feeling the beat. This is as opposed to when playing with other musicians, with parts that are not on the beat always you need to be able to feel where the beat is, without there necessarily being sound accompanying it.

And, i think playing with others is a key part of developing a sense of time/meter that will be used when playing solo. Something that if missing can be developed in students by the teacher playing with them using good time in a variety of contexts, and/or play duets with others, playing along with recordings at home etc. playing by ear generally, counting the beat while playing..

The metronome can be part of the puzzle but its certainly not a fix by itself. - I use it primarily to set the practice tempo, and sometimes to help maintain it during play, but not usually to directly develop the ability to maintain a tempo. I try to have a student able to do that by the time I suggest using a metronome to set a practice speed for a given piece.