breathing techniques

[rjarsenault1101]

does anyone else play sax, or a reed instrument, or even a wind instrument? can you help me out with some breathing techniques?

[iansinclair]

eh?  Like... what?  How do you mean?

I played french horn at one time, and have sung all my life.  Getting effective breathing is not something easily described in words; it helps a great deal to have a coach watch you.

Perhaps the most important thing is to remember that your breath support for any wind instrument or singing comes from the diaphragm.  If you aren't using the diaphragm, you are in grave difficulty!  (by the way -- don't even try to play or sing immediately after a good meal; your diaphragm has no room to move).

There are a number of breathing exercises which can help with control -- but I would strongly suggest working with your teacher, if you have one, or some other coach, since so much of it is physical (a good voice teacher or vocal coach may be more helpful than an instrumental coach).

[Bob]

Good posture.  The upper body is the same while sitting or standing.  The skeleton can hold the body's weight.  It evolved to hold itself up without using the muscles.

Relaxed.

Lead with the abs.  Abs move first to suck in air.  Abs move first to push out air.  Focus on the middle of the abs, up and in, in the middle/center in line with the bottom of the rib "wings" on the sides.  I think that's also some power chakra spot.

You can purse your lips or breath through something like a straw or mouthpiece for extra resistance, like lifting a weight with your breathing muscles.

I think that's about it.  Crunches or situps can help a bit to tighten and strengthen everything up a bit.

[j_menz]

The only reed instrument I've played is the bagpipes. Breathing was hard, deep and often.  The secret was not to pass out.

I suspect other reed instruments require something a little more subtle.

Try google, with the instrument you have in mind and "breathing exercises" as the seach term.

[Bob]

If you walk around a bit it's more difficult to get too much oxygen.  I've purposely tried and can't get dizzy if I'm just pacing back and forth.  I'll still have too much or more than I'm used to, but I won't pass out from it.

[Bob]

Or if you don't have any time.  Haha.  "Big, deep breath!"  "Use some air!"  "Move that diaphram!"

[rjarsenault1101]

Good posture.  The upper body is the same while sitting or standing.  The skeleton can hold the body's weight.  It evolved to hold itself up without using the muscles.

Relaxed.

Lead with the abs.  Abs move first to suck in air.  Abs move first to push out air.  Focus on the middle of the abs, up and in, in the middle/center in line with the bottom of the rib "wings" on the sides.  I think that's also some power chakra spot.

You can purse your lips or breath through something like a straw or mouthpiece for extra resistance, like lifting a weight with your breathing muscles.

I think that's about it.  Crunches or situps can help a bit to tighten and strengthen everything up a bit.

that soudns like a really good description of what to do. I'll try that thanks

[Bob]

Another tip.  Stick one hand on your chest/collar bone.  The other on that middle/push spot below the middle ribs and the side "rib wings."  It gives you more information when you breath in and out. 

You can also use a metronome to space out sucking air in and pushing it out.  And there are breathing devices or even a piece of paper will work -- You blow out on that and you can see the air working (or not working). 

Filling up a bread bag with air.  Another one.  You can also generally measure your lung capacity that way.

[birba]

Someone into reed instruments tell me if this is true:
An oboist i knew years ago said he could fool the alcohol baloon test with his breathing technique.

[j_menz]

Someone into reed instruments tell me if this is true:
An oboist i knew years ago said he could fool the alcohol baloon test with his breathing technique.

It's possible (unless breathelizers are now sophisticated enough to stop it). Some wind/brass players use a circular breathing technique that allows them to breathe air from their mouth continuously while breathing in and out through their nose. If they could channel the fresh air straight to the mouth and breath it out, it would (unless they were spectacularly tanked) not have any significant alcohol content.

EDIT: Whilst I've seen the technique used (not for booze-busa avoidance, incidentally), my understanding was that the extra air in the mouth originated from the lung so wouldn't help at all.

[timothy42b]

Take big relaxed breaths, don't obsess about breathing technique, never empty the lungs past the relaxed exhalation point (don't force air out).  This is from the trombone viewpoint, I don't know if sax is different. 

If you get a chance go to Bodyworld and look at real exploded human anatomy.  The lungs are neither where you think nor as big as you think. 

[Bob]

I've noticed sometimes if I push wrong it must block off the blood flow to the brain.  I start to pass out.  After a doing that a couple times I learned.  It's more when I have a cold or change something about breathing.

So it's wise to be able to lie on the floor and hopefully recognize when things are starting to shut down.

It actually started happening the other night.  It's a strange effect.  I didn't remember who I was, what I was doing.  I was aware that I was starting to blank out and started making sure I wasn't going to fall.  But for that one moment, everything is blanked out.  No self, no worries, nothing.  At least I'm pretty sure it was from breathing.  That would be amusing if I were having a heart attack and was sitting around observing it while I'm dying. 

[timothy42b]

  That would be amusing if I were having a heart attack and was sitting around observing it while I'm dying. 

Sounds more like a stroke.

Seriously, this really should be checked out.  That isn't normal. 

[Bob]

It only happens if I push the air a certain way.  Wouldn't be a bad way to go though, to die from practicing.  There's no pain involved.  Unless you hit something on the way down.  Two times I've found out the hard way.  I think two times.  One for sure.  I woke up on the ground, no clue what was going on.  Then reality began to dawn on me.  In a few minutes I realized I'd passed out. 

[timothy42b]

  Wouldn't be a bad way to go though, to die from practicing. 

It would be a bad way for me, until I get much much better at playing! 

[birba]

We used to do that when we were kids!  Better then sniffing glue!

[Bob]

I'm not a big fan of it.  Although it is interesting how the sound comes back into focus.  In the moment I think I can hear fine, but then I start hearing higher frequencies or background noise.