Practice techniques for Ligeti Etudes?

[virtuoso80]

As is my nature, I've been inspired by the challenge of attempting to learn a couple of the Ligeti Etudes for piano. The two that have most caught my eye at this point are No. 4 - Fanfares, and No. 13 - The Devil's Staircase. Does anyone have any advice on practice techniques for these terribly complicated works? I'm sure a big part is just putting in massive amounts of time into it, but are there any methods you've found to be especially helpful? Did you memorize early? Practice hands separately a lot first?

PS - Don't you think Ligeti's dynamic markings get a little ridiculous?

[andreslr6]

I haven't played any of them, the closest I've been to one is by an ex-student of my current teacher that played "fanfares". But I have played other 20th-21st century music, and still the only different approach I've taken when learning something atonal-postonal etc. (like Ligetti eventually), is just when analyzing. All the mechanics are the same as in Bach or Liszt, maybe you'll encounter extended techniques like clusters or putting your hands over the strings, etc. but not in Ligetti, (and still it's not something difficult, if any just knowing where the 5th harmonic and the 8th ones are in a string.)

But anyways, just the harmonic-structural analysis is where you should focus your different approach, technique and mechanics stay practically the same as in everything, probably you'll just need a more agressive and/or percussive approach with the sound, Ligetti was like obsessed with polyrhythm .

And arm/full body weight for the extreme dynamics you mentioned

[virtuoso80]

And arm/full body weight for the extreme dynamics you mentioned Tongue

I am of the view that ppppppppp and ffffffffff are useless dynamic markings. No one is physically capable of that many and so specific a dynamic gradient, and you should be able to express anything you want using only fff to ppp, with perhaps a morendo or molto pesante or the like to get specific intents across.

[j_menz]

I am of the view that ppppppppp and ffffffffff are useless dynamic markings. No one is physically capable of that many and so specific a dynamic gradient, and you should be able to express anything you want using only fff to ppp, with perhaps a morendo or molto pesante or the like to get specific intents across.

Haha, I so agree!  My favourite marking in this regard comes from Percy Grainger (who tended to be a bit fascist in his markings). It's in, I think, his English Country Garden. At the end, he has a long crescendo through various ff fff fffff etc and then at the end he just puts "Lots".

[andreslr6]

I am of the view that ppppppppp and ffffffffff are useless dynamic markings. No one is physically capable of that many and so specific a dynamic gradient, and you should be able to express anything you want using only fff to ppp, with perhaps a morendo or molto pesante or the like to get specific intents across.

hahah, I have to see those indications, I really didn't expect them to be more than 4 f's when you mentioned them.