Chopin etude (most difficult)

[beethovenopus2no3movt2]

which do you think is the hardest Chopin etude to execute ?

[danhuyle]

It's that question...again.

[virtuoso80]

I does amaze me how often this is asked, lol. There's no right answer, and it's different for everyone. For me, I find Op. 25, No. 3 harder than most seem to, but the infamous Op. 25, No. 11 not as daunting as its reputation. I think most people agree that Op. 10, No. 2 is one of the hardest.

[wnlqxod]

Op. 10: It is a tie for 10-1 and 10-2.
Op. 25: It is a tie for 25-3, 25-6, and 25-7 (25-7 is a paraphrase on the opera Norma; it is a very common, and serious, pitfall to schmaltz the "moments" and forget about "phrases"- kinda like missing the forest while you stare at a tree).

On this note: if you can play any one of 10-1 or 10-2 well, then you will be able to easily impress other pianists, not just lay people. If you can play both of them well, you are a real somebody.

[j_menz]

which do you think is the hardest Chopin etude to execute ?

Depends on whether you plan on using a firing squad, a guillotine or an electrical chair. 

[ajspiano]

Depends on whether you plan on using a firing squad, a guillotine or an electrical chair. 

Surely the chair could be re-designed a little to send midi signal..

I feel the noose may be a particularly tough option for the more delicate works.

[andreslr6]

Depends on whether you plan on using a firing squad, a guillotine or an electrical chair. 

and considering how much this is asked too, I'm sure it'll take a great effort to achieve a successful execution...

[ajspiano]

I'm sure it'll take a great effort to achieve a successful execution...

My suspicion is that the chopin etudes are immortal - much like gods, and will be praised and worshipped by the majority for ever and ever unless there is some kind of major global event that destroys every last remnant of them and all knowledge of their existence.

[outin]

My suspicion is that the chopin etudes are immortal - much like gods, and will be praised and worshipped by the majority for ever and ever unless there is some kind of major global event that destroys every last remnant of them and all knowledge of their existence.

You mean something like R-4 ending the world with his Mysterium?

I wonder how Alexander would feel if his work was used to execute the Chopin etudes...

[chopin2015]

Depends on whether you plan on using a firing squad, a guillotine or an electrical chair. 

Well then, on topic: I was thinking of trading one of my classical guitars for 2 hand-carved medieval chairs! I really want one with a scary gargoyles carved into the crown of the chair...

[ade16]

which do you think is the hardest Chopin etude to execute ?

Which one do you think, based on your own experience? Can you even play any of them? You seem to be very good at asking very open ended questions but not contributing very much at all to the discussion yourself! You never even seem to respond to anyone else's posts which have arisen from your tantalizing questions!!!
 

[4greatkeyboards]

Horowitz said that for him it was Opus 25 No 11 "Winter Wind". He said "I thought my right hand was going to fall off!

I tend to agree but also feel OP. 25 No 12 is a main contender. No 11 requires dexterity. No 12 requires strength and forced breathing, imho.

Oh, breathing: how many push-ups can you do? Try it. Now, rest and try again using forced breathing. By that I mean consciously breath hard, deeply, and fast. This aides in preventing fatigue. Simple to test. Try it. It works. You may need it for No 12 (like I do).,

[chopin2015]

Horowitz said that for him it was Opus 25 No 11 "Winter Wind". He said "I thought my right hand was going to fall off!

I tend to agree but also feel OP. 25 No 12 is a main contender. No 11 requires dexterity. No 12 requires strength and forced breathing, imho.

Oh, breathing: how many push-ups can you do? Try it. Now, rest and try again using forced breathing. By that I mean consciously breath hard, deeply, and fast. This aides in preventing fatigue. Simple to test. Try it. It works. You may need it for No 12 (like I do).,

Lol the countless times i tried to play op 25 no 11 and either almost hurt myself, soiled myself, ran out of breath, or all of the above...yet, it was my first successful etude and now i am memorizing a 5th one with positive results!

[ajspiano]

Horowitz said that for him it was Opus 25 No 11 "Winter Wind". He said "I thought my right hand was going to fall off!

Actually, in "evenings with horowitz" he said it was 10/1..

"For me, the most difficult one of all (the études) is the C Major, the first one, Op. 10, No. 1."

Do you have a reference for your comment?

[ajspiano]

..I'm also just going to reference this post.

Which should be linked to, and closely followed by a thread lock everytime this question is asked.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=45886.msg500486#msg500486

[chopin2015]

I still say, listen to horowitz op 25 no5
That is the hardest etude, imo. This is the second time i am trying to learn it! Arrrgh...the melody is difficult with all the extra pizazz. And some of the left hand is like....u want me to do what?!  I am still having to omit that bottom note in the rolled chords for tempo sake.

[ajspiano]

And some of the left hand is like....u want me to do what?!  I am still having to omit that bottom note in the rolled chords for tempo sake.

If the those chords are the problem how exactly do you feel about 10/11?

[4greatkeyboards]

@Ajspiano

re: op 25 No 11 VH hand falling off

"Do you have a reference for this?"

Yes, I do. It is in the book "Reflections From The Keyboard", by David Dubal, in an interview with VH. I do not have the book at hand so cannot sight the page number. As a fellow pianist, I do not doubt your citing, either, but had not heard of it before.

[ajspiano]

@Ajspiano

re: op 25 No 11 VH hand falling off

"Do you have a reference for this?"

Yes, I do. It is in the book "Reflections From The Keyboard", by David Dubal, in an interview with VH. I do not have the book at hand so cannot sight the page number. As a fellow pianist, I do not doubt your citing, either, but had not heard of it before.

I will have to check it out..  I don't doubt he said that about his hand.. more curious as to whether he may have named 25/11 as the most difficult.

[chopin2015]

If the those chords are the problem how exactly do you feel about 10/11?

Oohhh noooo lol

But not as bad. Atleast the hands follow one another and u can play with tempo a little more. The right hand in op 25 no 5 is so important! It changes in how the melody is written, too. Which is brutal! In 10 12 there is only 1 rolled chord like that, here there is one after the other in that crazy tempo! Also, 10.2 is pretty difficult to pull off the correct fingerings.

[pianist1976]

Actually, in "evenings with horowitz" he said it was 10/1..

"For me, the most difficult one of all (the études) is the C Major, the first one, Op. 10, No. 1."

Do you have a reference for your comment?

I always thought that Horowitz said that the most difficult etude was Op 10 no. 2. Did he said something like it was impossible to play for him? Unfortunately I can't remember where I read it or listened to this so I may be wrong.

[virtuoso80]

I was inspired to go through the etudes and mark how far along I was in each:

10/1 - Can do smoothly a bit below tempo. Not awful.
10/2 - Still experience finger jumbling and fatigue. Also, can't get dynamic control I want. Easily one of the hardest.
10/3 - Performed long ago, although I've gotten better at it since.
10/4 - Still get fingering problems I haven't worked out. Also one of the hardest
10/5 - Playable, and fun!
10/6 - I love this one. Never performed, but feel confident in it.
10/7 - Like many, I kind of neglect this one.
10/8 - Challenging, but playable.
10/9 - Performed years ago, but not to my liking. Shouldn't be that hard, but for some reason still gives me headaches trying to polish it.
10/10 - People say this is one of the hardest, but I don't think so. I find the different phrasings to be fun.
10/11 - A headache. One of the hardest.
10/12 - Performed. Awesome.

25/1 - I have to be relaxed and in the right headspace to get the feel right, but very satisfying when you do.
25/2 - Not hard. Got bored and neglected it.
25/3 - I still avoid this one. One of the hardest.
25/4 - I worked on it extensively, but still miss notes! Grrrr!
25/5 - Trickier than you think when you really try to get it performance-worthy, but I really enjoy it and don't find it terrible.
25/6 - I avoided this one for a long time, but was assigned it by a teacher and realized I can actually play it now. Still quite difficult, though.
25/7 - I still attest this is one of the hardest, if you really want to get the phrasing and control of the melodies right. Sure I can play through it, but I'm never satisfied with it.
25/8 - Performed. Fun and not that hard.
25/9 - Performed. Also fun.
25/10 - How seriously are you 'holding' those notes out in the middle of the octaves? I have to fake it a bit, because my hand just can't do it. Great piece for pounding out some aggression.
25/11 - Working on now. Actually playable! The RH falls into place easier than 10/2 IMO.
25/12 - Performed. Love it. If I'm not warmed up it can fall apart pretty easily, but once you get in the groove not one of the hardest IMO.

[johnnybarkshop]

We could discuss the wonderful Chopin Etudes for ever; however, Op.10 No.1 is probably the most difficult one.  It has to be at a very fast speed, and be fairly loud. It has huge, tortuous gaps between some of the fingers.

[chopin2015]

We could discuss the wonderful Chopin Etudes for ever; however, Op.10 No.1 is probably the most difficult one.  It has to be at a very fast speed, and be fairly loud. It has huge, tortuous gaps between some of the fingers.

Don't they most?

[beethovenopus2no3movt2]

According to Barkshop Op.10 No.1 is probably the most difficult one.  It has to be at a very fast speed, and be fairly loud. It has huge, tortuous gaps between some of the fingers.

Vladimir Ashkenazy was an exceptional pianist with brilliant speed and accuracy. I knew this the first time I heard him play the Opus 10 no 1. ty 

[johnnybarkshop]

A special Hi! to chopin2015

In the Left hand of the E minor Etude, you might be trying too hard and getting stiff in the wrist. Treat each note separately, as if notes of a broken chord.  Play each one firmly and slowly (to help establish patterns in the brain) and make sure your hand is always moving to the right (ie. in the same direction as the notes).  Gradually you can increase the speed and make the notes softer.  Aim for the top note each time. 

[johnnybarkshop]

Don't forget the Trois Nouvelles Etudes.  They are short but beautiful. 

The A flat one is 2 against 3 and is a delight. 

The F minor is mysterious and dark and revels in 3 against 4.  I learned, many years ago, not to avoid this problem of cross rhythms, so I am able to play them here and in the B minor Sonata (last mvt.).  Also, in the Fantasie Impromptu.

The D flat Etude is breezy, and an engaging piece.  It has lots of harmonic clashes, and the simultaneous RH. staccato and legato is very difficult.

[chopin2015]

A special Hi! to chopin2015

In the Left hand of the E minor Etude, you might be trying too hard and getting stiff in the wrist. Treat each note separately, as if notes of a broken chord.  Play each one firmly and slowly (to help establish patterns in the brain) and make sure your hand is always moving to the right (ie. in the same direction as the notes).  Gradually you can increase the speed and make the notes softer.  Aim for the top note each time. 

Indeed. I have a very short pinkie, so those 2 first notes in those extra long chords is almost a jump, not a roll. Like I said, I am omiting the first note and rolling the other 3 so I can hit the top note in tempo. Not too bad so far, but some of the intervarls are not very friendly to female hands...lol

[johnnybarkshop]

Hi!  it must be annoying to have such a short pinkie.  But you CAN play all the notes if you jump off the first one.  You say, yourself, that you are almost jumping. Make it a conscious jump, 'cos it is really important that you try and play the bass notes.  Jump off the note and move the hand to the right continuously.

Good luck.   

[chopin2015]

Hi!  it must be annoying to have such a short pinkie.  But you CAN play all the notes if you jump off the first one.  You say, yourself, that you are almost jumping. Make it a conscious jump, 'cos it is really important that you try and play the bass notes.  Jump off the note and move the hand to the right continuously.

Good luck.   

I see! Yeah, I played through the whole thing today, actually. I started it on Monday. The tempo isn't too bad right now, either! The part where im to play 6ths with my 5th and second finger kindof sucks, but this etude has really helped me with that and many other things! Im doing op 10 no 2 next.