I watched Immortal Beloved, and

[jbmajor]

I thought it was a pretty good movie.  Not exactly sure how true it all is, but was an interesting story nonetheless. 

[julie391]

it isnt really true at all

very romanticised, and misleading to classical novices.

but i did find it very entertaining!!

and emotional too  very sad and moving

[donjuan]

I like the part when Beethoven bursts into the house and yells "arrest that ***!!!" and the guy in the bed with the girl pulls out the marriage certificate from under the covers. haha what else do they have down there?

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I like the part when Beethoven bursts into the house and yells "arrest that sleeper!!!" and the guy in the bed with the girl pulls out the marriage certificate from under the covers. haha what else do they have down there?

Ummm.... he didn't say "arrest that 'sleeper'" *Clears throat*

Anyway, I love that movie. Obviously, a lot of it was made up or elaborated on. But what do you expect?


Ludwig Van Rachabji

[julie391]

of course, beethoven's real life probably isnt interesting enough for the mass audience..

much like the reason for the whole salieri amadeus thing

[donjuan]

I like the part when Beethoven bursts into the house and yells "arrest that sleeper!!!" and the guy in the bed with the girl pulls out the marriage certificate from under the covers. haha what else do they have down there?

Ummm.... he didn't say "arrest that 'sleeper'" *Clears throat*

ah its that automatic censor thing on the word "whore".  I didnt mess around with it like I just did, so it was automatically changed to "sleeper".
donjuan

[Daniel_piano]

Beloved Immortal is a complete work of fiction based on existing characters and hystorical facts, like Anastacia story
There's nothig wrong in using real facts and people to tale a fictional story, but the danger is when people believe that the fiction is actually what really happened
This surely happened with Amadeus by Petersen that despite depicting false characterization of Mozart personality, popularity and completely playing havoc with historycal facts is by many considered a true biography of Mozart life

Daniel

[donjuan]

Beloved Immortal is a complete work of fiction based on existing characters and hystorical facts, like Anastacia story
There's nothig wrong in using real facts and people to tale a fictional story, but the danger is when people believe that the fiction is actually what really happened
This surely happened with Amadeus by Petersen that despite depicting false characterization of Mozart personality, popularity and completely playing havoc with historycal facts is by many considered a true biography of Mozart life

Daniel

Yeah, I know what you mean.  It's like how some people think "saving private Ryan" was a true story...
in fact, it is a fictional story based on actual events.
donjuan

[pianofancy]

Is it possible to download it to PC and watch the entir movie on internet? Any one who knows? 

[julie391]

Is it possible to download it to PC and watch the entir movie on internet? Any one who knows? 

i think emule and similar programs may be able to help

[donjuan]

Is it possible to download it to PC and watch the entir movie on internet? Any one who knows? 

i am sure you can, but if you get caught (and yes, they have ways) in some countries, you are in deep trouble..
havent you seen that commercial with the stunt devil talking about pirating?

[julie391]

so many people use emule - its a pretty slim chance youll get caught or fined

its a moral question - this movie has been on tv before anyways - you are just unlucky to have missed it, and downloading it shouldnt be a morally wrong

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I wouldn't be worried about it. Seriously, I don't think you will burn in hell for downloading a movie.

Of course, the Lord works in mysterious ways... 

Ludwig Van Rachabji

[bernhard]

I thought it was a pretty good movie.  Not exactly sure how true it all is, but was an interesting story nonetheless. 

It was a very good movie, but totally inaccurate in several points (Joanna was not the immortal beloved and Schindler was not a nice guy), but there were some good points, like the idea that Karl may have been Beethoven’s son. That would explain a lot. I thought Gary Oldman was a very good choice to portray Beethoven (does any one finds him uncannily similar to Nigel Kennedy?).

Also, have a look here:

https://www.jamesweggreview.org/Reviews_Film/Rose's%20Immortal_Beloved_1994.htm

https://www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/immortal.html

Best wishes
Bernhard

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Hmm.... Schindler wasn't a nice guy? I have a biography on Beethoven on my shelf but haven't bothered reading it yet. What exactly made him "not nice"?

[bernhard]

Hmm.... Schindler wasn't a nice guy? I have a biography on Beethoven on my shelf but haven't bothered reading it yet. What exactly made him "not nice"?

Schindler is portrayed by most Beethoven’s biographers as a very creepy guy indeed.

He entered Beethoven’s life when Beethoven was already completely deaf, old, tired and very impatient with his fellow human beings (around 1820). So he left much of his mundane affairs to be taken care of by Schindler. Schindler used this position of confidence to interfere in many of Beethoven’s affairs, many times without Beethoven’s knowledge.

Originally Schindler sought Beethoven as a fervent admirer of his music. He offered Beethoven his services for free so that he could make Beethoven’s life as easy as possible and free him from day to day worries and in this way he would be free to compose. So far so good. Beethoven accepted his offer and Schindler started working for him as a private secretary. In the beginning everything went smoothly, but soon Schindler started to use his position as a means of personal empowerment. No one could see Beethoven unless he allowed, this sort of thing.

Eventually Beethoven caught on with what was going on and kicked him out (around 1824).

Now comes the next chapter in the story. Somehow, Schindler squirmed his way back into Beethoven’s life so that when Beethoven died (1827), Schindler somehow managed to put himself in the position of organising Beethoven’s personal papers. And here he did the deed for which he is hated until this day by every musicologist.

Beethoven went completely deaf around 1812. From then on he used “conversation notebooks” to communicate with his visitors: They would write their questions comments (since Beethoven could not hear) and he would reply orally. By the time of his death there were around 400 conversation notebooks.

Schindler destroyed 240 of those and altered many of the rest, in short a wealth of irreplaceable material of the utmost biographical and historical interest. Schindler’s explanation for doing so was simple: He wanted to “protect the master’s memory”. The remaining (some altered) 160 notebooks disappeared in Eastern Europe during the 2nd World War and haven’t been seen since.

Moreover, after a certain amount of time had elapsed, Schindler sold to antiquarians many of the sketch books (the ultimate source to show how Beethoven actually composed), and these antiquarians sold them by the page, that is they literally ripped each book apart and spread them, so that we may never know how Beethoven developed most of his compositions.

Musicologists have been looking for these pages all over, and trying to put the sketch books together again, but with limited success. As an example, consider the sketch book acquired by the antiquarian Sauer in 1827, which contains amongst other works the sketches for the Moonlight sonata. The original sketch book had 96 pages. Sauer sold each page separately to souvenir hunters. Musicologists succeeded over the years in recovering and putting together 22 of these pages (5 of which contain sketches for the finale of the Moonlight and 17 pages contain sketches for sonata op. 28 and the string quintet op. 29), this gives you a general idea of the magnitude of the loss.

Schindler then wrote a sugary biography of Beethoven, full of misguided information, in which Beethoven is depicted as nothing short of a saint, and any negative opinions about him are not to be found. Here is a quote from a review of this biography:

[…]he [Schindler} also had innumerable axes to grind, so that what might have been a peculiarly intimate portrait became distorted through self-importance, malice, and a desire to save "our master" (Schindler's habitual term) from criticism of any kind, with the result that his production is only of limited value to us today.
(Alan Tyson: Knock knock, who is there – The New York Review of Books – vol. 22, no. 9 - 29/5/1975)

Most biographies of Beethoven will have this information. The best one is of course Thayer’s Life of Beethoven, since it was written shortly after his death and Thayer had the chance to interview many of Beethoven’s contemporaries. Amongst the most recent ones I particularly like Maynard Solomon’s. You can also try the very entertaining fictionalised biography written by John Suchet (“The last master”, 3 volumes).

Also, have a look here:

https://www.madaboutbeethoven.com/pages/people_and_places/people_friends/biog_schindler.htm

Schindler (a mediocre violinist) also squirmed his way into Schubert’s circle a couple of years before Schubert’s death.


Best wishes,
Bernhard.