Any car nerds on here?

[chopin2015]

Hey! Or should I say, vrooom vrooom!

Anyways. I am looking at electric vehicles. I currently have an acura integra gs 1998. I am trying to compare the specs of the teg to the specs of the nissan leaf. What do you think? Does the leaf really weigh 3366 lbs (curb) compared to my teg's 2595(curb)?! Could someone help me compare important specs of the 2 cars and share what they think?

[j_menz]

I am looking at electric vehicles.

Then you are not a car nerd. 

[chopin2015]

Then you are not a car nerd. 

I want to update my integra! It is a sweet car that I like to drive, but gas has got to go! Gotta be a leader to make a change!

[iansinclair]

Then you are not a car nerd. 

Oh I don't know... although certainly not a gear head!  Maybe car nerd is appropriate for electric vehicles?

But on the topic... I have a nephew who has a Leaf, and is reasonably happy with it.  I say "reasonably" because he is able to recognise, and live with, its very real and very significant limitations in exchange for "no gas".  The limitations are mostly -- not surprisingly -- range related, but fortunately for him is commute with it is only about 20 miles each way, and it can do that (just barely) in the winter time.  Summer time the range is better.  In the winter time, though, he has to be very careful about using too much battery (no fast starts, no freeway driving, no heat except defroster if absolutely needed, etc.) or he simply isn't going to make it home.

On the other hand, he finds that it is a pleasant enough car to drive for his commuting.

The family owns another car for everything else they do.

As far as "green" considerations, depends on how your electricity is generated.  Where my nephew lives, about a quarter of his power is nuclear, so the Leaf is significantly better at the global warming thing than a gasoline car.  Where I live, almost all of my power is coal or gas -- so a Leaf would be a LOT worse than my Hybrid.

And yes, it is heavier than your Integra; the main difference is the battery.

(This is also true of my Honda Civic Hybrid, which is heavier than my daughter's straight Civic).

Now back to the gear head/car nerd thing... best ride I ever owned was a 1966 Buick Skylark GS Stage II convertible.  Red.  Now that was a car...  I had to sell it when my son turned 16 and got his license; he'd have killed himself in it.  Wish I still had it!

[chopin2015]

Neat! Yeah, I'm thinking of staying in Texas just so I can use an electric car year round until wevcome up with reasonable improvements. In Kingsville they have wind generated power. I know, huh? How rad is that!?

[oxy60]

Hey! Or should I say, vrooom vrooom!

Anyways. I am looking at electric vehicles. I currently have an acura integra gs 1998. I am trying to compare the specs of the teg to the specs of the nissan leaf. What do you think? Does the leaf really weigh 3366 lbs (curb) compared to my teg's 2595(curb)?! Could someone help me compare important specs of the 2 cars and share what they think?

Be careful! The Leaf won't just plug in anywhere. We rented one and couldn't find a normal receptacle (120v/20A) that would charge it. If you need to install a special outlet at home double check local permits and codes. You don't want to spend more rewiring your house (to conform to code) than you spent on the car!

Otherwise it is like driving/riding (in) a street car, that slushy acceleration and wondering if you can catch up to traffic.

[chopin2015]

Thanks for the info! I will check in the area and see what type of electric system works best in that area. Ill see what and where the charging stations are! Im sooo excited.
But yeah, I want to rent because owning one can be too expensive if the batteries fail. Someday I will convert my integra to solar power. It's a perfectly good body and leather interior, simple electronic features. It would be perfect!

[lloyd_cdb]

[lloyd_cdb]

[hfmadopter]

I want to update my integra! It is a sweet car that I like to drive, but gas has got to go! Gotta be a leader to make a change!

If this is your reason to go electric then I don't agree. I believe the real change has not come yet and no need to suffer with inferior products meanwhile. By the real change, I mean that has not evolved as yet and a car that can't get out of it's own way and can only go if you are lucky that day, maybe 70 miles before it needs a charge is a poor excuse for a product. I believe that if someone is interested in "green" and being part of that movement, then huge cargo ships spewing 3/4 burned bunker oil cruising all over the world to deliver battery parts to be assembled in some location unknown to me because no one country wants to be the sole party involved in the manufacture  of large scale lithium batteries is something that needs to change long before I give up my petroleum powered cars. Not to mention putting the same batteries to death. Cradle to grave impact finacially and to the environment on those things is possibly far more rediculous than anything petroleum powered.

Get a more efficient car, certainly, that's great. We breath the air that cars exhaust into. I work for a large company that has a fleet of 2200 vehicles between 17 locations. A couple of things have happened lately with them. They came and left with Toyota Prius Hybrids to go back to Ford Focus cars for sales staff. The tax break did not offset the added cost in vehicle purchase and the gas savings weren't there in that kind of business. The New Focus is rated at just under 40MPG highway, close enough considering the lower purchase price and less costly repairs ( incidentally the Mazda 3 is basically the same car and gets better mileage). Electric is just plain out of the picture, the sales staff could never finish a days work in one of those.

Another thing happening, is carbon monoxide detectors will not go off in the shops or warehouses with running vehicles in them. I took a monoxide detector and placed it right against the tailpipe of a Saturn Hybrid with the engine running and it did not go off. A propane power forktruck though will still set one off with fairly high numbers. It's OSHA LAW to have monoxide detectors thorughout all these commercial locations.

New diesel trucks are having a hard time passing inspection on emissions standards,  not because they run with too much soot output but not enough to set the sniff machines to get a reading. All diesel trucks by law have to be sniffed for exhaust output ( emissions) to pass DOT inspection in this state and I suspect in the US, since DOT is federal. The way that is done is by running a snap test. A wand is put in the trucks exhaust with the engine idling. Traditionally, in the last 6 or 7 years or so there has never been a problem with emissions at idle, it's when the engine revs up off idle that the output comes and that has had to be within a certain standard. It's why you don't see newer diesel trucks spewing the black cloud you used to see. Well the new breed of diesels in the big trucks today produce not enough change in emissions from idle to off idle for the machine to detect the change, which is read as no change. So no snap to higher emissions is detected and it's an automatic fail as if the snap never occured= same result, failed.. They can fail on too high an emission reading or no snap ( if you get all that ).

For the time being, IMO, petroleum is still the best we have out there and we are not putting much at all for emissions out of todays petroleum powered vehicles, you would be hard pressed to snuff yourself in the garage with todays cars, in fact I'd wager that you could not if the garage is at all loose and breathing. I remember not so long ago you could approach the city of Boston from the north in August and see a huge brownish cloud hanging there downtown. When you got there it smelled discusting and it burned your eyes. Today you don't see that. The cars and trucks are cleaned up that much. You may see a humid summer haze but that brown cloud is gone.

All that said, long ago I stated to co workers that we are long overdue for the reciprocating internal combustion engine to go away. When something truely viable comes along as that replacement I hope it runs and stops the car as well because I think friction brakes are totally rediculous too. Magnetic field braking is a dream of mine , I hope it comes along in my lifetime. Magnetic field propultion would be a neat thing, probably questionable if that might happen in my lifetime but neat.. Ships spewing crap all over the world delivering battery parts to some place, then not being able to dispose of the battery efficiently, to me is rediculous. Running power plants to charge electric car batteries that can't get very far down the road and that same powerplant has to charge the battery again, to me is rediculous as well.

So that's my green rant.

On another note, take a look at the VW Diesel Passat and the Mazda 3. Both with stick shifts, they produce good mileage ratings. In fact over seas from the US where  FYI, emission standards are lower than here, the VW Passat has shown nearly 70 MPG. It drives like a gas engine , is clean burning, with the stick it's peppy and just fun to drive. The Jetta is good too but less mileage for some reason. There are  7+ billion people in the world and a few thousand buying electric cars. I'm telling you it has not evolved yet. I wouldn't even consider buying one unless they were viable and the masses thought so as well.

[iansinclair]

No surprise -- all of hfm's points are excellent.  And, for what it's worth, I probably won't buy another hybrid.  Not worth it...

But I still say that Buick was the best ride I ever had -- all 401 cubic inches of V8 power, 500 horsepower and 450 ft.lbs torque... dual headers... Carter... and a quarter mile of 109 mph/10.2 seconds on street tires.  No power accessories... no electronics... Wretched excess?  H*** yes, but it sure was fun!

[oxy60]

Thanks for the info! I will check in the area and see what type of electric system works best in that area. Ill see what and where the charging stations are! Im sooo excited.
But yeah, I want to rent because owning one can be too expensive if the batteries fail. Someday I will convert my integra to solar power. It's a perfectly good body and leather interior, simple electronic features. It would be perfect!

Thank you! BTW we didn't keep it the full 24 hours because we couldn't find a place to plug it in. Ours came from Enterprise.

[hfmadopter]

No surprise -- all of hfm's points are excellent.  And, for what it's worth, I probably won't buy another hybrid.  Not worth it...

But I still say that Buick was the best ride I ever had -- all 401 cubic inches of V8 power, 500 horsepower and 450 ft.lbs torque... dual headers... Carter... and a quarter mile of 109 mph/10.2 seconds on street tires.  No power accessories... no electronics... Wretched excess?  H*** yes, but it sure was fun!

Ian, at 10.2 your MPH were off. It was probably the weight of the Buick and no slicks for the launch. Were you revving full RPM before the finish line and cruising through the traps ?  If you were still making RPM through the traps then you needed a gear change and might have tipped into the 9's That was good HP for a Buick engine, the torque is no surprise but I would think 10.20 at 118 -120MPH.

I ran a 390 Mustang ( 1967 GT fastback), basically a Stock/Superstock cross, so I ended up in brackets because it wasn't a good fit for either class. 4 speed stick, 620 lift cam, radiused chambers to unshroud the valves, stock porting. 427 lb of torque, 425 HP. It ran 12.2 @ 111 MPH and needed the gear change I spoke of because after the speed trap it was still making RPM and MPH ( you want ideally to be maxed out before the first speed sensor at the track and cruise through almost if not already on the rev limiter. I'd guess 11.85-11.90 et with the gear and tire change. But it didn't matter, faster cars couldn't get me on the track because the launch with the Ford Top Loader and 4.56 gear was so ridiculous. Open headers, 800 double pump with 90 some odd front jets and over 100's in the secondaries. It left the lights at 6000 RPM with the left front wheel lifted off the ground. If I cut a good light they weren't getting me. I blew off a Camaro in time trials with the combo before this one actually, the whole crew came down to my car and stated that it must be a 427, I said no it's a 390. They said ya right and walked away disgusted. 3250 lb car FWIW. Big Blocks rules, if even a lowly FE Ford big Block !! I'd love to build one again just for nostalgia. Today they have the heads and rods I  didn't have access to back then. It would make almost 600 HP today from the same block if I had one, and run on Premium pump gas instead of 115 octane Cam II racing gas.

Just watch some Stock Eliminator You tube videos sometime, they still run our cars we were into! Superstock too.

[iansinclair]

Sounds like you had a beauty, too, hfm!  They surely were fun... in answer to the gearing -- she wasn't geared right; I still had quite a bit of rpm left at the traps.  At least she had a Detroit Locker diff instead of posi-traction, though.  Although that made her a bit of a handful on a slippery road, say in the rain...  A lot of her good launch was that as a convertible she was a bit heavier than the coupes -- the frame was reinforced (came that way, stock).

And they are a blast to watch -- or drive!  Those were the days...

[hfmadopter]

Sounds like you had a beauty, too, hfm!  They surely were fun... in answer to the gearing -- she wasn't geared right; I still had quite a bit of rpm left at the traps.  At least she had a Detroit Locker diff instead of posi-traction, though.  Although that made her a bit of a handful on a slippery road, say in the rain...  A lot of her good launch was that as a convertible she was a bit heavier than the coupes -- the frame was reinforced (came that way, stock).

And they are a blast to watch -- or drive!  Those were the days...

That's for sure !

I had a locker right up until the run I made and it either unlocked or one wheel got loose. What ever happened I slammed 3rd gear and headed for the guard rail, let off and drove out of it. Then I snapped an axle at the starting line on a final elimination race. Late in the day, it was dark, two cars left in the pack, me a guy in a small block powered Pinto. I did the usual third gear burn out. Then a dry hop, the car twisted left. I thought oh oh and let the clutch up easy, sure enough one wheel power. Got it on the trailer to go home, took out the locker, put in a posi unit and 31 spline axles. Never had another problem. I went from 11" Hoosier slicks to 9" M+H with a Superstock compound  and the 4.56 gear, perfect combo till that 605 lift cam went in ( I said 620 earlier that was incorrect), then it wanted more gear. Instead I got out of racing and that's when I took up piano. A couple of years later I sold everything. Stupid, that car today draws big bucks. But hey hind site is 20/20 and I had more fun with that car than I could possibly have had trying to store it all these years..

[chopin2015]

Guys, I dont want a new car...if anything, I want to make my current car work for the remainder of my life. And i don't want other people buying new cars either....we need to improve on what we have right now.

Also, trucking trash such as plastic bottles alone takes thousands of gallons of petrol. So it's not just cars. It's life! I hate semi trucks and airplanes! They should suck my green, natural a**. I can't even eat because I am trying to avoid preservatives and hormones, I lost 17 lbs this month...i am 5 ft 5 and at 120 pounds now(i feel sick and look weak) nothing to eat! So don't worry, i aint fixin to buy a 500 pound battery that I can't make meself out of rawhide...lol i'm moving to Kingsville and won't have to drive much as opposed to walking.

[lloyd_cdb]

If it helps to balance you out, I haven't owned a car in almost 10 years.

[chopin2015]

If it helps to balance you out, I haven't owned a car in almost 10 years.

Nice! I had to drive to school 45 miles one way twice a week. It pissed me off so much!

[hfmadopter]

Nice! I had to drive to school 45 miles one way twice a week. It pissed me off so much!

You shouldn't let the green movement get under your skin so badly. I'm all for breathing clean air but if it weren't for the fact that "green" basically has turned itself into it's own great big huge business complete with scare tactics and working on peoples emotions, then maybe I could take it more seriously. Whole bunches of promotion against petroleum to what end I wonder ? You get a big player in Oxidental Petroleum coming out against Petroleum and you gotta wonder why. He isn't doing it to shoot himself in the foot.

So get a hold of yourself, making yourself sick over other peoples dream environmental movement is rediculous. You have to eat. I'm not a huge fan of big trucks ( love airplanes though) because I'm sick of being around them in my industry that I work in but I'm here to tell you that they burn cleaner than ever and they move masses of food stuff at once. Trains are even better at it. Yes the locomotive eats a lot of fuel under way but it moves so much material at once it then becomes insignificant. The bigger the unit the more mass it's moving. Don't look at smaller trucks as better, because they move less and you need more of them. A semi moves 25-30 tons of material and gets only 7 MPG on low sulfer diesel. A small truck moves only 1 ton of material and gets 14-16 MPG but you need 25-30 of those to move what the one semi is moving. Think about it before you starve yourself to death or condemn that big scary truck for that matter ! It used to be back in the 1300's people grew their own food, killed their own pigs to eat. Grew chickens and stuff like that, wonderful . No trucks around, the world population was 350 million. Today 7 billion people all have to eat and we aren't delivering enough for that number around the world with horse drawn stage coaches.

Now you get to your in town desitination to live, great. You can use mass transit, get a bicycle ( I'm a big bicycle fan) and park your car. Just remember that cars are built to be driven, they don't make out well sitting around. Tires dry rot ( tires are a petroleum product incidentally), Gas goes stale, brake rotors rust and braking becomes rough. So I suggest that you use the car now and then if you continue to own it.

Lighten up on green in your life, don't go radical about it, it's going to do the exact thing that you think not being green is going to do to you . KILL YOU, so just run moderately down the middle, you will be fine.

[iansinclair]

Quite so... I agree with all of hfm's comments above.  Evaluating the real overall environmental impact of various options can be very difficult (although not always -- the muscle cars that hfm and I were talking about were not particularly efficient or environmentally sound transportation, however much fun they were and are!).  Further, the most environmentally sound choices in, say, Kingsville, may not be the most environmentally sound choices in, say, New York City.  Or even in rural New England, where I live.  Ideally, it would be possible to evaluate the complete cradle to grave impact of every choice we had to make (and such evaluations can be done, although they are astoundingly complex and don't lend themselves well to sound bites...).  In practice, the best most of us can do is take care of ourselves and our neighbours and our neighbourhood as responsibly as we know how.

But step one is taking care of one's own health!

[chopin2015]

True, for companies to make profit they can sell us a product by targeting vulnerable people with the idea of going greener or doing the right thing or staying healthy through use of these new products. The trick is to stay selective. When i got rid of all the products I use that are not cruelty-free, It was a lifestyle change. You cant just get rid of one shampoo and go buy another one. You will be buying another bottle, which is the wrong thing to do, because you will still be consuming plastic bottles! So yeah, I will admit I bought a 50 dollar lip gloss, but it is expensive because it comes in a metal, heavy case and when you run out, you make your own or buy only the refill for 20 dollars and it comes in a recycleable paper wrapping and you just slap it in that case. Also, many companies are supplying refills as opposed to individual container sales, which is a GOOD START. Rather, find a place that refills your empty containers with stuff you use. (Im a woman and I will need to find a mate someday, so I can't just stop grooming)...as far as petrol products, i am freaking starving trying to avoid foods wrapped in plastic or fast food disposable type wrapping or even at the organic grocery store. Can I bring a jar and fill it up with rice or do I have to use the baggies? I honestly think I might die in a couple weeks because I don't have any way to get food I feel ok with eating because I have already had serious health issues linked to consumption of modified foods, especially meats. I don't want to disgust you with details but let's just say that when I stopped eating modified foods, all hormone issues dissapeared, not to mention migranes and allergy reactions!....I could die because I am want to refuse living a fast, reckless lifestyle...how ironic!

Quite so... I agree with all of hfm's comments above.  Evaluating the real overall environmental impact of various0 options can be very difficult (although not always -- the muscle cars that hfm and I were talking about were not particularly efficient or environmentally sound transportation, however much fun they were and are!).  Further, the most environmentally sound choices in, say, Kingsville, may not be the most environmentally sound choices in, say, New York City..... In practice, the best most of us can do is take care of ourselves and our neighbours and our neighbourhood as responsibly as we know how.

True, take care of yourself and encourage your community to do the right thing based on what works best in your area. This doesnt mean destroying accesibility to education by limiting connection to civilizations. Exploring civilization can limit education, too. Take communism's rule for example, as they determined it necessary to get rid of other powerful, educated people because they were threats to egos and well-being of other civillians. Or take this example from my town, which now transformed my country living to a little dot right next to a busy overpass that was built within past 2 months! What's that in the distance?! Oh! It's 2 giant airplane fuel storage tanks! Looks just like a water tower, BUT IT'S NOT. Next, education funds in the town I am in right now have already been cut, aka no more music classes in grades k-12 in exchange for development of infastructure.

Priorities are all messed up. Even if people's consumption has to be sacrificed for the sake of civilization, there is a medium which people talk about but cannot seem to accomplish!  little towns are different than big towns, so you can't turn a little town to a city without sacrificing integrity, and cant turn a city to a little town without loosing efficiency(for example, profit would be cut down, shortening supply of everything, including education). See? I am agreeing with you.

[iansinclair]

See? I am agreeing with you.

I'm not a bit surprised... I think we might agree on a good many things, if we were in the same place at the same time!

[hfmadopter]

Chopin 2015, my point is don't overdue and don't fully condemn petroleum yet, there still is efficiency in it for now. When the right replacement comes along I'll be glad to stand in line with you to start consuming that product.

The food issue I agree on but there is a reason hormones and steroids are used to grow things. To keep up with demand. Masses have to be fed and items grown rapidly. However a lot of individuals like yourself can not tolerate that and must look for more pure sources. My own daughters have similar problems with beef and all three also have wheat allergies, two severely so. The worse of those two goes catatonic with very little wheat introduction. She has to be very careful and has scared us half to death more than once with week long hospital stays, delivered there by ambulance.

Bottles may surprise you. Here in New England there is huge demand for used bottles. One thing my company does is produce bottles, clear bottles made 30% from vegetable waste and whole lots of used bottles in the mix. Not to mention many other products that require plastic that you may not even think about, the companies of which are buying used bottles ( like law enforcement bullet proof vests for instance). This is one place where something government mandated has found a way to work out. They, the people I work for not only recycle but look to get more used bottles or at least have big battles about acquiring their own back again because other people want them as well to supply their industry. I can't say it's like that in your area but I can only speak about close to home here. What kills me is we have a deposit around here and people still throw the used bottles in the trash. Don't blame the bottle or the system on that, blame the people who can't be bothered to recycle and get their deposit back. We have a very clear bottle policy around here at least. But you know what, the same can be said for glass and cans !  All returnable here and get your deposit back. Yet beer cans or bottles land on my front lawn any given night. I have a banking out front of my house, somehow people think that to be a good spot to throw the bottles out on the way by. So my wife gets the deposit back ( maybe a couple of cans or bottles a week land out there) !

So many things are being addressed these days, don't just pull a cloak over everything under the assumption that it is not green. It may be more green than you realize, there may be way more effort and money spent to be green that is afoot, really look into things as Ian has pointed out.

I don't enjoy hearing someone is as distraught as you obviously are over this stuff, when I know there is another side to the story. Ian and I both come from a time when this was not so, when rivers were polluted that now bear fish. When you didn't want to walk down a city street from the car exhaust burning your eyes and irritating your throat and that is so much less likely to be the case now. I can go on and on, society has cleaned up so much that the younger crowd never experienced.  Not always fixed 100%, I'll grant that but maybe more often and to a higher degree than someone sick over this stuff realizes..

I can't help with the fast food containers, I know nothing about that except that we dispose of ours properly if we ever get  that stuff ( rare)...

[hfmadopter]

In one of my replies I mentioned that I am a real fan of bicycles. I do own two, a road bike and a cross style bike or so called hybrid with cross blood, sort to speak.

What I did not mention and maybe some people would like to know about this if they don't already. There is something worth while going on in the US. I'm not generally a fan of government in our faces etc. etc. but under the transportation act, one thing that has happened in the US is abandoned railroad right of way is being reworked through a federal program and made into trails for bike riding and also walking. Many of these are rural and scenic but just as many become beautiful commuter routes that people use on foot or by bike. I ride one of those trails right here not very far from my house. Often this bill comes under attack to be cut. I don't think of all the transportation bill that this section within it is a good idea to have cut. More people want to walk safely these days, want to ride safely without worry of being mowed down by cars on busy streets.

With all that being said, there is of course an action group who lobbys to keep this in place. The name is Rails To Trails Conservancy. I belong to this group. There literally are thousands of miles of trails created now in the US on unused railroad lines, largely directly related to this group seeking the funds from government out of that transportation bill and it is not huge dollars like most things government are, because the right of way is already cut.. What better use could there be short of running the trains again perhaps ? But the right of way is not lost just unused, if needed it's still rail right of way. It's a win win and really beautiful to ride or walk on one of these gems. Some are old name right of way too from the golden era of railroading in the USA.

I have found this group to be worth belonging to and I don't belong to anything else like that ! Just thought I would mention it. There is no cost to join and lot's of opportunity to voice opinion with Congressmen, Senators or other people of influence who are in direct line for a vote, by direct links sent to you by email. Always your own choice to use the link or not.
David

[oxy60]

Rail to Trails is a top flight group with a focused purpose. Thank you for your voice and support.

Too often groups like this get diverted into other areas and thereby just become a lobbying group for "just say no" causes.

Stay focused. You've done a world of good already.

[hfmadopter]

Rail to Trails is a top flight group with a focused purpose. Thank you for your voice and support.

Too often groups like this get diverted into other areas and thereby just become a lobbying group for "just say no" causes.

Stay focused. You've done a world of good already.

Yes sir, though I'm just one voice in a group of several thousand people, I feel it's a good cause or believe me I would never have joined with them! 

[thalbergmad]

I don't like electric cars. They simply don't make the sexy noise of a petrol engine.

Thal

[chopin2015]

I don't like electric cars. They simply don't make the sexy noise of a petrol engine.

Thal

Oooh, well as much as that may be somewhat true, it still has all the sexy looks!

https://www.fiskerautomotive.com/

[thalbergmad]

Looks are nothing without noise. A car like that filled up with batteries is a crime.

If my Audi was electric, I would never have bought the thing, beautiful as it is.

Thal

[oxy60]

Yes sir, though I'm just one voice in a group of several thousand people, I feel it's a good cause or believe me I would never have joined with them! 

We very behind in building bike paths. The importance of your group is bringing these issues out.

[iansinclair]

Oooh, well as much as that may be somewhat true, it still has all the sexy looks!

https://www.fiskerautomotive.com/

True enough... as far as looks go.  But they sound like trolleys (except the bell)!  So I'll go with Thal.  There's nothing quite like a nice big V8 at full song (gotta confess, though -- I never really did like the sound of the very high revving smaller European style engines; guess that's what comes of growing up in the '50s in the USA!).

[hfmadopter]

We very behind in building bike paths. The importance of your group is bringing these issues out.

Most amazing to me locally is on one road headed in and out of town they put in a new bike lane. I couldn't believe my eyes. And it's used, it's really the last thing I expected to see in this town, though the road is actually a state road. The problem is when it gets into town the lane goes away as the roads are fairly narrow and have curbs coming into town. In that section I'd call it out right dangerous to ride a bike but it's only half mile long section. It's a winding S turn section of road, good place to get mowed down with today's strain of drivers and cell phones etc...

We have officially four trails locally but more towns are doing the biking lane thing than in the past.. Two official trails are defunct railroad lines. One is National Forrest, they threw out the motorcyclists on dirt bikes and put in the path for bicycles and walking folks. The motorcyclists had made themselves unwanted by running ramp id all through the forest ( I don't understand how they ever thought they would last out there, originally opened to them but then they went riding everywhere through the forest, nuts). The trails lead past small ponds that have trout in them, only canoes or paddle craft are allowed on the ponds. It's very peaceful out there without the screaming motorcycles. And then we have the Army Corp of Engineers access road that is open to biking, walkers and fishermen on both sides of our canal here.

As you said, we are late to the game but it's catching on all over our country. It will be  nice when there are more connecting links or I should say better connected linkups, perhaps.

[thalbergmad]

There's nothing quite like a nice big V8 at full song (gotta confess, though -- I never really did like the sound of the very high revving smaller European style engines;

Don't get many V8's in England. Gas is around $11 a gallon, so it would not be very efficient.

We tend to get our power from smaller but turbocharged or supercharged engines. Whether this is actually more efficient, I do not know, but on a recent 100 mile trip, I got 32mpg out of my Audi S3 driving very carefully.

Thal

[chopin2015]

Don't get many V8's in England. Gas is around $11 a gallon, so it would not be very efficient.

We tend to get our power from smaller but turbocharged or supercharged engines. Whether this is actually more efficient, I do not know, but on a recent 100 mile trip, I got 32mpg out of my Audi S3 driving very carefully.

Thal

Well raise my rent!....

[iansinclair]

Don't get many V8's in England. Gas is around $11 a gallon, so it would not be very efficient.

We tend to get our power from smaller but turbocharged or supercharged engines. Whether this is actually more efficient, I do not know, but on a recent 100 mile trip, I got 32mpg out of my Audi S3 driving very carefully.

Thal

Honestly, although it may sound odd for me to say so, I think that we -- dear old USA (and Canada) -- would be in much better shape in terms of transportation if the gas tax were high enough to get our gas and diesel up in that range -- provided that the tax used to do so went to transportation purposes, and not to line the pockets of either highway builders or politicians...

And that gas mileage thing is why, although I do own a truck with a big V8 for the farm I live and work on, my usual ride is a hybrid Honda Civic... I try to do what I can!

[thalbergmad]

provided that the tax used to do so went to transportation purposes, and not to line the pockets of either highway builders or politicians...

Over here, it is not. Billions are raised in petrol duty, but our roads are in general heavily congested and in dreadful condition. A bad winter has left us with thousands of pot holes.

I can easily get to work quicker on my road bike and only use my car when I go on holiday.

Thal

[oxy60]

Don't get many V8's in England. Gas is around $11 a gallon, so it would not be very efficient.

We tend to get our power from smaller but turbocharged or supercharged engines. Whether this is actually more efficient, I do not know, but on a recent 100 mile trip, I got 32mpg out of my Audi S3 driving very carefully.

Thal

32 mpg! Excellent! To be sure we are both on the same page, are your gallons in the UK the same size as the US, 3.7857 liters?

[iansinclair]

32 mpg! Excellent! To be sure we are both on the same page, are your gallons in the UK the same size as the US, 3.7857 liters?

Imperial gallon is a bit bigger -- more like 4 liters, I seem to recall.  Not that much... I'd have to look it up, and it's late.

[chopin2015]

Honestly, although it may sound odd for me to say so, I think that we -- dear old USA (and Canada) -- would be in much better shape in terms of transportation if the gas tax were high enough to get our gas and diesel up in that range -- provided that the tax used to do so went to transportation purposes, and not to line the pockets of either highway builders or politicians...

And that gas mileage thing is why, although I do own a truck with a big V8 for the farm I live and work on, my usual ride is a hybrid Honda Civic... I try to do what I can!

I'd rather have an efficient motorcycle, but that is not very safe, considering everyone wants to run me off the road already, in a little integra. In Texas, it seems everyone owns a truck. It is out of control! I understand using a tduck for agricultural, farming and ranching purposes. But putting a tax on gas znd diesel is a partial solution that does not work everywhere....

[thalbergmad]

32 mpg! Excellent! To be sure we are both on the same page, are your gallons in the UK the same size as the US, 3.7857 liters?

4.54 over here old chap

[hfmadopter]

I'd rather have an efficient motorcycle, but that is not very safe, considering everyone wants to run me off the road already, in a little integra. In Texas, it seems everyone owns a truck. It is out of control! I understand using a tduck for agricultural, farming and ranching purposes. But putting a tax on gas znd diesel is a partial solution that does not work everywhere....

I agree, government is far to corrupt to trust them with the money and a lot of the cost of gas already is tax.

Motorcycles are like gas efficient hot rods. Even a dresser goes pretty good and is at least respectable on gas. My Stepson rides an older Honda Goldwing. It gets just under 40MPG and turns mid 11 seconds in the 1/4 mile but gives a cushy ride. Something in a 750 CC range will get more like 50-55MPG US. Some 350s and 450 get close to 60 MPG along with scooters. I'm with you on the danger aspect though, all you need is car to bump your handlebar and your body gets turned into a train wreck.. When riding motorcycles you have to be extra extra aware of what's going on around you.

A friend of mine who actually used to pit crew for me when I was drag racing the Mustang I spoke of earlier in the thread was killed in a motorcycle crash. Telephone pole cleaned him off the bike, dead right then and there. We have an ice cream shop diagonally across the street from us, busy traffic there. Two motorcycles were coming up the road, the second one decided to pass the first one but the first one decided to turn into the ice cream shop. Well the first one went down, guy and girl kind of bloody, fiberglass all over the road. Looked like the girl had a broken arm. But the second one that was passing ran through the pedestrian sign that is out here. It sounded like a Chinese Gong going off. The ambulance crew was not tending to that guy at all, he was laying there totally motionless. We found out later that he died but the news report didn't say that it was at the scene. I assume so. I saw a guy go down on a BMW motorcycle when I was a kid doing my paper route, a dog ran out biting at his tires ( the same dog would do the same thing to me on my bicycle). Fortunately he had just started to go off on the bike so no substantial speed involved but he lost control and slid down the road non the less. The dog was missing clumps of fur and limping.

I admire motorcycles for what they are but I really don't think today's society here in the US can handle them on our roads. Buy the Mazda 3 with stick shift and get 40+ MPG US highway, is my suggestion. It's a decent car has a little size and some metal to it. Sporty, nice handling for it's class and fun to drive with the stick shift in it.

[oxy60]

4.54 over here old chap

Imperial to US gals is 5:6

Now I must slightly modify my compliments about your MPG. While you did well it seems that Audi should do better. However that is a beautiful car and especially suited for longer trips.

[chopin2015]

I agree, government is far to corrupt to trust them with the money and a lot of the cost of gas already is tax.

Motorcycles are like gas efficient hot rods. Even a dresser goes pretty good and is at least respectable on gas. My Stepson rides an older Honda Goldwing. It gets just under 40MPG and turns mid 11 seconds in the 1/4 mile but gives a cushy ride. Something in a 750 CC range will get more like 50-55MPG US. Some 350s and 450 get close to 60 MPG along with scooters. I'm with you on the danger aspect though, all you need is car to bump your handlebar and your body gets turned into a train wreck.. When riding motorcycles you have to be extra extra aware of what's going on around you.

A friend of mine who actually used to pit crew for me when I was drag racing the Mustang I spoke of earlier in the thread was killed in a motorcycle crash. Telephone pole cleaned him off the bike, dead right then and there. We have an ice cream shop diagonally across the street from us, busy traffic there. Two motorcycles were coming up the road, the second one decided to pass the first one but the first one decided to turn into the ice cream shop. Well the first one went down, guy and girl kind of bloody, fiberglass all over the road. Looked like the girl had a broken arm. But the second one that was passing ran through the pedestrian sign that is out here. It sounded like a Chinese Gong going off. The ambulance crew was not tending to that guy at all, he was laying there totally motionless. We found out later that he died but the news report didn't say that it was at the scene. I assume so. I saw a guy go down on a BMW motorcycle when I was a kid doing my paper route, a dog ran out biting at his tires ( the same dog would do the same thing to me on my bicycle). Fortunately he had just started to go off on the bike so no substantial speed involved but he lost control and slid down the road non the less. The dog was missing clumps of fur and limping.

I admire motorcycles for what they are but I really don't think today's society here in the US can handle them on our roads. Buy the Mazda 3 with stick shift and get 40+ MPG US highway, is my suggestion. It's a decent car has a little size and some metal to it. Sporty, nice handling for it's class and fun to drive with the stick shift in it.

And I mean, especially the electric vehicles I am trying to push because they get even less travel power in traffic. With the number of trucks and semis on the road, it really blocks a lot of traffic having so many around given that trucks and bigger vehicles take longer to accelerate and stop. In areas where the speed limit is now 70 mph, they are extremely unsuitable! Especially if they don't stay out of the passing lane aka left lane. The other day, this douche was going 60 in a 70. everybody knows you can go up to 75 mph and not get a ticket if the speed limit is 70. And so was the truck in the right lane and neither of them could see me. Then he started breaking as soon as I got close to him because he was approaching 200ft before the stop light! and everyone behind me was tailgating, fixing to run me off the road and almost crashed into me. It was a big, stupid, loud situation. 

[hfmadopter]

Then he started breaking as soon as I got close to him because he was approaching 200ft before the stop light! and everyone behind me was tailgating, fixing to run me off the road and almost crashed into me. It was a big, stupid, loud situation. 

I see. Well for sure 3 vehicles can not be in the exact same place at the same time, makes a huge mess and a small car even smaller. So my advice is to just stay calm and make space. Go around when the time is right.

 Ya know most trips are around town or short commutes of 20 miles or less. If a person goes 70 MPH on a 100 mile trip and another 65 and the 70 MPH guy makes a stop for gas and water him/ her self the 65 MPH one will get there first, assuming no stop. There is only about 5-6 minutes difference in travel time at those speeds to go 100 miles. Around town the difference is if you catch a red light or not.. So you might get someplace 1 minute sooner by being in a rush and all worked up. The stress isn't worth a minute or two to me. Still, it is nice when the road is all your own, I understand . on our trips to Maine towing a boat I set the cruise at 68 MPH, we go 68 MPH uphill and 68 MPH down hill all the way up from the other side of Boston on. I watch these people hang off my rear end and suddenly go about 80 or 85 around me and then half mile up the road get off at that exit. As we pass by the exit they are going down the ramp. If they just stayed behind me they wouldn't waste gas, wouldn't be grinding on the brakes, wouldn't be tense or in a panic and have gone down the ramp as we passed by. Same result.

Think about it.

[iansinclair]

For sure.  Similarly, I go to Montreal from northwest CT from time to time to see my son.  We take the Northway (I 87) and once one gets north of Saratoga there just isn't much traffic.  Set the cruise at 68 and relax and roll.  Until, of course, one gets to Customs... sigh...  Still, it's a two and a half hour trip at 68, and to cut any useful amount of time off (say 15 minutes -- anything less than that isn't useful on a trip like that) one would have to be really flying.  Which might be fun, but would be stressful -- and attract the attention of the forces of the Law, which is never a good thing.

And around town here it's amazing how much gas and stress one can save without wasting any time at all by easing up and timing one's arrival at a stop light for when it is green... rather than flying up to it and slamming on the brakes!

[oxy60]

For sure.  Similarly, I go to Montreal from northwest CT from time to time to see my son.  We take the Northway (I 87) and once one gets north of Saratoga there just isn't much traffic.  Set the cruise at 68 and relax and roll.  Until, of course, one gets to Customs... sigh...  Still, it's a two and a half hour trip at 68, and to cut any useful amount of time off (say 15 minutes -- anything less than that isn't useful on a trip like that) one would have to be really flying.  Which might be fun, but would be stressful -- and attract the attention of the forces of the Law, which is never a good thing.

And around town here it's amazing how much gas and stress one can save without wasting any time at all by easing up and timing one's arrival at a stop light for when it is green... rather than flying up to it and slamming on the brakes!

No matter how quickly you travel, southbound US Customs will soak up any gain. How about those questions? And have you heard the phony Canadian accent some of the officers put on? My last crossing took 45 minutes and that was just primary! If they jam you in secondary it'll be more than two hours (according to a friend).