Help me read my piano teachers mind

[musiqientist]

  Hello Piano Street! This is my first post but I have been doing a lot of browsing on the forums, particularly in the teaching forum and think it's safe to post my thoughts on this site so I'll probably be around from time to time. I'm a piano student, 17 years old. Nice to meet you! ^^
*bows*

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So the concern I have at the moment us that I feel very distant from my piano teacher as my interaction with her is very important to me as somebody who started late on the piano but absolutely loves it and will inevitably study it sometime in the not so distant future.

I feel nervous to play in front of her and never able to play nearly as good as when I'm at home. The difference is really significant; I'm just afraid to play in front of her and very scared of making small changes to the music for the first time in front of her. Like if she tells me to add a trill, I'll want to do it at home first multiple times on my own before showing her, it feel scary to do otherwise somehow. I'm afraid to make that kind of mistake in front of her because it shows incompetency and her personality is quite elitist. This all feels foreign to me because these kinds of things would never have been a problem for me just a couple years ago.

I care very much for the piano and I am not sure if she knows or cares, her response shows mixed opinions and I'm not sure what she actually thinks of me. I wonder if she knows that I am doing my best to progress very fast and I would never mention such a thing to her but I think I'm doing well! At the moment I've been playing for about a year solid and am currently working on a Mozart Concerto, 2 grade 9 solos, 2 Chopin etudes, and an easier piece by Bach. I love these pieces I'm playing and I think that they are... hard! I have no problem with this but she doesn't take that into consideration period. I'm not sure but I think she might think I have too much ego, that's not how I feel about myself however.

I care very much for the piano and I am not sure if she knows or cares, her responses show mixed opinions and the logic doesn't add up. She seems to be good at reading me though which is somewhat disturbing, seeing as how I am purposefully difficult to read. This is all really depressing for me because music is always on mind and I am extremely interesting and always thirsty to learn more. I can research and learn about classical music history all day, I can listen all day, play all day. Most of the time I'd describe her as stoic, unyielding, and criticizing. I want to get really good and I know that's difficult, so I need to know whether or not that's possible. I want to know what my potential is. Wish she was warmer and more approachable, I'm jealous of the idea that somebody has a more mentoring figure as a teacher. What's more frustrating is that on the outside she is really hospitable and motherly but I know that is you were to approach her directly with an issue she would instantly put on another face. I feel that if she is doing this on purpose that it's all really unnecessary because I'm not a 10 year old being forced to take lessons. I wonder why she does what she does; in the end I'm afraid to tell her my thoughts.

Anyways, in case somebody was going to suggest that I find somebody else I'll go ahead and say that I cannot leave this teacher. I want things to get better with her because I know that if they do, it will be worth it! She inspires my very much. She has a PH.D from Juilliard; she is an authentic musician who had a musical family. She was a prodigy and started at age 2 and has perfect pitch, she can instantly memorize any piece of music and play it by ear. I always feel like I very much want to impress her.

So, I hope I get some replies on your thoughts and what anybody thinks I should do. Any advice is appreciated. I think the writing in this post might be to general and confusing, I was going to make a longer and more concise post but I couldn't wait any longer, these things have been on my mind for a while. I have a lot of other posts to make so you might see some things later on that are related to this. If you PM me, I'll have more specific things to say on the matter and can answer questions. That would be appreciated; I don't want to list specifics in case she sees this.

Thanks for reading. I hope this post isn't offensive, I feel like a whiner.

[bernadette60614]

And, hello to you...equally deep bow.

If you look for my posts (and there are way too many) you'll see that the majority are about what you describe...a teacher who is intimidating to me and who seems to be constantly criticizing me.

I tried to "break up" with her and at what I thought would be my final lesson she told me that I was one of the 4 or 5 students of her 50 who actually cared about the piano. I also learned from the Director of the program that she (my teacher) was so pleased by my progress that she thanks the Director for assigning me to her.

Unless everyone is blowing smoke up my a*s..(which is ample and hard to miss), I took away from this:  If you care, you are going to be nervous. If she cares, she is going to be critical..because she feels you are capable of learning more and caring enough to work hard to achieve more.

[j_menz]

Are you treating her as a teacher, from whom you learn things, or as an audience who you are trying to impress.

If the former, then it is your weaknesses and failings that you should be showing her.

If the latter, you're wasting your money.

[quantum]

If you want things to get better, you will need to accept that change needs to happen.  Part of that change will come from you.  With change also may come doubt, uncertainty, loss of a sense of custom, questions.  Not at all bad things if they are put in the context of growth.  

Do you consider yourself to be a sensitive person?  In general, do you deal well with criticism?

What is puzzling to me is that many of the arguments you make suggest a degree of incompatibility between student and teacher.  Yet you are very ardently insistent on continuing on with this teacher.  Are you in any way related to this teacher?

Learning involves an element of vulnerability.  The more vulnerable you avail yourself to your teacher, the more willing you are to express your weaknesses, the more you will be able to benefit from the teaching.  If you feel an inadequacy in playing something your teacher asks of you, you need to bring that into the open not sweep it under the rug.  Your teacher can help you better if you openly admit to that inadequacy and nervousness in playing.  A good teacher will not shame or belittle you for doing so, but show you how to overcome your inadequacy.  

You don't go to lessons just to have your teacher constantly say you are doing a great job without need for further comment.  You go to lessons to learn.  You may learn things that seem foreign, things that make you feel uncomfortable, and things that you absolutely disagree with, and you may also have "light bulb" moments when your teacher says something and the puzzle comes together all at once.  You go to lessons to learn.  You are not under any obligation to agree with everything your teacher says, or do everything your teacher asks of you, but you must take it all into thought.  

[virtuoso80]

 

I feel nervous to play in front of her and never able to play nearly as good as when I'm at home. The difference is really significant; I'm just afraid to play in front of her and very scared of making small changes to the music for the first time in front of her. ...

Boy, if I had a nickel for every student who's said that to me, and every time I've felt it in front of my teacher!

In all seriousness, though, I think you need a new teacher.

I'm was always sensitive to criticism, and I always want to impress. I recognize some of myself in you. What worked for me is finding the right teacher who put me at ease, took the pressure away, and made me feel like we were working 'on the same side'. It's also true that my time in the classical-training grinder desensitized me to criticism somewhat, but I'm not a fan of that approach. When I finally found a teacher who didn't put me ill-at-ease, I got better FASTER, not slower.

The world is FULL of self-taught musicians who rejected teachers because they hated how it made them feel. I'm was one of them for a long time. Thing is, in the classical world it's nearly impossible to know what to do without feedback. I see that you have the desire, so a decent teacher (not just player, but teacher) should be able to help you. Conversely, I fear that sticking with this regimen may make you hate playing, which IMO is both tragedy and travesty when committed by the music education profession.

So, in short, don't let your natural desire be stifled, and find someone who can help you achieve your goals with joy. This does NOT mean someone who praises everything you do as perfect, but someone who lets you know the deal without grinding it too deep.

[musiqientist]

If you look for my posts (and there are way too many) you'll see that the majority are about what you describe...a teacher who is intimidating to me and who seems to be constantly criticizing me.

Yeah, I think it's a bit different between us though. It's not that open and she doesn't constantly criticize me but there's quite a bit of that and a lack of praise at what I think would make most teachers very happy. I cannot satisfy her, this is all fine with me but I do need to know where I stand. I also think I am intimidating to her as well but that doesn't seem to bother her as much, I wish it did. I often feel that we are playing a mind game but I am not sure. Nothing would suggest so but things spon that are logically inconsistent to what things appear to be. That's what I'm trying to figure out here.

I tried to "break up" with her and at what I thought would be my final lesson she told me that I was one of the 4 or 5 students of her 50 who actually cared about the piano. I also learned from the Director of the program that she (my teacher) was so pleased by my progress that she thanks the Director for assigning me to her.

My piano teacher would never offer up a thing, though when I tell others about my progress they are very surprised. I would ask her if this is hard and she would say no, because she could do it at 9 years old, contrary to such statements however, when I make her happy she says "good (my name) and then cuts it off before she finishes and says "finally" instead. Then she starts getting energized and very pushy, beyond my limts. When I say I can't do something as in, we'll never be able to get it up to tempo, she simply says "you have to" and forces me to play.  When I already have a lot she says "We need something else." And I say that I was thinking of doing this etude and then she says "I wanna see it." Then I tell her I haven't practiced it and don't like sight reading in front of people and she makes me play it anyways, then she says "your suppose to practice it" when she never assigned it to begin with. I tell her 5 pieces at once is a lot and she says "your lucky" than I say, "I'm not a concert pianist!" and she said "I'm training you to be an excellent student."

I know now you'd think that the answer to this thread is all clear but, this is a really good event that occurred in a lesson, sometimes things don't appear this way at all. Her mood seems to fluctuate with it too but I'm not sure it's her mood because that doesn't make sense either.
I tried to break up with her once because my parents were causing me stress and I told her that if I quit for just 2 months can she take me back and she said. "Sorry can't play games with you. No won't take you back. sorry you have issues whatever they are..." Goodbye (my name) ...  I answered her back saying I'm not playing games and that I was serious and if I could come the following week, she said "Well I hope so." Then I asked her if I'd done anything wrong and she said "Em, I love you very much and want you to be happy." When I saw her that week and asked her about she said because she'll fill my spot and to let me know if I wanna quit. It was so cold but...it doesn't add up. She just changed my lesson time to an hour and can't I be put back on the waiting list? If she was playing a trick it would be an easy one to do because it's obvious in the first e-mail that I won't quit if I can't come back. She also tricked me once saying she was gonna move so she's capable of it. Her schedule seems very flexible and don't students go on vacation? 2 months? She won't get another student?? There were also other things that were logically inconsistent with this but I can't remember...there are too many things and I see her every week.

Unless everyone is blowing smoke up my a*s..(which is ample and hard to miss), I took away from this:  If you care, you are going to be nervous. If she cares, she is going to be critical..because she feels you are capable of learning more and caring enough to work hard to achieve more.

I am nervous and I don’t know if she can sense it. But she is the type that would think you should be. I don’t like how part of this is because her other students aren’t serious at all, though it only bothers me because she should know it’s not like that with me. She shows mixed signals once again, of knowing and not knowing this…  I have listed specific examples above and really would prefer not to as the above is quite obviously us but it doesn’t look like the thread will go anywhere if I don’t which is why I like PM. )))))) Nobody has done it yet. I have 10 pages of things I've remembered up that hold value.

[musiqientist]

What is puzzling to me is that many of the arguments you make suggest a degree of incompatibility between student and teacher.  Yet you are very ardently insistent on continuing on with this teacher.  Are you in any way related to this teacher?

She has been teaching since she was 11, she is a renowned professor at has been on the faculty for nearly all the Universities in my region, she has also been the principal pianist for most of the local orchestras. Everybody knows her as a teacher and would say that you are ultimately blessed to have such a teacher, she is one with the caliber that has the ability to help you enter one of the best conservatories, there’s nothing she cannot teach you. She seems to be the type of teacher that most successful classical musician had, I think my first post was too emotional and gave off the wrong idea. I really adore her. I think she might be trying to teach me humility now because she’s under the false impressions that I need it. == She might think all people need it and perhaps even she did when she was young but doesn’t recognize that I am in the minority. She is a go getter, if something stands in her way she pushes harder, that’s the way she is. She doesn’t soften. I’m scared to give her info. I feel she might get invasive but…shouldn’t I let that occur??? I don’t know….
I think the incompatibility is mainly my problem and a misunderstanding. She is a sweet person on the inside and very charming, just quite self-preservative I think.  I can’t think of a specific personality that would do better than what I have now, it’s not anything that..concrete. I’m excited to see her every week. I count down the days until it’s time for our lesson, I want it to come but also dread it because after it’s over I have another week to wait.  
I think she may just be expecting me to take the mixed signs that she gives me to be positives and demands for improvement like a machine. She doesn’t mind that I’m blind… I think she might be thinking "just listen to me and be grateful for anything that apparently sounds like a good thing." Either I let it all into the  open or it stays this way… ehhh is anybody still following me?

Learning involves an element of vulnerability.  The more vulnerable you avail yourself to your teacher, the more willing you are to express your weaknesses, the more you will be able to benefit from the teaching.

There’s just something about her though… It’s so mushy if I let her in like that. Yet, I want the challenge of managing to stand up to her so I don’t want to switch because I know staying with her will end up being more rewarding. I sometimes think I admire her for not getting drawn in.
 

If you feel an inadequacy in playing something your teacher asks of you, you need to bring that into the open not sweep it under the rug.  Your teacher can help you better if you openly admit to that inadequacy and nervousness in playing.  A good teacher will not shame or belittle you for doing so, but show you how to overcome your inadequacy.

That will reveal my secrets, I’m not willing to do that yet somehow, I think for fear that I cannot become a great pianist and incorporate it in my career. I feel like….she did all these great things and made it, but I’m not even close. So why would it happen for me? She speaks a lot of achievements and is elitist as I said. I’m already in a sensitive spot and just the idea that she won’t be gentle is really scary. Sometimes she is when I’ve done really well but I’m not sure how harsh she’ll get if I let her know. I mean she’s already so… but the again that’s only sometimes.

You don't go to lessons just to have your teacher constantly say you are doing a great job without need for further comment.  You go to lessons to learn.  You may learn things that seem foreign, things that make you feel uncomfortable, and things that you absolutely disagree with, and you may also have "light bulb" moments when your teacher says something and the puzzle comes together all at once.  You go to lessons to learn.  You are not under any obligation to agree with everything your teacher says, or do everything your teacher asks of you, but you must take it all into thought.

I have all those moments of course but I would never have any problem doing anything she told me to do deep down anyways. Although sometimes I ask a question and she tells me not to argue, though on occasion I stump her with a new idea and get her to smile at me. Then she peeks looks at me for the rest of the lesson.

[musiqientist]

Boy, if I had a nickel for every student who's said that to me, and every time I've felt it in front of my teacher!

I never felt this way in front of my previous violin teacher. I was perfectly comfortable. I study violin as well. I am the very conscientious type but when I have prepared something well it’s usually hard for emotions like that to get past my barriers…much less affect me this bad. Things that I have perfected have become shreds in front her before. Surely even an audience….is not that scary?

I'm was always sensitive to criticism, and I always want to impress. I recognize some of myself in you. What worked for me is finding the right teacher who put me at ease, took the pressure away, and made me feel like we were working 'on the same side'.

I want both I feel something would be missing if I had that kind of teacher, a bit too casual somehow. If I found a teacher who has been through it all like her and acquired the same qualities she has gotten through that experience AND puts you at ease than I might consider. It’s very unlikely. She also happens to be 10 minutes away from my house.

It's also true that my time in the classical-training grinder desensitized me to criticism somewhat, but I'm not a fan of that approach. When I finally found a teacher who didn't put me ill-at-ease, I got better FASTER, not slower.

She’s not TOO into criticism either! Well…maybe because I don’t let it happen. And it’s just…my progress maximized when I started with her. She’s the type that makes you want to impress her, especially if you’re interested. She’s quite motherly too.

The world is FULL of self-taught musicians who rejected teachers because they hated how it made them feel. I'm was one of them for a long time. Thing is, in the classical world it's nearly impossible to know what to do without feedback. I see that you have the desire, so a decent teacher (not just player, but teacher) should be able to help you. Conversely, I fear that sticking with this regimen may make you hate playing, which IMO is both tragedy and travesty when committed by the music education profession.

So, in short, don't let your natural desire be stifled, and find someone who can help you achieve your goals with joy. This does NOT mean someone who praises everything you do as perfect, but someone who lets you know the deal without grinding it too deep.

I don’t like the feelings I get sometimes, but I think it’s generated from my own discontent and I can’t find the source. (not going to a therapist) She says things that sting sometimes but it’s very clear that I derive happiness from lessons. She’s like my idol!  And she’s a top teacher with a huge studio of University and private students.
I really could never hate playing….maybe bitter sometimes but not give up… I just feel like I have to face everything if I want answers and stuff not just slip away. Ermmm  ok yeah I’m weird, get used to it ok?

[musiqientist]

Are you treating her as a teacher, from whom you learn things, or as an audience who you are trying to impress.

If the former, then it is your weaknesses and failings that you should be showing her.

If the latter, you're wasting your money.

Well I want to get good and tend to use her as a guide to whether or not I will make it. I want to be her star students in a sense because it means I have a chance. So I very much want to impress her but mustn’t you learn a lot and indefinitely everything she has to offer you in order to do that? Through her behavior towards me, it doesn’t appear as if she supports making more mistakes, she wants it to get perfect asap and nailed that way. She gets really serious when you make the same mistake the following week. Don’t you need the pressure to be able to perform perfect in order to succeed? I would think that it’s only beneficial to make a mistake in front of her if it’s a new one that you can’t fix yourself.
Bottom line is, it not her that I am trying to please in the end. She’s not the ultimate goal and a stepping stone, I may as well do it as I do feel close to her anyways.

If only she knew…I think she’d be happy. I guess I just think I’m not worth it.

[j_menz]

When you start showing her a piece, start with "Most of it's going OK, but I'm having trouble with x aspect of this bit, and y aspect of this  other bit. Could we go over those first ..."

You may be surprised at how impressed she is by that.

You don't, particularly at first, have to be anywhere near perfect. But recognising what you can do yourself and what you need her help with will be useful for you both.

[m1469]

Seems like maybe you have a clutch on your teacher.

[musiqientist]

When you start showing her a piece, start with "Most of it's going OK, but I'm having trouble with x aspect of this bit, and y aspect of this  other bit. Could we go over those first ..."

You may be surprised at how impressed she is by that.

You don't, particularly at first, have to be anywhere near perfect. But recognising what you can do yourself and what you need her help with will be useful for you both.

You're right. Yeah, I'm really beginning to think she's playing games and messing with me behind the scenes. ... I just came to a realization that they way I act towards people I respect is not necessarily the way she would act and she cares so much about being professional. I think sometimes I fail to notice the small hints of approval she leaves in the air and when that shows she gets annoyed and tries to squash me because she's stingy about the thing all together. It's just....chopin and more in a year and nothing? I'm so passionate about it and I get all these comments from everyone ... except her?

You reminded me of times when she would do this and she wouldn't praise me or let anything out, just give me the facts. Now, I remember that was a flicker of pride in her eyes and now I recognize that that's probably as much as ill get from her...so long as she has respect for me. Ehhh, all the memories are coming so  fast that I can't even write them down. They mean so much to me. I wish if mad this thread earlier. It's really helping so far, thanks so far everyone!

[musiqientist]

Seems like maybe you have a clutch on your teacher.

Do explain because its a very intriguing possibility, it matches up well with the logic and I'd never thought of it before, I think because I'd never put stock in the idea that I'd be worth that much to anyone.

[m1469]

Do explain because its a very intriguing possibility, it matches up well with the logic and I'd never thought of it before, I think because I'd never put stock in the idea that I'd be worth that much to anyone.

Many moons ago, young lady m1469 stumbled upon a little piano forum dressed in swaddling clothes.  Young lady m1469 asked questions about a teacher she had had in some moons before.  She was eventually given this very answer that you were given.  I assumed at the time that it was somebody's "poor English" way of saying that I had a crush on my teacher.

But, here is what I say to you.  Don't read her mind, listen to her music.

[musiqientist]

Many moons ago, young lady m1469 stumbled upon a little piano forum dressed in swaddling clothes.  Young lady m1469 asked questions about a teacher she had had in some moons before.  She was eventually given this very answer that you were given.  I assumed at the time that it was somebody's "poor English" way of saying that I had a crush on my teacher.

But, here is what I say to you.  Don't read her mind, listen to her music.

Errr, you made it sound differently than that in the previous post. To me it sounded like you were saying I have emotional control over her... Like I said can you explain? I HAVE A CRUSH ON A 65 YEAR OLD WITH THE SAME GENDER AS ME?

[outin]

Errr, you made it sound differently than that in the previous post. To me it sounded like you were saying I have emotional control over her... Like I said can you explain? I HAVE A CRUSH ON A 65 YEAR OLD WITH THE SAME GENDER AS ME?

That can happen...it's not all about sex you know.

I think you may have invested too much emotionally in your relationship with the teacher. Which is completely normal, since piano is important to you and your teacher is a big part of your piano experience. But a teacher is only a teacher, a professional, and some are better than others in the motivational part. Think of it this way: You are spending an awful lot of time thinking about your relationship with your teacher, but she may only think about you once a week on your lesson. We all want to be special to people we admire, but we have to learn to accept that we are often not.

Try to concentrate more on assessing if she is a good teacher for you in terms of your learning the tools to play better and time should take care of the rest.

[musiqientist]

That can happen...it's not all about sex you know.

I think you may have invested too much emotionally in your relationship with the teacher. Which is completely normal, since piano is important to you and your teacher is a big part of your piano experience. But a teacher is only a teacher, a professional, and some are better than others in the motivational part. Think of it this way: You are spending an awful lot of time thinking about your relationship with your teacher, but she may only think about you once a week on your lesson. We all want to be special to people we admire, but we have to learn to accept that we are often not.

Try to concentrate more on assessing if she is a good teacher for you in terms of your learning the tools to play better and time should take care of the rest.

Yeah I know.... I wish that wasn't true though. I wanna learn more go farther and longer forever!!! Yeah I mean, I don't intend to just keep going forever, I'm trying to figure it out and then it's done but I was sure this was gonna be tricky which is why I waited forever but it's affecting everything because I keep thinking that I'm a nothing and it seems to correspond with her. Music is becoming so prominent, I don't have support either because my parents disagree. Times not doing it , I tried that believe me.

Is there such thing as desiring a close relationship but not having a crush on a person? If there isn't maybe I have one....how do you tell?!!!

....

[m1469]

We all want to be special to people we admire, but we have to learn to accept that we are often not.

True.  That is one thing, for sure.  Another, is to lay awake at night, feeling a kind of unignorable gravity or resonation in the pit of your being, pulling you somewhere that you don't really know, and you have no choice but to feel this and go with it.  To have this be and become a force of nature in one's life, and to find a teacher on the other side of it.  That person can't be arbitrary.

[musiqientist]

True.  That is one thing, for sure.  Another, is to lay awake at night, feeling a kind of unignorable gravity or resonation in the pit of your being, pulling you somewhere that you don't really know, and you have no choice but to feel this and go with it.  To have this be and become a force of nature in one's life, and to find a teacher on the other side of it.  That person can't be arbitrary.

That sounds deep...I don't get it.

[outin]

Yeah I know.... I wish that wasn't true though. I wanna learn more go farther and longer forever!!! Yeah I mean, I don't intend to just keep going forever, I'm trying to figure it out and then it's done but I was sure this was gonna be tricky which is why I waited forever but it's affecting everything because I keep thinking that I'm a nothing and it seems to correspond with her. Music is becoming so prominent, I don't have support either because my parents disagree. Times not doing it , I tried that believe me.

You are 17 and if I understood your post correctly you've been with the teacher for a year? How many hours of interaction? Not that many really. Not much time has passed yet, you must be patient.

I think what you really need is someone to share your musical experience with, to talk about your progress, someone to give you encouragement. Your teacher's means of giving that are very limited because of the short time you spend together. Much of it has to go to the actual teaching. And if she is 65 she is from a different generation and has been used to different kind of communication in a teacher/pupil relationship.

Could it be that much of your anxiety comes from the fact that you don't know if it's all worth it, your parents attitude and lack if connection with other aspiring musicians? It can be hard not to be able to share your passion with anyone...that's why some of us hang out here I guess

Is there such thing as desiring a close relationship but not having a crush on a person? If there isn't maybe I have one....how do you tell?!!!

Of course there is

There's a fine line between friendship and romance sometimes. So one can have "a crush" in a different sense, wanting to befriend with someone, be part if their life without having any sexual feelings for them.But in your case I don't think it's about the teacher so much, it's about you and your feelings about your music experience that you are transfering into this relationship. You probably have a crush on the piano and music really. Which can be an endless source of frustration, since she's often a real b***

[outin]

That sounds deep...I don't get it.

Don't worry, many of us don't, m1469 is as deep sometimes as the Mariana Trench...

[bernadette60614]

I feel as if we are leading parallel student lives!

My teacher can be practically girlish sometimes..and other times, I'm quite certain that she has a whip in her tote and she's just restraining herself with all her force of will.

She is also a reknown soloist, teacher and was something of a piano prodigy (her parents were pianists.) 

Perhaps what you (and I) are experiencing is a style typical of teachers with that kind of background...

Something I've been working on: Detaching myself from the personal relationship and focusing on her instruction instead.  Last lesson she said very sternly:  I did NOT give you my permission to use the pedal.  Another teacher with another background might have said:  Let's leave the pedal for later.

I think it may just be a very old school approach to teaching and communication.  My teacher is not German, but, darn, if frequently she isn't down right Prussian!

[m1469]

I can *sort of* see some value in the use of certain "mind games" to help direct attention towards something of actual musical value - if somehow there is no other way.  One of the biggest unfortunates though, I think, is when the purpose of that is lost and interaction is not actually based on music anymore.  If, instead, it becomes about some strange veil, without a foundation, between two people.  Personally, it's been my goal to understand a basic, true structure in music, and I've operated under the belief that in order to learn more about this, and in order to learn how to live this as a pianist, this basic structure in music must be the focus of learning.

[musiqientist]

That can happen...it's not all about sex you know.

I think you may have invested too much emotionally in your relationship with the teacher. Which is completely normal, since piano is important to you and your teacher is a big part of your piano experience. But a teacher is only a teacher, a professional, and some are better than others in the motivational part. Think of it this way: You are spending an awful lot of time thinking about your relationship with your teacher, but she may only think about you once a week on your lesson. We all want to be special to people we admire, but we have to learn to accept that we are often not.

Try to concentrate more on assessing if she is a good teacher for you in terms of your learning the tools to play better and time should take care of the rest.

I know and it hurts because observing the people who got truly successful in classical music, they have what they want. They are in it, surrounded by it, can experience it to all the depths that it has to offer. They can spend all their time on it and have so many people they can speak to, dream, amd explore it with. like a music professor for example. I am  ridiculously jealous of things such that when you study music in Asia or Europe it consists of more than just weekly lessons. There's something so authentic about it all that is really just missing where I am. I want to live it too. Instead I'm on a route to med school.

Yeah, I think I am infatuated with her lol. But like you said it's not sexual. I'm interested in everything about her in a way that would not occur in another person of the same qualities. I always try to connect everything she tells me about herself to her childhood and so I can get a real feel of what it was like growing up as a future musician. I feel like I have to absorb it all and it makes me so clingy because I feel so much like I am already on the verge of losing its magic and everyday as I get older the feeling grows stronger, I even feel panicked.

[musiqientist]

I feel as if we are leading parallel student lives!

My teacher can be practically girlish sometimes..and other times, I'm quite certain that she has a whip in her tote and she's just restraining herself with all her force of will.

She is also a reknown soloist, teacher and was something of a piano prodigy (her parents were pianists.)  

Perhaps what you (and I) are experiencing is a style typical of teachers with that kind of background...

Something I've been working on: Detaching myself from the personal relationship and focusing on her instruction instead.  Last lesson she said very sternly:  I did NOT give you my permission to use the pedal.  Another teacher with another background might have said:  Let's leave the pedal for later.

I think it may just be a very old school approach to teaching and communication.  My teacher is not German, but, darn, if frequently she isn't down right Prussian!

I know I've been fantasizing about her lately because last week when I saw her it was as if she'd read all this..... COME OUT WHEREVER YOU ARE!!!!!!

I have a feeling your teacher is rougher and mine is just more manipulative but all the same yes, they do seem similar. Mine is so girlish all the time!!!

"Are you blind."
"Don't be so obnoxious."
"Don't be so blasé."
"And you can even do this right for me? How disappointing, I'm gonna cry tonight in bed."
"Put your finger there and you die."
"Ewww! It's awful!"
"What was THAT?!!!"
"Do you have no concept of ties?!"
"I'd hoped this would have sunk in more."
"Slow down, I'm scared of you when you play that fast."

[musiqientist]

I can *sort of* see some value in the use of certain "mind games" to help direct attention towards something of actual musical value - if somehow there is no other way.  One of the biggest unfortunates though, I think, is when the purpose of that is lost and interaction is not actually based on music anymore.  If, instead, it becomes about some strange veil, without a foundation, between two people.  Personally, it's been my goal to understand a basic, true structure in music, and I've operated under the belief that in order to learn more about this, and in order to learn how to live this as a pianist, this basic structure in music must be the focus of learning.

And regarding these thoughts what is your interpretation of my situation.

[musiqientist]

I'm recalling something else now. Sometimes she says this passage is truly hard and when I play it the first time wrong she starts getting really heated up and starts yelling and repeating the same instructions. Why that after saying it is actually is hard? I'm not sure it's anger just really intense. Of I ask for a slow repeat she just rushes more and says it again, not caring if I'm totally clear. It's like just leaving me half ready. So confusing.

[virtuoso80]

I know I've been fantasizing about her lately because last week when I saw her it was as if she'd read all this..... COME OUT WHEREVER YOU ARE!!!!!!

I have a feeling your teacher is rougher and mine is just more manipulative but all the same yes, they do seem similar. Mine is so girlish all the time!!!

"Are you blind."
"Don't be so obnoxious."
"Don't be so blasé."
"And you can even do this right for me? How disappointing, I'm gonna cry tonight in bed."
"Put your finger there and you die."
"Ewww! It's awful!"
"What was THAT?!!!"
"Do you have no concept of ties?!"
"I'd hoped this would have sunk in more."
"Slow down, I'm scared of you when you play that fast."

Ugh. I could NEVER work with a teacher like that. Maybe she hits an un-serious tone with it that is not coming through in text? Otherwise it rubs me the wrong way, and I would be saying, 'Excuse me? Who the heck are you to be talking to me like that?'

[musiqientist]

Ugh. I could NEVER work with a teacher like that. Maybe she hits an un-serious tone with it that is not coming through in text? Otherwise it rubs me the wrong way, and I would be saying, 'Excuse me? Who the heck are you to be talking to me like that?'

They're slightly serious but not severe like they seem here. The second half just have a really guilt tripping attitude to them.  It doesn't lower me i just get really self conscious.

[virtuoso80]

They're slightly serious but not severe like they seem here. The second half just have a really guilt tripping attitude to them.  It doesn't lower me i just get really self conscious.

Conversely, I once had a teacher who could make you feel like crap without saying a word. I would play a piece for him (no wrong notes or fundamental problems, mind you), and he would just be silent for a moment, almost incredulous, like 'I can't believe you just played that badly'.

[musiqientist]

Conversely, I once had a teacher who could make you feel like crap without saying a word. I would play a piece for him (no wrong notes or fundamental problems, mind you), and he would just be silent for a moment, almost incredulous, like 'I can't believe you just played that badly'.

Wow haha, she generally doesn't say anything when I'm perfect. She just doesn't criticize and might mention why what I just did is why everyone should always do what I just did all the time.

[musiqientist]

I feel as if we are leading parallel student lives!

My teacher can be practically girlish sometimes..and other times, I'm quite certain that she has a whip in her tote and she's just restraining herself with all her force of will.

She is also a reknown soloist, teacher and was something of a piano prodigy (her parents were pianists.) 

Perhaps what you (and I) are experiencing is a style typical of teachers with that kind of background...

Something I've been working on: Detaching myself from the personal relationship and focusing on her instruction instead.  Last lesson she said very sternly:  I did NOT give you my permission to use the pedal.  Another teacher with another background might have said:  Let's leave the pedal for later.

I think it may just be a very old school approach to teaching and communication.  My teacher is not German, but, darn, if frequently she isn't down right Prussian!

It just hit med why I thought your teacher was strange. Are you an adult? I find it strange that somebody would speak with an adult like that somehow.

[lostinidlewonder]

musiqientist I think you should share your opening post with your teacher. That is very well written and expresses your sensitive nature. If she reacts badly to it then get a new teacher, a good teacher would love to hear this kind of feedback from a student.

A good teacher cares for their students and certainly cares about how comfortable they are when practicing in front of them. I have met so many students from all ability levels from the beginner to advanced who can be petrified to play for a teacher or anyone for that matter. Some who I have taught for over 10 years still shake in their hands when they play! I always offer reassurance and commend a students improvement. I never relate a students playing to a perfect model but instead relate it to how they have improved themselves this offers much more comfort to students and confidence in their playing in a lesson environment.

Some students who are extremely nervous try to do everyone correct and make changes on the spot immediately. This clouds their thinking while playing for the teacher. It is important not to overload these students as a teacher. It is also important to know what kind of nervous thinker this student is, do they like to study the problem on their own then come back to the teacher, or do they like to solve the problem with the teacher and get a result in the lesson? I find most like to take it home and work on it then come back. Sometimes however I will make them try to solve the problem with me and that puts them in uncomfortable grounds.

A teacher always has to ensure a student is comfortable. I notice every sigh, negative facial expression, uncomfortable shifting etc etc. It is different for everyone but a good teacher will get to know their students and know when/how to help them feel more confident.

[outin]

I'm recalling something else now. Sometimes she says this passage is truly hard and when I play it the first time wrong she starts getting really heated up and starts yelling and repeating the same instructions. Why that after saying it is actually is hard? I'm not sure it's anger just really intense. Of I ask for a slow repeat she just rushes more and says it again, not caring if I'm totally clear. It's like just leaving me half ready. So confusing.

Teachers are human too, not machines...they may get a bit frustrated sometimes... Yelling to a student doesn't sound good, but some people have a tendency to raise their voice when they get exited without meaning to yell...
 
My teacher often wants to move on when I would like to dwell on some detail because I feel I didn't "get it" yet. Don't know if it's because she gets tired with me or if it's because she knows that if she just forces me to leave it then I will be back next week having worked it out myself...

[musiqientist]

musiqientist I think you should share your opening post with your teacher. That is very well written and expresses your sensitive nature. If she reacts badly to it then get a new teacher, a good teacher would love to hear this kind of feedback from a student.

I can't bring myself to tell her anything no matter what. Not even how badly I want to be a concert pianist. I don't think it's her, mainly again my sensitive nature. I don't know what to do...