Frederic Chopin Etude op. 10 no. 1

[johannesbrahms]

Hello, everyone. This is my first post, so I'm looking to learn a lot.

As a pianist, the most important thing to me is presenting the composer's idea. The last thing I want to be is a have-notes-will-travel pianist who expresses little to no emotion. With Chopin, the playing must be very emotional. I am having trouble with the first etude in op. 10, however. I am not quite sure what emotion to express in this piece. I also have trouble with the second etude in op. 10.

If anybody could help me, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance!

[virtuoso80]

Hi, welcome to the forum. The first thing you should know is that people come here and ask things about the Chopin etudes constantly, and everything has been said 100 times, so the regulars might be a little bored by a post like this. I'm not bored with it yet, so I'll dig in:

There are advanced pianists who still can't play Op. 10, No. 1 and No. 2 authoritatively. The fact that you don't even address the difficulty makes me a bit suspect. How far are you into actually conquering the technical demands of these pieces?

It also makes me wonder: If you're going for emotion, why in the world would you choose these pieces out of everything? There are not only far more expressive Etudes, but far more expressive collections of pieces. Why not Preludes? Ballades? Mazurkas? IMO a truly deep and expressive Chopin Mazurka performance is as hard as anything else.

[j_menz]

With Chopin, the playing must be very emotional. I am having trouble with the first etude in op. 10, however. I am not quite sure what emotion to express in this piece. I also have trouble with the second etude in op. 10.

What you are to express is to be found in the music itself. It is not something you add in from outside.

Have you played any of the other etudes?  Any other Chopin? What else do you play?

[ajspiano]

What do you feel when listening to a good recording of the piece.

Try pollini's recording -

....

would also second both the above posts - its a little odd that you would have the technical competence to tackle the aforementioned works but not know how to interpret them, given their relative lack of musical depth comparatively to a great deal of other chopin, including works that are very significantly less taxing.

[outin]

What do you feel when listening to a good recording of the piece.

Try pollini's recording -

I must have heard this particular recording at least a hundred times and it is strange how it always brings the same feeling to me, don't know what it is though and cannot put it into words. But probably your advice will very helpful if ever was to play the piece  

Just realized I must be a real simpleton, because seemingly "simple" short pieces like these etudes or Scarlatti sonatas awoke more feelings in me than extensive, rich in texture and clearly emotional ones (like something by Rach for example).

[j_menz]

Just realized I must be a real simpleton, because seemingly "simple" short pieces like these etudes or Scarlatti sonatas awoke more feelings in me than extensive, rich in texture and clearly emotional ones (like something by Rach for example).

You're just pretending you didn't read this:

"To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour." - William Blake

Perhaps they need a "smarter" one.  Any idiot can be dazzled by the complex and sophisticated. It takes greater wisdom to find the depths of the simple.

 

[outin]

You're just pretending you didn't read this:

 

Busted! 

[outin]

I also have trouble with the second etude in op. 10.

Who wouldn't? 

Enjoying this piece is not about emotions at all for me, it's more like an addiction. Listening to it releases some chemical in my brain that makes me want another fix...

[dima_76557]

As a pianist, the most important thing to me is presenting the composer's idea. The last thing I want to be is a have-notes-will-travel pianist who expresses little to no emotion.

Such pianists usually don't have enough technique in a broad sense (touch, tone projection, etc.). If it sounds mechanical, then there is usually not enough technique.

With Chopin, the playing must be very emotional.

I think it is a misunderstanding if pianists try to add something that is not there. In that way, the music easily becomes cheap. Chopin put everything necessary in there already. What we need to do is reveal the architecture, balance and project tone, understand how the listener will perceive the sound picture, do what we do with utmost intensity, sometimes boarding on controlled hysteria.

I am having trouble with the first etude in op. 10, however. I am not quite sure what emotion to express in this piece. I also have trouble with the second etude in op. 10.

The sheer joy caused by the victory of your mind over Chopin's matter should be enough to make this piece sound convincing. Technique, technique, technique... (c)

[cranston53]

I am not quite sure what emotion to express in this piece.

I think you're over thinking things.

The Chopin 10/1 is a fiendish, gruelling exercise in arpeggios and hand positions. It is an etude. It's purpose is to build strength in your fingers, stretch them this way and that, get your wrists moving etcetc. Don't worry about the musical side of things.

I play the piece (play being used in the loosest sense of the word) everyday, as an alternative to arpeggios. I pick a section, pull it apart, check my fingering, get the old grey matter moving....

I love Chopin as much as the next man, but it's hardly a pretty piece. Sounds more like air guitar.

[dima_76557]

The Chopin 10/1 is a fiendish, gruelling exercise in arpeggios and hand positions. It is an etude. It's purpose is to build strength in your fingers, stretch them this way and that, get your wrists moving etcetc.

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but to my mind it is nothing of the above. Chopin, on the contrary, takes his stance against the traditional finger exercises (stiff arm and finger articulation) and gives us a glorious "exercise" where horizontal leading with the arm to get the fingers in their position to play is essential for success. The difficulty is the perfect transition of 1-5, 5-1 which few pianists manage really well. There's nothing there that stretches an average hand if your approach is correct, neither are you supposed to get strong fingers from this piece.

I love Chopin as much as the next man, but it's hardly a pretty piece. Sounds more like air guitar.

I think it is a VERY beautiful piece and the pianist has room to take different approaches:
1) hammer it out throughout with martellato (the Pollini approach) which gives a sound quality that reminds of marble
2) play it like a glorious Bach chorale with organ sound effects, e.g. deep base and relatively light right hand sound qualities.

[johannesbrahms]

To be quite honest, my hands are somewhat large, so the arpeggios are not nearly as difficult as they are to other people. They are still hard, but as always, practice, practice, practice. The etude in thirds, on the other hands, is, well...

I was of the understanding that playing should never be mechanical. If everything you need is in the score, what is the job of the interpreter?

[dima_76557]

I was of the understanding that playing should never be mechanical. If everything you need is in the score, what is the job of the interpreter?

Be a humble medium between the composer and the public and reveal what's in the score.

Chopin did not write "program music" like, for example, Liszt, where you need to depict a story behind the music to bring it alive. Chopin's music plays itself when executed well, and is usually spoiled by adding too much "emotion" in the sense of cheap tricks to get the public's attention. If you do what the composer asks you to do, the public will get the message and fill in the emotional content itself. Just lift the listeners up by doing exactly what's written with high quality and they won't need any extra help to go through the intended experience.

[outin]

I was of the understanding that playing should never be mechanical. If everything you need is in the score, what is the job of the interpreter?

I am sure Dima can put it much better in words but there's a difference in playing mechanically and playing with technique. That is what one needs to realize what's in the score... One is always interpreting anyway.

And I definitely agree that Chopin was not an emotional composer in the way some people like to think. And gimmicks are not needed for his music to have an effect. That's why I like it I guess

[johannesbrahms]

Judging from what you are saying, I think I understand why I like Lhevinne and Arrau so much when they play Chopin. They follow the score exactly, and their playing is so emotional, yet not like many other pianists who use cheap tricks.

So the idea is to play the piece well, and the audience will feel it? If so, the job of interpreting just got easier. Thank you!

[cranston53]

I think it is a VERY beautiful piece and the pianist has room to take different approaches:

Hello Dima,

Thank you for the response. You are, of course, correct. I was being flippant. It is a beautiful piece and you are entirely right to suggest the idea of playing it as a Bach chorale. I think that's the way I like to hear it played, with a little more staccato and not too much pedal.

But it surely strengthens the hands and fingers? I'm at work, so don't have the score in front of me but the second measure introduces (I think) a interval from C to A that needs to be 1/2. And then an interval from the C to F which needs to be 4/5 (again, not sure). These will likely be new hand positions for anyone approching the piece for the first time. Hence the idea of this particular etude tearing up the rule book.

Perhaps you're lucky with your hand span!

[dima_76557]

But it surely strengthens the hands and fingers?

Probably, but not more than anything else in the pianist's repertoire. I am quite sure it was NOT intended to get strong fingers or to stretch the hand. Liszt understood that immediately, but many of Chopin's contemporaries didn't.

I'm at work, so don't have the score in front of me but the second measure introduces (I think) a interval from C to A that needs to be 1/2. And then an interval from the C to F which needs to be 4/5 (again, not sure). These will likely be new hand positions for anyone approching the piece for the first time. Hence the idea of this particular etude tearing up the rule book.

Let the arm lead (horizontally, in and out of the keys, etc.) and you will see that what initially seemed like huge stretches becomes quite manageable. Any attempt at stretching in this piece actually spoils it all both technically and musically.

Perhaps you're lucky with your hand span!

Actually, having huge hands does not solve the problems Chopin poses. I think there is even more risk of doing it the wrong way and ending up with the physiotherapist.

[j_menz]

If everything you need is in the score, what is the job of the interpreter?

To find it, and to play it so that what is there is given voice - freed from the page, so to speak.

I don not mean to suggest it is easy, as the rarity of it compels the opposite view.

[whiteboyfunk]

All of this talk about the Chopin Etudes just begs me to set out and try one. I will second some of what I've read in here about the almost pedantic aspect of etudes, Chopin or not. Despite the composer in these cases though, they still look to be very practical, musical and well-executed exercises.

[awesom_o]

This is my recording of op. 10 no. 1.
https://soundcloud.com/carlisle-beresford/etude-no-1-in-c-major-op-10

I have played it for 10 years, since I was 14 years old.
So far the recording has been somewhat controversial. My most recent teacher thought it was fantastic, as did many others. A few hated it and felt that my bass line had no melody. One PS member mistook my recording for Pollini's and accused me of being Joyce Hatto!

I'm interested to hear what you think!