Even if my mother is right....

[faa2010]

Today I had a discussion with my mother.  In a discreet way, she wanted to tell me that I shouldn't quit my job in order to be in a music school.

Ok, let's start from the beginning: I am 27 years old, I finished a major in an Engineering and right now I am working.  During the last 2 months, I presented some exams in order to enter to a music school and play piano.  If I pass the selection, I will begin my courses this year, if not (which I see more obvious because I didn't play well in the evaluation), I am going to try again next year.

My mother is assuming that I will pass it and she is scared that I will quit my job and become "non-productive" to society again.  I try to reason with her that I have finished a major, I already achieved job experience and that it is possible that I may not pass the exam, but she didn't listen, she was still seeing that if I enter to the school I won't be independent.

At some point I told her that I am already an adult and I have to take my decisions on my own, but she insisted, and so I told her that I haven't asked her opinion (she made me lose my patience). She told me not to be bad mannered, she got hurt and I told her that I was sorry.

I know my mother wants the best, but sometimes she wants to take the decisions for me, and also she contradicts herself (last year she told me that I had to look for a job in another enterprise she knows by a friend of hers).

Maybe she is right, maybe not, but she sounded that she wanted to make me stay in a place where I don't feel happy. I think she is afraid of the unknown things.

What I don't like about her is that she sometimes doesn't listen and she thinks that she is right.

What do you think?

[outin]

What I don't like about her is that she sometimes doesn't listen and she thinks that she is right.

What do you think?

I think she's a typical mother. I cannot stand mine for a whole day... If you are not in anyway depended on her, let her give her opinion and make your own decisions.

[lloyd_cdb]

As an bit of an over-realist I'd voice the same concerns, albeit with different wording and an actual attempt at advice instead of solely criticism. No offense meant towards your mother, but that can be a typical emotional reaction from a parent in response to drastic life changes.

That being said:

I try to reason with her that I have finished a major, I already achieved job experience and that it is possible that I may not pass the exam, but she didn't listen, she was still seeing that if I enter to the school I won't be independent.

This is a completely valid concern. I have a double major in Econ/Math, minoring in Stats. It's all but a perfect pedigree for my industry (finance). I did a job for 2 years I hated. I started looking for jobs but ended up quitting before I had a new one. I tutored business school statistics as well as college calc/stats on the side while looking for a job. It took me a year and half to find a new job, simply for not being active in the industry. Work experience stops mattering if you aren't actively involved, especially if you show disinterest by switching industries. (Demand for engineers might be different though)

All that being said, if you TRULY hate your job, do what might make you happy. But "do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life" is a bullshit phrase for the .01% that end up successful in their hobby. You need to understand there is a 99.99% chance you don't make money at all, especially in an industry like music (Although I don't think you specifically stated this as your goal?)

I know my mother wants the best, but sometimes she wants to take the decisions for me, and also she contradicts herself (last year she told me that I had to look for a job in another enterprise she knows by a friend of hers).

Expressing fear and concern is different than trying to make decisions for you. From your commentary, it seems this is a more appropriate interpretation of her comments. A parent with a child at 27 is nearing retirement. Re-supporting a grown child is more expensive than a young kid. It's a completely valid fear/concern for her own future.

What do you think?

It's your decision. Our commentary and responses shouldn't factor directly into your decision, just your decision making process.

As a 27 year old myself, an industry change would terrify the hell out of myself if for nothing but my social life. I'm currently contemplating it, however it's a move to an industry with drastically more demand (software development) not one with considerably-extremely-drastically-terrifyingly-discouragingly less demand. Overly vulgar, but: If you're single, it's tough to get laid at 27 living with your parents...

[oxy60]

At 27 you're too old to be fooling around changing your mind from one life course to another. It's called arrested development. And it's not doing society or you any good.

Get a grip man, it's time to grow up!

[faa2010]

As an bit of an over-realist I'd voice the same concerns, albeit with different wording and an actual attempt at advice instead of solely criticism. No offense meant towards your mother, but that can be a typical emotional reaction from a parent in response to drastic life changes.

That being said:

This is a completely valid concern. I have a double major in Econ/Math, minoring in Stats. It's all but a perfect pedigree for my industry (finance). I did a job for 2 years I hated. I started looking for jobs but ended up quitting before I had a new one. I tutored business school statistics as well as college calc/stats on the side while looking for a job. It took me a year and half to find a new job, simply for not being active in the industry. Work experience stops mattering if you aren't actively involved, especially if you show disinterest by switching industries. (Demand for engineers might be different though)

All that being said, if you TRULY hate your job, do what might make you happy. But "do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life" is a bullshit phrase for the .01% that end up successful in their hobby. You need to understand there is a 99.99% chance you don't make money at all, especially in an industry like music (Although I don't think you specifically stated this as your goal?)

Expressing fear and concern is different than trying to make decisions for you. From your commentary, it seems this is a more appropriate interpretation of her comments. A parent with a child at 27 is nearing retirement. Re-supporting a grown child is more expensive than a young kid. It's a completely valid fear/concern for her own future.

It's your decision. Our commentary and responses shouldn't factor directly into your decision, just your decision making process.

As a 27 year old myself, an industry change would terrify the hell out of myself if for nothing but my social life. I'm currently contemplating it, however it's a move to an industry with drastically more demand (software development) not one with considerably-extremely-drastically-terrifyingly-discouragingly less demand. Overly vulgar, but: If you're single, it's tough to get laid at 27 living with your parents...

You know, you said good points. However, I sometimes have had that feeling that my mother thinks she knows best that she wants, even though she denies it later, to be in charge of everything.

About my goal, I have thought about it for a long time (5 or 6 years), and my work ironically gave me the strength to do my bet.

At work, one of my best qualities has been giving training to others, and I got good comments about it.  Then I thought that if I go back to school, I don't have to study necessarily a MA of the Major I finished, it can be another Major (studying 2 majors has become more popular).

Piano has become a part of me, and I wanted to improve my skills and also get more education related to music (history, aural training, sight-reading, etc).  

I know the possibilities of becoming a professional pianist are pretty low, but I though that even if I cannot reach my goal, I will return to where I have skills: being a teacher or a mentor.

Like my father said I don't have to worry as long as I do what I like (as long as I am single).

[lloyd_cdb]

You know, you said good points. However, I sometimes have had that feeling that my mother thinks she knows best that she wants, even though she denies it later, to be in charge of everything.

Like my father said I don't have to worry as long as I do what I like (as long as I am single).

My father is the same way. He expresses subtle disdain for my career choice while claiming it's only casual conversation. If I ever say I just had a bad day, he says "maybe you should change careers".

Again, doing what you truly want doesn't always put food on the table. Even being single at 27, the family I assume I'll have in 10 years factors into every monetary decision I make from the cost of taking a taxi to the effect of a career change. I am a bit of an over-thinker though, so take it with a grain of salt.

[iansinclair]

My first thought is that what any of us says really shouldn't matter -- it's your life.

My second thought -- and the way I went with my own children -- is: follow your star.  Sometimes we find out -- sometimes much too late! -- that we are in the wrong place, or the wrong job, or even, sadly, with the wrong person and we have to make a choice: can this situation be made good, or do we have to break and do something else?  Often the first choice is possible -- you might, for instance, be able to get a music degree and keep on with the engineering (it's not hopeless: my first love is music, and for about 50 years I was a church musician, but I was never good enough to get a job with a full time family size wage, so I too worked as an engineer for most of those years, just to pay the bills).  Sometimes it isn't.  Sometimes you have to make a complete break: my son was a ballet dancer, and a very successful one, but when it came time to stop he changed careers completely, and is finishing a degree in engineering as I type (not that he loved dance too little, but too much).  And we can't tell you which is which for you.

Good luck.

[ted]

Do you know yourself ? Do you know exactly what makes you happy and, possibly more importantly, what is likely to make you happy in thirty or more years ? In my experience, very few younger people do. Come to think of it, many older people of my acquaintance still don't know themselves. I was blissfully idealistic at your age, especially about music and romantic love. The risks I took horrify me now and events turned out well largely due to chance. My parents were very close and supportive, the computer revolution enabled a redirection of certain talents through self-tuition, giving me a good living for decades without huge effort, and through extraordinary circumstances and luck I met just the right woman for me at just the right time.

Oh dear, I've really no business proffering advice at all, have I ! As Ian says, in the end it is your life. The part about where you'll be in thirty years is useful though, if you can bring yourself to analyse it with sufficient objectivity.

[outin]

I never thought it's worth to plan life too much, because you cannot really control what will happen in the long run. You make your decisions based on the present information and after making them it's no use to look back (unless you have access to a time machine). You cannot return to the past to correct your "mistakes", but new doors will always be open if you keep your eyes open. You can have a goal in the future, but to really get something out of life, you also need short term goals that you can actually achieve with high probability. It's possible to struggle to get somewhere for a long time and then realize it's not what one wants anymore or it wasn't as one thought it would be...

I do sense that you are insecure about your decision, otherwise what your mother says would not bother you quite that much. I suggest you make a list of things you can gain by making this change. Do you know enough about them to really want them based on facts or is your dream based on some idealistic view of musical life? Then make a list of risks. Can you handle them? Then analyze how much extra pressure and work this will all be compared to what you are doing now. Then you make your decision and live with it, not looking back. You'll probably be able to convince you mother after you have convinced yourself in a more organized way.

[lostinidlewonder]

Listen to mummy or be spanked!

How do you intend to pay for your living if you do music? Engineering gives you a good income and you want to put that aside to study music full time, for what reason? Your decision seems crazy to me and I'm on your mums side Why not study piano after work?

[j_menz]

You have a choice. Imagine yourself in ten years. What will be the one that will still nag you if you hadn't made it?

Our bad choices we (mostly) survive. It is the paths we do not take that haunt us.

[outin]

Listen to mummy or be spanked!

How do you intend to pay for your living if you do music? Engineering gives you a good income and you want to put that aside to study music full time, for what reason? Your decision seems crazy to me and I'm on your mums side Why not study piano after work?

I sense that money is not a major issue here, but rather whether what you do in something useful or important.

I personally would not mind putting aside a good income to do something I really want to do, as long as I know I will survive. But in this case I am not sure OP knows enough about what he wants yet.

[lostinidlewonder]

If one wants to be a professional student then I guess it is ok. Get an engineering degree, then a music, then what next? You need to stick with something and soon, you will not be living forever and being almost 30 doesn't mean you are still very young.

[outin]

If one wants to be a professional student then I guess it is ok. Get an engineering degree, then a music, then what next? You need to stick with something and soon, you will not be living forever and being almost 30 doesn't mean you are still very young.

30 is pretty young actually. At that age I had not made any career choices and during the following 15 years I have done quite well. Why would I need to stick with something? Life is limited and if I can turn it around in every 10 years or so, I think I'll get much more out of it than by sticking to one path

[j_menz]

You need to stick with something and soon

Why? All that may mean is that you are stuck. Many people change careers midstream, sometimes several times. Indeed for some of us, the jobs we do simply didn't exist at the time we should have "stuck with something".

[lostinidlewonder]

Getting a degree in engineering costs a lot of money. If money is not a problem then I doubt severely his mother would be on his case.

And he did notably mention this:

"....she was still seeing that if I enter to the school I won't be independent."

[outin]

I think there's a risk also in sticking to one path for decades. You will be less prepared when the change comes from outside without a warning and you cannot do anything about it but find a new path.

[outin]

Getting a degree in engineering costs a lot of money. If money is not a problem then I doubt severely his mother would be on his case.

And he did notably mention this:

"....she was still seeing that if I enter to the school I won't be independent."

I thought op is not an American? Different cultures, different customs.

[lostinidlewonder]

Who said the Op was american?
It is irrelevant in my mind where they are from. Seeing someone get a degree in engineering which takes a lot of work (I personally know this as I studied engineering also then changed to music). Then getting a job as an engineer (which is not always easy as a graduate) a most important "foot in the door." and then just not caring about that opportunity he was given and change to music, that in my mind is not a very professional way to go about treating your career path. If you are academically minded, this makes you happy and/or money is no problem then of course this venture is fine, but for most people it is not the best choice.

[j_menz]

I personally know this as I studied engineering also then changed to music

So your advice to OP is to do as you say, not as you did? 

[lostinidlewonder]

hehe, I didn't graduate as an engineer though, I changed while I was studying.

[outin]

Who said the Op was american?
It is irrelevant in my mind where they are from.

But it's not. In some cultures the parents (and the whole extended family) still have a lot of influence on people's lives, even when they are older. If the mother had said something like "Don't expect us to provide for you when you run out of money" it would be more clear. But if the parents have the means to provide for op or if he has assests of his own, then the discussion is on a totally different level. Even the fact that he is contemplating something like this (which probably won't make him much money in any case) suggests that he is pretty well off...

[senanserat]

Come quickly, listen close, I'm going to share one of life's great secrets. Yes, yes, a secret. And like most dark, hidden things in this world, it is a secret with teeth. It is something we all learn, that we let children discover for themselves, and that haunts us to our grave… and for all I know, beyond.

It is something we work to forget, something that can be forgotten, if we fill our days with enough activity that we're left no time to be alone with our thoughts…

Regrets are forever.

How many regrets do you have?

One? Two? A few?

Enough to fill a lifetime?

Regrets are forever.

Wounds heal, bones mend, regrets are forever, regrets don't heal, they whisper and dig deep into our souls.

Oh they whisper… whisper to us late at night, when we're alone. Some of you will be world-weary enough to understand, probably with a stab of raw pain, what I'm saying. The rest of you are probably still too young and wide-eyed to know the sting of regret. I don't envy you the future, though a word of advice…

Take the risk. Try, try, try. Ask that pretty girl out, while you can, laugh alone in a crowd, tell a joke, speak in front of hundreds of people, try to walk on water, pursue your ambition and fight for it, if you have to, always and forever that..

The moral of the story? Trying, whether you succeed or fail, is the only way we can live with ourselves through the regrets that can't be avoided. You're still young do what you must while you're not responsable for others, you already have a major, you can fall back on it. Or...do both.

Best Wishes

[lostinidlewonder]

But it's not.

But it is for me so what is your point?

30 is pretty young actually.

I didn't say it wasn't "pretty young" I said almost 30 is not young. In terms of a career 30 is not young.

At that age I had not made any career choices and during the following 15 years I have done quite well. Why would I need to stick with something? Life is limited and if I can turn it around in every 10 years or so, I think I'll get much more out of it than by sticking to one path

I am just considering the OPs situation, getting a degree AND receiving a job, then wanting to give it all up to study music. Why not work in engineering for a little more than few years? It certainly doesn't look good on your CV if jump about all the place with your career.

[outin]

But it is for me so what is your point?

My point was that what's in your mind may not be relevant in this case

I am just considering the OPs situation, getting a degree AND receiving a job, then wanting to give it all up to study music. Why not work in engineering for a little more than few years? It certainly doesn't look good on your CV if jump about all the place with your career.

Because when it comes to music 30 really is not young so waiting and working a few more years in engineering isn't very useful if in the end he decides to study music anyway. If he was a little away from graduation and would quit and change it would seem irrational. But he has his degree now. We do not know how easy or difficult it will be to get a new engineering job where he comes from. That is one of the things he should consider and he needs facts for that.

We also do not know what his expectations on his "career" in any field are. Not everyone is ambitious and in need to get more material things, for many of us it's enough to make a reasonable living.

[oxy60]

I get the impression that everyone here is wealthy, and money is plentiful. Nobody seems to be concerned that we only have a limited number of productive years to earn for the present and put something aside for the future.

While following your dreams and flitting from flower to flower may be good for the soul, who will feed the body when you are too old to work?

 

[lostinidlewonder]

My point was that what's in your mind may not be relevant in this case

Who cares? It might it might not, we don't need you to be the adjudicator of that.

Because when it comes to music 30 really is not young

That's funny.

I get the impression that everyone here is wealthy, and money is plentiful. Nobody seems to be concerned that we only have a limited number of productive years to earn for the present and put something aside for the future.

While following your dreams and flitting from flower to flower may be good for the soul, who will feed the body when you are too old to work?

Yeah I think many posters still live at home and get all their bills paid for lol.

[outin]

Who cares? It might it might not, we don't need you to be the adjudicator of that.

Who are we?

I do not judge, but I do evaluate.

[outin]

While following your dreams and flitting from flower to flower may be good for the soul, who will feed the body when you are too old to work?

Some of us can take advantage of a pretty decent social security system 

[senanserat]

Some of us can take advantage of a pretty decent social security system 

And I am rich already so... =P

[oxy60]

Some of us can take advantage of a pretty decent social security system 

Did you pay into it?

[outin]

Did you pay into it?

Not sure what you mean?
The government takes it's share when I work...

[oxy60]

Not sure what you mean?
The government takes it's share when I work...

You've paid into it with your sweat and blood! And now you can look forward to a comfortable old age. How sweet it is...

[outin]

You've paid into it with your sweat and blood! And now you can look forward to a comfortable old age. How sweet it is...

Well, whether I had paid or not I would still be entitled to the basics.

Since I have never saved a penny in my life and probably won't have a large pension I will have to make sure I have a good piano and lots of sheet music when I retire...won't need much money then

[lostinidlewonder]

Yeah you can build a roof out of your sheet music and live inside the piano

[oxy60]

Well, whether I had paid or not I would still be entitled to the basics.

Since I have never saved a penny in my life and probably won't have a large pension I will have to make sure I have a good piano and lots of sheet music when I retire...won't need much money then

It's nice to hear that one EU country is keeping its promises. Some (unmentioned) deduct 2% for every year you don't work. We are waiting to see what happens to someone we know who NEVER worked when they become 65...

[dima_76557]

You've paid into it with your sweat and blood! And now you can look forward to a comfortable old age. How sweet it is...

In many countries, this is already not true. I was told by someone who is supposed to know that the "financists" all over the world have created such a mess, that the people that are now young and working are already paying for the PREVIOUS generation and will be left with nothing at all for themselves when they get old unless their children support them.

[outin]

Yeah you can build a roof out of your sheet music and live inside the piano

I'll better get a long grand so there will be space to entertain

[outin]

It's nice to hear that one EU country is keeping its promises. Some (unmentioned) deduct 2% for every year you don't work. We are waiting to see what happens to someone we know who NEVER worked when they become 65...

Of course the pensions have been and will be cut here too, but there are other benefits... one just has to know how the system works and it's possible to avoid working and still don't need to starve. I see more and more young people who are not into material things the way the previous generations were, so have little interest to pursue a career. And the government trying to find ways to activate them, while there is not enough work available for those who want to work. We'll see what happens in the next 10 years, much depends on the political climate.

There are no guarantees in life, except that it will end sooner or later. That's why I tend not to worry about the future

[oxy60]

Of course the pensions have been and will be cut here too, but there are other benefits... one just has to know how the system works and it's possible to avoid working and still don't need to starve. I see more and more young people who are not into material things the way the previous generations were, so have little interest to pursue a career. And the government trying to find ways to activate them, while there is not enough work available for those who want to work. We'll see what happens in the next 10 years, much depends on the political climate.

There are no guarantees in life, except that it will end sooner or later. That's why I tend not to worry about the future

Everything will be just fine as long as those benefits come from taxes. Like a private household, the problem will arise when loans are needed to pay current expenses (benefits to the unemployed).

For you, try to enjoy life and touch the keyboard everyday...

[outin]

For you, try to enjoy life and touch the keyboard everyday...

I certainly will

[countrymath]

Thats an interesting point you have. I passed through the same thing a few months ago. Actually, I did it... I became a "professional musician" (or whatever), but without quiting my job. My parents where against it also, but I insisted on this "dream" I had. I tought I would be happy if I worked with music, even having a low-budget life... i`ve never been so wrong. The biggest problem on working with music (or any other hobby-work swap)? The OBLIGATION. Once I started earning money with what I loved, I had an obligation of doing things 100% right, playing music I didnt like to people I didnt like. I started to have a deadline for things I didnt have a deadline. So, to make a story short: Once I started earning money from something I loved to do, I lost all the joy and the fun of it. Fortunately, I decided to quit playing piano for money (2 weeks ago). I had lost all the joy I had for music, but I feel im recovering it.

Trust me, it doesnt worth.

[oxy60]

Thats an interesting point you have. I passed through the same thing a few months ago. Actually, I did it... I became a "professional musician" (or whatever), but without quiting my job. My parents where against it also, but I insisted on this "dream" I had. I tought I would be happy if I worked with music, even having a low-budget life... i`ve never been so wrong. The biggest problem on working with music (or any other hobby-work swap)? The OBLIGATION. Once I started earning money with what I loved, I had an obligation of doing things 100% right, playing music I didnt like to people I didnt like. I started to have a deadline for things I didnt have a deadline. So, to make a story short: Once I started earning money from something I loved to do, I lost all the joy and the fun of it. Fortunately, I decided to quit playing piano for money (2 weeks ago). I had lost all the joy I had for music, but I feel im recovering it.

Trust me, it doesnt worth.

Well. there you have it. The commitment to your work, and loving what you do to make money is all important.

[indianajo]

Engineering degrees have a very short value.  If in about ten years, you are not in engineering management, you are not very employable as an engineer.  Companies have gotten very specific about the skills they want, and if you are not experienced in the latest revision of the software tool or mathmatical model of the moment, a fortune 500 company will import someone from a third world country who has a nice fresh degree in exactly that.  
I personally don't see the value in music performance degrees.  I've worked my way up from grade 7 pieces maybe as a teenager when I quit taking lessons, to grade 10 now, just by practicing and listening to the CD or LP of how it is supposed to sound. Grades are approximate, based on what I see in the amazon sale list, the whole grade system was invented after I quit taking lessons.    
And although with a physics degree I am totally unemployable now except as a retail clerk, it doesn't matter.  (My immune system is too fragile to retrain in medicine and hang around hospitals).   I socked enough money away when I was a hot property, that I worked sub professional (maintenance mechanic) for 10 years after the Fortune 500 company replaced me  then when that got too dangerous in the recession, I quit working at 58.  I'm not even going to take Social Security until my full retirement age; I'm making enough with the investments to live modestly without it.  And I'm looking around for a piano duet partner or a band that needs a keyboard player (pop classics) who is a bit green but able to stay up as late as necessary, now without having to be a certain place 14 hours a day.  The kid that took over part of my engineering job, was working 110 hours a week for his salary, last I heard .  He has a master's degree in engineering, a six sigma black belt certificate, a wife and baby, 2 newish cars, a company approved house in a nice neighborhood the company would sell for him if he had to change locations, and was probably $xxxxxx in debt when I was laid off. HaHaHaHaHaHaHa!  Who's the freeman?  I'm living on less than 4% of my net worth.  
So forget your mother, Produce wealth IMHO when your degree is fashionable, and take up a second career when the economy is crashing. Not while the economy is on the way up like now.  If you save enough, maybe you can start a business or go to charity work when the lords of finance decide your degree is rancid meat past its freshness date.
Just my opinion. I have a lot of ancestors that made it into their nineties; I'm looking forward to a long and creative retirement. If all your ancestors had heart attacks or cancer at age 53, it sort of changes one's  plan for life.