Piano excersices books?

[dimwadepenga]

Hi there, everyone. I just registered. I'm 19, I study Singing and I'm learning piano by myself (I started a year ago).

I wanted to know if there's any book to reach virtuosity other than Hanon's. I mean, some antithetic method, or just with a different focus, if you know what I mean.

Well, that's all. Thanks a lot in advance. Cheers!
Federico

[outin]

Hi there, everyone. I just registered. I'm 19, I study Singing and I'm learning piano by myself (I started a year ago).

I wanted to know if there's any book to reach virtuosity other than Hanon's. I mean, some antithetic method, or just with a different focus, if you know what I mean.

I sincerely doubt there's a book to reach virtuosity (Hanon or other), if there is I'd like to know
Efficient practice for many years and a good teacher would be more likely to work.

[abacaba]

Czerny - all the Czernys.

[j_menz]

Czerny - all the Czernys.

Meaning Carl and.... and.... ummm....? 

[ajspiano]

Meaning Carl and.... and.... ummm....? 

I would assume the poster is referring to Carl's various works as being different sets of exercises.

[bronnestam]

I recommend Bach's Inventions. Far better music than Hanon ... I mean, you can perform with them as well as learning from them.
You can get the sheet music for free here at pianostreet.

[j_menz]

I would assume the poster is referring to Carl's various works as being different sets of exercises.

But most of Carl's works aren't sets of exercises. 

[rmbarbosa]

If you like exercises, you may wish to have a look to the exercises of Liszt and experiment also the "gradus ad parnassum" (much better then Czerny).

I myself do prefer to play real music and - when I feel a technical dificulty - to do some exercises specifically related to that dificulty.

But the most wonderful colletion of "exercises" is ... J.S. Bach. First. the small preludes, after the two voices inventions, simphonies, french suites, english suites, wtc, in this order.

If one can play Bach, one can play everything.

[ajspiano]

But most of Carl's works aren't sets of exercises. 

Do I really need to tell you that there is more than 1 opus that could be reasonably considered "exercises".. or at least progressive etudes.

[ajspiano]

I wanted to know if there's any book to reach virtuosity other than Hanon's. I mean, some antithetic method, or just with a different focus, if you know what I mean.

Firstly, hanon is not going to make you a virtuoso.. however, a set of studies that was written with an opposing method/focus (and at your level or a touch above) is going to be the above mentioned bach inventions. With the added kicker that the motifs/figures in the pieces will replace something like 95% of hanon and you can leave that alone altogether.

If the inventions are too tough for you check out the notebook for anna magdelena bach, and the small preludes (also bach).

[j_menz]

Do I really need to tell you that there is more than 1 opus that could be reasonably considered "exercises".. or at least progressive etudes.

You mean Opp. 139, 200, 261, 299, 335, 337, 400, 599, 636, 718, 740, 777, 821, 823, 838 and 849.

I avoid them like the plague, except Op 400.

[ajspiano]

except Op 400.

While perhaps valid here your opinion on repertoire in general is clearly a biased one.

Have you actually memorized all the numbers or did you go to Wikipedia? You seem a little knowledgeable for someone who avoids them..  perhaps your neighbours throw their unwanted czerny scores at your house when they get sick of fugues?

[j_menz]

While perhaps valid here your opinion on repertoire in general is clearly a biased one.

Isn't everyone's? 

Have you actually memorized all the numbers or did you go to Wikipedia? You seem a little knowledgeable for someone who avoids them..  perhaps your neighbours throw their unwanted czerny scores at your house when they get sick of fugues?

How could I avoid them if I didn't know what they were among the nearly 900 opuses?

(Actually, I own a fair few of them, which I keep in a box buried in my garage)

And I'm afraid the concept of being sick of fugues is something my brain just won't compute. Surely were this to happen (shudder) they would book themselves in for therapy.

[ajspiano]

Isn't everyone's? 

Mine is not...  or atleast its much more encompassing than the average.

How could I avoid them if I didn't know what they were among the nearly 900 opuses?
(Actually, I own a fair few of them, which I keep in a box buried in my garage)

I have most of them too.. but I keep them on display to students as an intimidation tactic. Practice well and I won't demand that you learn any czerny..   ..to be honest though I occasionally set some of the EASY as hell czerny as introductory sight reading material.. 

And I'm afraid the concept of being sick of fugues is something my brain just won't compute. Surely were this to happen (shudder) they would book themselves in for therapy.

I'd hate for you to meet the few people I've come across who are sick of instrumental music altogether..  yet have only listened to it for about 30 seconds total in their life.

[j_menz]

or at least its much more encompassing than the average.

So is mine. So would be quite a few people around here. That doesn't sopt it being eccentric, and indeed probably fosters such.

I have most of them too.. but I keep them on display to students as an intimidation tactic. Practice well and I won't demand that you learn any czerny..   ..to be honest though I occasionally set some of the EASY as hell czerny as introductory sight reading material.. 

You could try setting them some of his actual music instead. He wrote plenty of it, and it isn't bad.

I'd hate for you to meet the few people I've come across who are sick of instrumental music altogether..  yet have only listened to it for about 30 seconds total in their life.

Except they also quite like the tune in that ad or sports show.

[ajspiano]

You could try setting them some of his actual music instead. He wrote plenty of it, and it isn't bad.

Make a suggestion - honestly I'm not that familiar with czerny, my own teacher never assigned me any at all so I only know what I've personally dug around in.. as in played once through (which was enough) the more popular etudes books I guess.

The stuff I actually use in teaching is some of the early examples out of op 823 with specific students, as a reading tool (along with other similar things from other composers, or that I've written)... Because it introduces rhythmic elements gradually and fosters being able to read 2 lines of rhythm at once..  minims against minims, crotchets against minims.. quavers/crotchets against crotchets etc.

[j_menz]

Make a suggestion

Can't think of anything for your teaching purposes (what I know is probably too difficult for that) but for your own edification, try his nocturnes, the later Sonatas and some of his sets of Variations.  There's quite a lot of them on IMSLP. He's actually pretty good.

And for anyone (else) who's ploughed through years of the exercises, they'll be the perfect reward as he uses the techniques he teaches!

[ajspiano]

He's actually pretty good.

He did have a pretty good teacher..

I actually think most of the etudes, while pretty boring to play are decent teaching tools if assigned with the right purpose and discussed in the right way..  but it takes a student with the right kind and level of interest. They aren't a terrible introduction into some elements compositional craft - because they are so simplified compared to some music you can VERY clearly see how he's stringing patterns together, and use of common chord progressions etc. It would be easy to get someone to start creating their own 'exercises' and then suggest adding some variations to create something more musical and less theoretically structured.

And czerny would probably be a hell of a lot more interesting if the go home instruction wasn't "play this over and over", but rather "make music out of similar ideas"..  which would result in a similar level of repetition of a basic figure, but it would be far more interesting and result in a more real musical development.

You know, if you took a nicer bit of repertoire such as a clementi sonatina, combined it with one of the shorter cznery's that featured the use of similar figures, and said learn the the sonatina as written.. and combine the musical variations found in the clementi with the simpler and easily distinguished structural components of the cznery (which more clearly show you how to vary a motif modally for example) to make your own short sonatina movement you might end up with some real progress - and without driving anyone mad.

....

Will take a look at the nocturnes etc. over the weekend.

[teran]

Am I a freak for actually finding Hanon exercises entertaining and cute?

[patrickd]

Am I a freak for actually finding Hanon exercises entertaining and cute?

No way, Hanon is awesome.

[stephenv]

not knowing what you have studied re: exercises:  I would stongly suggest that you explore the technical works written by Guy Maier.  Two in particular you may be able to find:  Thinking Fingers Books 1 & 2 by Maier and Bradshaw.  Be aware that Maier was a master MUSICIAN and that was his main goal and focus in his teaching, to encourage and promote the development of Musical Playing...rahter than pure speed and "empty passagework" (Clara Schumann's words)

Like Maier, I would encourage you to concentrate on becoming the best MUSICIAN you can become.   Maier had this to say about Czerny etudes and exercises:  "Czerny is what you make him.  You can turn him into a dullard, an utterly unmusical rogue, or put him to work as the co-ordinator and facilitator of almost all "pure" technic.  A careful seslection of his studies will supply the necessary application of scale, arpeggio., chord, octave, and double-note technic through concetrated, stimulating music." 

Dr. Maier also mentioned the work of Dohnanyi:  Essential Finger Excercises for obtaining a sure piano technique.  These exercises are pretty intense and challengning.  If  you have a teacher you might ask about them.   Good luck in your development as a musician.  Studying singing provides a fantastic way to becoming the musician I'm talking about!  Best of luck.