R. Wagner

[chopin2015]

I want. What's for piano? A virtuosic transcription? Recommend?  

[j_menz]

Firstly, he did write a relatively small number of pieces for piano. These are mostly early works, and are not generally reflective of the Wagner you might know - but in them do lie some of the seeds. There is a collected edition published by Dover which is reasonably priced, and some of the pieces are available on IMSLP.

Then, there are the various transcriptions of his work. This tends to be largely of his operatic works, and is much more the Wagner you probably know.

The best of them are by Liszt, Tausig, Brassin, Moszkowski and Gould.  The Gould is in print and can be purchased through most music shops online; the others are largely on IMSLP, though some are in print as well. The Liszt ones are in a Dover edition, and the Tausig Ride of the Valkyries is published by Schott (available only through the German Amazon site, as far as I can tell).

Most of them are in the difficult to nightmarish range.

[chopin2015]

[/youtube]

This is...supreme. I can't find the words to admit what this is about.

[chopin2015]

Firstly, he did write a relatively small number of pieces for piano. These are mostly early works, and are not generally reflective of the Wagner you might know - but in them do lie some of the seeds. There is a collected edition published by Dover which is reasonably priced, and some of the pieces are available on IMSLP.

Then, there are the various transcriptions of his work. This tends to be largely of his operatic works, and is much more the Wagner you probably know.

The best of them are by Liszt, Tausig, Brassin, Moszkowski and Gould.  The Gould is in print and can be purchased through most music shops online; the others are largely on IMSLP, though some are in print as well. The Liszt ones are in a Dover edition, and the Tausig Ride of the Valkyries is published by Schott (available only through the German Amazon site, as far as I can tell).

Most of them are in the difficult to nightmarish range.

Do you know anything about how or why one may transcribe a work? I am fascinated! Wagner was...too hot to handle in the movie song that never ends. I want to be a part of that...wowzaa

[j_menz]

This is...supreme. I can't find the words to admit what this is about.

Ahh... to understand that, you need to watch, or at least listen to, the whole opera. It's from Tristan and Isolde, and there should be some complete ones on YT - be warned, though, it's pretty long.

[j_menz]

Do you know anything about how or why one may transcribe a work? I am fascinated! Wagner was...too hot to handle in the movie song that never ends. I want to be a part of that...wowzaa

There's some further transcriptions to listen to here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=50017.msg545030#msg545030

It's Wagner's bicentenary on the 22nd, so now is a great time to get some under your belt.

If you're feeling particularly brave, spend the weekend listening to the complete Ring. It's 15 hours well spent. Really.

[chopin2015]

Ahh... to understand that, you need to watch, or at least listen to, the whole opera. It's from Tristan and Isolde, and there should be some complete ones on YT - be warned, though, it's pretty long.

I...it's so...dark. I know it shouldn't be, but I can't change the world. I'd like to transcribe Liszt, actually...

[chopin2015]

There's some further transcriptions to listen to here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=50017.msg545030#msg545030

It's Wagner's bicentenary on the 22nd, so now is a great time to get some under your belt.

If you're feeling particularly brave, spend the weekend listening to the complete Ring. It's 15 hours well spent. Really.

Awesome! Good thread, am looking over starting NOW.

I'm happy I won't be missing this. I may transcribe. I love this.

[j_menz]

I...it's so...dark. I know it shouldn't be, but I can't change the world.

It most certainly should be dark. You need to at least read up on the opera synopsis.

The Liebestod is the song Isolde sings over the body of her lover Tristan as the expression and vehicle of her final consummation of their love in her death. Dark, tragic, ecstatic and profound.

It's actually considered by opera buffs to be a cheat to just listen to it in isolation. "You have to earn your Liebestod" is the call. And there's some truth to it. The same motif has been included throughout the opera, but never resolves musically until it does so here. The effect is profound here, but spectacular in context.

[j_menz]

This is one of my favourite renditions of the original:

[thalbergmad]

Liszt/Wagner is difficult, Tausig even more, Brassin worse and Stradal impossible.

Thal

[evitaevita]

[/youtube]

This is...supreme. I can't find the words to admit what this is about.

Oh! Interesting.
That's reaaaaaaaally nice!

[chopin2015]

Could anyone recommend a piece that is not for piano but is beautiful/heartbreaking, maybe violent and angry? Mostly am interested in something that can be interpreted as sad and beautiful. Maybe just crazy, that's fine too. That, and/or a short piece (under 30 mins per performance).

Thank you!!

[j_menz]

Could anyone recommend a piece that is not for piano but is beautiful/heartbreaking, maybe violent and angry? Mostly am interested in something that can be interpreted as sad and beautiful. Maybe just crazy, that's fine too. That, and/or a short piece (under 30 mins per performance).

Thank you!!

Big field, but:

[chopin2015]

Big field, but:

Fantastic! I will prepare a partial or complete transcription that I will share, by his bicentennial. Thank you sooo much for your help!

[j_menz]

Fantastic! I will prepare a partial or complete transcription that I will share, by his bicentennial. Thank you sooo much for your help!

Oh, you wanted something by Wagner. Ignore the above, it's by Samuel Barber (whose bicentennial is quite some time off)

[j_menz]

Try this instead:

[j_menz]

Though I should note that there is already a transcription by Ferruccio Bussoni:

Score attached.

[chopin2015]

Oh, you wanted something by Wagner. Ignore the above, it's by Samuel Barber (whose bicentennial is quite some time off)

Haha! I found that it wasn't by Wags just now. Hey, what about these lost works of his? Where can I find op numbers or wwv numbers or archives? I am fixing to give birth over here...figuratively speaking....

[chopin2015]

How about Wagner's writings on Faust?

[j_menz]

Haha! I found that it wasn't by Wags just now. Hey, what about these lost works of his? Where can I find op numbers or wwv numbers or archives? I am fixing to give birth over here...figuratively speaking....

Wikipedia has a complete list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Richard_Wagner

Many of them are in IMSLP as well.

How about Wagner's writings on Faust?

The only one I know of is:

[j_menz]

Ah, I forgot the Faust Lieder (though in my defence, I regard them as eminently forgettable):

If you are interested, they're all linked from here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Faust+Lieder+Wagner&oq=Faust+Lieder+Wagner&gs_l=youtube.3...148100.152195.0.152374.13.13.0.0.0.0.244.1664.5j6j2.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.6j3pkukyGKs

Score on IMSLP here: https://imslp.org/wiki/7_Kompositionen_zu_Goethes_Faust,_WWV_15_(Wagner,_Richard)

[chopin2015]

True, forgettable. 

I like Liszt's mephisto valse, and I would like something that can set the kind of mood like in the slow, pretty sections.

How much editing do you think is ok to do with a score? I need to read up on the technicalities before I get too artistic...

Here is a list I was looking through:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Richard_Wagner

[j_menz]

How much editing do you think is ok to do with a score? I need to read up on the technicalities before I get too artistic...

Wagner remained friends with Carl Tausig and also his (Wagner's) father in law, Liszt, after their transcriptions of his works, and at times both took considerable liberties.  Wagner himself did a transcription of Beethoven's 9th symphony, though I have never heard it so can't say how faithful he was.

The tradition of the time was pretty much anything goes subject always to the end result being effective. I'd say the same still applies.

[chopin2015]

Wagner remained friends with Carl Tausig and also his (Wagner's) father in law, Liszt, after their transcriptions of his works, and at times both took considerable liberties.  Wagner himself did a transcription of Beethoven's 9th symphony, though I have never heard it so can't say how faithful he was.

The tradition of the time was pretty much anything goes subject always to the end result being effective. I'd say the same still applies.

What do you mean subject, time...end...? Anything goes or no?

[chopin2015]

Btw, I decided I am doing overture of das liebesverbot/Wagner

[j_menz]

Btw, I decided I am doing overture of das liebesverbot/Wagner

Good grief, why? 

A comedy by Wagner!! Gah!!

What do you mean subject, time...end...? Anything goes or no?

I mean the end justifies the means. So, anything goes if it works.

[chopin2015]

Well...the sad themes weren't sad enough, so I'm gonna write something based on the string arrangement in this! It's pretty...

What's the difference between arrangement and transcription! 

[j_menz]

What's the difference between arrangement and transcription! 

The terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but a transcription is a rescoring of a piece for a different instrument and an arrangement is a reworking of a piece for the same forces with greater or lesser changes. If the changes are considerable, it becomes a paraphrase (which can also be a transcription).  Don't sweat it too much. If you call it a paraphrase then, unless you have kept strictly to the original, nobody can complain.