How many here know rachmaninov piano concerto 3?

[hunterb]

Hello.

The great rachmaninov piano concerto 3 recently came to my attention after listening to it many times over, and I'm just curious to know if there are any people here who can actually play it with comfort? if so, how long did it take for you to learn it?

greetings

[thalbergmad]

Johnathan Powell is a member here and he has performed this work.

No idea how long it took him, but I doubt if it was a "strain".

I would have thought it was beyond most of us here, as we would not be wasting time on a forum if we had the ability required to play it.

Thal

[iansinclair]

I would have thought it was beyond most of us here, as we would not be wasting time on a forum if we had the ability required to play it.

Thal

How right you are... although I fiddle, mostly with lamentable results, with bits of it...

[nanabush]

Ya those concerti are monsters.  For my jury last year, part of the requirement was a concerto movement, and my teacher suggested the first movement of Rach 2 because I could 'palm' the opening chords.  Good lord, I've never busted my ass so hard for a piece.  I can only imagine the amount of work it would take to prepare the entire 3rd concerto...but from what I've noticed over the years, the people who do it justice are people who do not seem obsessive or phased by the technical demands of the piece.  They seem focused on making it speak rather than worrying about how difficult it will be.  But... there aren't too many pianists like that!  There are so many videos on youtube of people playing these pieces at a so-so level (which is probably how I played it last year), but damn... some recording are freaking incredible

[le_poete_mourant]

Hello.

The great rachmaninov piano concerto 3 recently came to my attention after listening to it many times over, and I'm just curious to know if there are any people here who can actually play it with comfort? if so, how long did it take for you to learn it?

greetings

I think there are many people who can play this with 'comfort' -- that is not to say that it isn't a damn lot of energy and difficulty.  But, the wonderful thing about this piece is that it is incredibly pianistic -- I think perhaps more so than No. 2.  Rachmaninov clearly wrote it for himself and it is evidence of what a monster technique he had.  But there aren't really many moments in the piece, to my mind at least, that don't fit the hand very naturally, even for those of us who don't have hands as huge as Rachmaninov's hands.  Everything about it can be broken down in a very logical technical approach.  It is written for pianists. It's difficult, but nothing in the entire piece is awkward or uncomfortable.  The problem is if you go through and learn it without figuring out how to facilitate it, make it comfortable, slowly and carefully, it just won't work.  I suggest thinking of it like a bunch of etudes: try to isolate the technical problems in each section and figure out the best way to make them feel natural.  It is incredible piano writing.

Don't worry about how long it takes to learn it.  Even once you've learned all the notes, it still will be a very long process to actually internalizing and making this piece organic to yourself.  It is, however, a long-term project for most people (although I believe Jean-Yves Thibaudet learned it in about 3 weeks; that's definitely not normal and impossible for us mortals).  You absolutely must not rush the learning process, because that will in the long run make things much more difficult.   

[rachmaninoff_forever]

You know,
Lugansky learned it in 3 days.

[danhuyle]

I know a pianist who performed Rach 3 so comfortably that he was able to do a "last minute performance" with no rehearsal and received a standing ovation and it was back in 2004.

Surprisingly I met the guy at the place I work and asked him how long it took him to learn this concerto and his response was this.

It took him one month to learn it. That means practicing ONLY Rach 3 for that entire month and nothing else.

Your call how you want to do it.

[dima_76557]

When a pianist backs out of Rachmaninov 3 here in Moscow at the last minute, there's always another one present in the hall who can replace him/her without rehearsal and still give a more than average performance.

[awesom_o]

I know it very well.

[hunterb]

awesom_o could you please record your playing of it? that would be very interesting to watch!

[le_poete_mourant]

When a pianist backs out of Rachmaninov 3 here in Moscow at the last minute, there's always another one present in the hall who can replace him/her without rehearsal and still give a more than average performance.

ridiculous.

[ajspiano]

ridiculous.

might be ridiculous to say its always a possibility,  but it has happened at least once.

.....

I know the concerto in pieces. Its a big project that I've been giving far less than the required dedication for a while.

[awesom_o]

awesom_o could you please record your playing of it? that would be very interesting to watch!

You'll just have to wait for my girlfriend and I to record the entire set. She'll do 1 and 4, and I'll do 2 and 3.

If you really can't wait, I might be able to dig up an old video of a rehearsal from several years ago and send you a link to it by pm. My playing has changed a fair bit since then, and I don't play the concerto frequently.

I worked on it like a dog all throughout my undergrad degree. It really is as hard as they say it is, this concerto. Perhaps harder. To play it truly exceptionally.

[ajspiano]

I worked on it like a dog all throughout my undergrad degree.

And them some I would suspect..   a bit like a pack of huskies crossing the arctic (repeatedly for the duration of an undergrad degree) perhaps.

...

Not that I'm anywhere near having completed it, but its pays off I think. The enormity of it, and how it forces you to evaluate certain processes and learning efficiency meant that for me - properly difficult but shorter works, while still a challenge are psychologically speaking a walk in the park.

.....

Robert Henry is a member here and has the rach 3 under his belt..

its in the media player  widget on his website.. https://roberthenry.org/

[awesom_o]

And them some I would suspect..   a bit like a pack of huskies crossing the arctic (repeatedly for the duration of an undergrad degree) perhaps.

...

Not that I'm anywhere near having completed it, but its pays off I think. The enormity of it, and how it forces you to evaluate certain processes and learning efficiency meant that for me - properly difficult but shorter works, while still a challenge are psychologically speaking a walk in the park.

Absolutely! I had already started learning it a year before starting my undergrad. Keep in mind I had already performed the 2nd Concerto several times before even starting the 3rd. During the time I was working on the 3rd Concerto, I also learned and performed the original version of the 2nd Sonata and several of the Etudes-Tableaux.

Since then I've  mainly been working on the 1st Sonata and several other small pieces of Rachmaninov which I'd like to have in my repertoire. I work on the Concerto no. 3 several times a year still-it gets better every time, but there's still a fair bit of work to do before the recording.

So all of that other Rachmaninoov I've played and I'm STILL not 'finished' the D minor Concerto!

It really is a monster.

[ajspiano]

I doubt that the human life span is enough time to be 'finished' with it.. unless perhaps you played nothing but the concerto for the duration of your life..

[awesom_o]

Well, everything really is a work in progress in this art... but eventually you get to a certain point with a piece where you're happy with it, your audience is happy with it, and you just move on to something else as you've reached a point where you've encountered the law of diminishing returns as far as practicing it any more. You just need to let it sit in stasis in your mind while you grow as an artist.

[ajspiano]

Well, everything really is a work in progress in this art... but eventually you get to a certain point with a piece where you're happy with it, your audience is happy with it, and you just move on to something else as you've reached a point where you've encountered the law of diminishing returns as far as practicing it any more. You just need to let it sit in stasis in your mind while you grow as an artist.

Well said.

I think my perspective probably comes out of the fact that you can feel that kind of never ending interpretive growth over time with something as musically simple as an etude, and in that context it can still take significant time to settle on an 'ideal' interpretation (or several ideal ones )

Works such as concertos, where there is such length to the piece, and the interaction with an orchestra suggest to me an almost impossibility to find/settle on a particular interpretation allowing only for an in the moment interpretation. Obviously that is the beauty of it to a degree, but I think for that reason I would never be satisfied with a performance.. Perhaps just because the emotion and success of it is felt through playing it, much more so than it ever is through listening to it - at least it is for me.

And also precious few of us will ever have enough time with a competent enough orchestra to really dig into specifics of interpretation as per the pianists preference.

[dima_76557]

ridiculous.

It is only ridiculous if one assumes that:
1) Rachmaninov is programmed every day in concerts here in Moscow
2) pianists back out of playing it all the time here in Moscow
which is not what I said.
P.S.: As a matter of fact, Gavrilov planned such a program the end of last year and walked out 5 minutes before it was supposed to start. Alexander Ghindin, who happened to be in the hall, successfully replaced him, and I'm quite sure he was not the only one present there who could have done it.

[gvans]

Gavrilov planned such a program the end of last year and walked out 5 minutes before it was supposed to start. Alexander Ghindin, who happened to be in the hall, successfully replaced him.

Too cool!

If I was settled in to hear a concert, I'd also have a full belly and a drink or two on board...it wouldn't be easy jumping up on stage with no warning. I might burp or something.

[j_menz]

I might burp or something.

Don't sweat it. They'd never hear it over the coughing, talking and general mayhem.

Or maybe Moscow audiences are better behaved.

[le_poete_mourant]

It is only ridiculous if one assumes that:
1) Rachmaninov is programmed every day in concerts here in Moscow
2) pianists back out of playing it all the time here in Moscow
which is not what I said.
P.S.: As a matter of fact, Gavrilov planned such a program the end of last year and walked out 5 minutes before it was supposed to start. Alexander Ghindin, who happened to be in the hall, successfully replaced him, and I'm quite sure he was not the only one present there who could have done it.

Sounds a bit like ambulance chasing to me.  And good lord, what kind of professional backs out 5 minutes before a concert? 

[awesom_o]

Well, this one time Gavrilov did.

Are you familiar with the recordings of Andrei Gavrilov?

He's quite insane.

[symphonicdance]

I had once heard Gavrilov playing Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini.  Not so good.  I thought he was playing on his own and the orchestra was trying to catch him up.  His encore piece of Prokofiev's Suggestion Diabolique, however, was amazing.

[symphonicdance]

To OP : You are suggested to youtube to watch the Jorge Bolet masterclass series on Rach 3.  Quite good.

[hunterb]

thanks for the replies folks!

I wonder how many on earth who can play this really well..hundreds? thousands? what do you think? it seems to be very few.

[awesom_o]

My guess would be that tens of thousands have studied it enough to play a few passages here and there, but only a few at most REALLY have the piece 'in their fingers' as the saying goes.