Theory mystifies me

[bernadette60614]

I can sightread easily.

Practice with diligence.

Listen to music of all types and enjoy it all, as well.

However, anything related to theory (something as rudimentary as key signatures) doesn't 'stick" in my mind.

Anyone else like this? Is this something I need to focus on to be a true pianist?

[hfmadopter]

Theory is something you need to understand, to perform rather automatically with it. It's not that you need to be able to quote theory, unless you are teaching it or otherwise explaining it without sounding as if you don't know it. On the other hand, if you know it you can probably talk about it fairly freely as well. It's just that in practice you don't have it fresh on your mind, you use it though.

Does that make any sense ? It sounds ridiculous, it's a good thing I know what I mean to say !!

[lilla]

When you study a piece of music,  you should use your knowledge of theory to analyze the piece before playing.  Analysis also helps memory, phrasing, articulation -- in total, a better performance.  Analyzing music includes observing the key and looking for accidentals; identifying chords and looking for chord progressions.  Observing if the accidentals are pulling you to a dominant scale, related or parallel minor scale.  Look for phrasing, staccatos, dynamic marks.  How does it all work together to produce the desired effect.  Observe hand moves.  Tricky rhythms.  Look for motifs and be certain you can play them competently before playing the entire piece.  I would suggest  that you look through a standard theory book, perhaps just the table of contents to see if you are familiar with the concepts.  If not, you should perhaps start working through a theory course, such as, Snell Fundamentals of Piano Theory.  Just for discussion, here's the brief TOC for Snell Theory Level Three: Time Sigs, Rhythm 16ths, triplets; Major sharp and flat keys, Minor key forms, Circle of 5ths, Intervals of Scale, Triads (Major, Minor, Augmented, Diminished), Primary Triads, Cadences (Authentic, Plagal, Half), Dominant 7th Chords (inversions, harmonizing, transposing), Music Symbols, Structure and Form, Musical History Periods.   Just an example.  A general course of piano lessons includes all of these.

[outin]

However, anything related to theory (something as rudimentary as key signatures) doesn't 'stick" in my mind.

Anyone else like this?

Kind of, I can understand the theory when I read it, but I can never remember all the concepts and rules... I can draw the circle of fifths since there are only a couple of rules to remember and the rest can be figured out as I go, but I never learn the order accidentals go into the clefs...I can hear the differences on chord degrees and understand their purpose for composition, but I just cannot remember the latin names that go with them...I know the names of the basic intervals but have not been able to stick in my head their quality...and so on...I guess I just don't find music theory interesting enough...In general I have trouble remembering details even though I get the general picture...

[j_menz]

I can draw the circle of fifths since there are only a couple of rules to remember and the rest can be figured out as I go, but I never learn the order accidentals go into the clefs

I know the order of accidentals all the way into triple sharps/flats, but couldn't write the circle of fifths without some serious brainwork - I know the rules, but don't have it memorised at all.(I also have a copy printed out to cheat off as required.)

When you study a piece of music,  you should use your knowledge of theory to analyze the piece before playing.  Analysis also helps memory, phrasing, articulation -- in total, a better performance.  Analyzing music includes observing the key and looking for accidentals; identifying chords and looking for chord progressions.  Observing if the accidentals are pulling you to a dominant scale, related or parallel minor scale.  Look for phrasing, staccatos, dynamic marks.  How does it all work together to produce the desired effect.  Observe hand moves.  Tricky rhythms.  Look for motifs and be certain you can play them competently before playing the entire piece. 

I just play it a few times.

[ajspiano]

I know the order of accidentals all the way into triple sharps/flats, but couldn't write the circle of fifths without some serious brainwork..

Start on F, use the order of the sharps in keys sigs. 

Or you know, start with no sharps, and identify the key.. add one sharp, name the key.. continue..

[lighthand045]

Start on F, use the order of the sharps in keys sigs. 

Or you know, start with no sharps, and identify the key.. add one sharp, name the key.. continue..

On the treble clef, I write the F and G on the lower lines of the staff.

In fact i once wrote an experimental piece written on G sharp major...

[j_menz]

Start on F, use the order of the sharps in keys sigs. 

I'd actually never noticed that. 

It gives some rather odd enharmonics for Ab Eb and Bb major, but I can cope. Even odder ones in the minors (which goes counterclockwise?).

[ajspiano]

I'd actually never noticed that. 

It gives some rather odd enharmonics for Ab Eb and Bb major, but I can cope. Even odder ones in the minors (which goes counterclockwise?).

The circle of 5ths moves in 4ths if you go the other way, for this you use the flat key sigs.

So you start at the top, and do half in one direction and half in the other..

Not that you personally need to write out a circle of 5ths..  just saying, you do know it.

[j_menz]

Not that you personally need to write out a circle of 5ths..

Of course not. I got one off the internet. It has pretty colours and everything. 

It's not much help with Alkan, though! 

[outin]

I know the order of accidentals all the way into triple sharps/flats, but couldn't write the circle of fifths without some serious brainwork - I know the rules, but don't have it memorised at all.(I also have a copy printed out to cheat off as required.)

I have not figured out any use for it yet, but I thought it's something I should be able to do. Yes, it does require brainwork...I actually  have to visualize and count the piano keys (5ths or 4ths and going from major to minor or the other way round) in my head when figuring out the next key since I cannot visualize notes on clefs properly or remember the intervals...

[chopin2015]

Try composing! 

[outin]

I have a feeling that my compositions would be rather atonal... 

[chopin2015]

I have a feeling that my compositions would be rather atonal... 

Rofl! That is so cool!   

[hfmadopter]

I guess I'm supposed to know the circle of fifths, that's too bad ! Oh it was taught to me, I even had to recite it and demonstrate it back to my teacher so long ago. I did it, I wrote it out, I played it, I recited it all for the teacher. Today I know it if I see it and I undoubtedly use it. I couldn't demonstrate it sitting here right now if my life depended on it though ! I don't recall ever being conscious of it once I got past it in my classes. It was just one of those things I had to do.

Maybe I should download one of those suckers like jmenz has done ! It will look nice hanging around the house.