440 hz vs 432 hz

[lighthand045]

What do you think it should be standard in tuning: 432hz or 440hz?

Apparently it seems that 432 hz it's more natural and connected to life; 440hz makes you tense and everything isn't natural.

What do you think about this, it's true or mysticism?

How would you prefer to have tuned your piano, in 432 hz or 440hz?

I would like it to be 432hz even if my perfect pitch is set to 440.

[j_menz]

431.4159 26535 89793 23846 26433 83279 50288 41971 69399 37510 58209 74944 59230 78164 06286 20899 86280 34825 34211 70679 ... Hz

[lighthand045]

431.4159 26535 89793 23846 26433 83279 50288 41971 69399 37510 58209 74944 59230 78164 06286 20899 86280 34825 34211 70679 ... Hz

Nice. Better than the value of pi.

[birba]

 

431.4159 26535 89793 23846 26433 83279 50288 41971 69399 37510 58209 74944 59230 78164 06286 20899 86280 34825 34211 70679 ... Hz

what is THAT all about?!  Come on.  Tell the dense wombat.

[ajspiano]

what is THAT all about?!  Come on.  Tell the dense wombat.

As was said above (in a manner of speaking) - it is Pi.

At least I'm assuming it is based on my knowledge of the first 7 or so decimal places.

[birba]

I hang around with a lot of egg heads.

[j_menz]

I hang around with a lot of egg heads.

 

It's 400 + 10 pi.

Were I a real egghead, i'd have come up with something cleverer.

[perfect_pitch]

Apparently it seems that 432 hz it's more natural and connected to life; 440hz makes you tense and everything isn't natural.

Do you have any research to back up that statement??? In what way is 432Hz more connected to life than 440???

I'm asking as someone else who has perfect pitch, and to me, sound is sound. Granted some keys help portray a differing mood, but I'd like to know why 432Hz is so special???

[birba]

I'd think everything  would sound slightly off-key...

[hfmadopter]

Mystics use this yes ( in chakra alignment and sound healing as a couple of examples), but it also is the earths actual pulse wave ( actually I think it's something more like C# 432 though). I ran into this when trying to research if my Henry F Miller grand piano might have originally been tuned to something around 432 vs 440. A440 wasn't the standard back in 1889 when my piano was built. Something between 420 and 432 was used much more. It wasn't until the world wars came around that the standard of 440 was introduced. Read up on it, there is a lot of information out there on this, like people feel the Nazi's had something to do with it !  And so on and so on and on. All sorts of so on except to be able to find out if my piano was or was not tuned to A432 originally !! I found out everything but that.

Some gigging bands are starting to tune to 432 FWIW. However, I started to look into this because I read about it in my piano tuning book. Since I was getting some harsh resonance out of my Miller I decided to tune it last time (last early winter) to A 432 and it just sounded much better than the previous tuning at A440.

[birba]

Which would explain the "memory" theory of perfect pitch.  People of the 19th century would have "heard" a different do.

[hfmadopter]

Which would explain the "memory" theory of perfect pitch.  People of the 19th century would have "heard" a different do.

Probably so !

Now of course, my little research couldn't just end there. Since then I bought my digital piano, which can be tuned to any frequency I want almost, at the push of a button. I decided that can be 432 as well though. I may want to work on any number of duets against the grand piano with the digital. Planning one already with my grand daughter, though that is a four handed single piano duet. Who knows where this will lead, the digital can play cello, for instance, and 256 other instruments plus 100 drum beats..

[andreslr6]

Do people really believe the 432 myths? I can bet all you want that the people saying that are just doing it to try and find a way into the wallets of everyone.

There was always problems with different tunings (432 was not the only one, it varied from a wide range between towns and countries), the 440 was agreed as a standard for everyone just to make it easier for the entire planet, globalization, there's no conspiracy behind it, it's just humanity thriving for solving problems, so that a Russian violinist doesn't have to change all of his tuning 4hertz down when he has a concert in France and then 10 up when he plays in Germany, etc.

And like perfect_pitch said, as simple as it is, sound is just sound. There's no "better" sound,  just subjective taste, or, like in this case, misinformation trying to take advantage.

This topic reminds me of this episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit, although they don't mention anything about the 440 vs 432, it's somehow related with the misinformation and opportunistic aspects of it, and super entertaining as well .

[Bob]

440 on its way to 442.  I don't think it's going to go down at all.  442 will sound a bit fresher.  I can't see anyone major going down to 432 because it's aligned with the Earth somehow.  People do use historical temperament, etc. and might tune lower. But as a standard? No way.

[andreslr6]

440 on its way to 442.  I don't think it's going to go down at all.  442 will sound a bit fresher.  I can't see anyone major going down to 432 because it's aligned with the Earth somehow.  People do use historical temperament, etc. and might tune lower. But as a standard? No way.

Actually, that's the one a heard about that really sounded legit, and not because of some magical or mystical reasons, but rather that in Vienna they where suggesting A442 for a reason that I can't remember right now, probably a resulting sound quality that benefited an orchestra or something along the lines.

[hfmadopter]

I'd think everything  would sound slightly off-key...

Not really, just when played against instruments that were tuned differently. That's why they created a standard in the first place. 420 even with an instrument played on it's own gets kind of dull though, now you have really moved away from 440 that we are used to hearing. It can be well in tune with itself but rather dull at 420, at least with on my own pianos it sounds that way to me. I don't like it and my grand piano has a hard time with 440, so for me 432 is it for a while. Nothing to do with planetary alignment incidentally, not that I know of anyway ! I think my piano wasn't built to be pulled up there, plain and simple as that. Not to mention it's just very old.

[lighthand045]

Here's the video that got me interested in this:

And some pages about it:

https://armonicosdeconciencia.blogspot.mx/2011/04/cuando-nos-cambiaron-la-frecuencia-de.html
(in spanish)

https://attunedvibrations.com/432hz-healing/

Lennon's Imagine in 432hz:

[Bob]

Is there anything with more science behind it?  New age mysticism and people on yoga mats aren't going to convince me.

Couldn't you say 432 is in tune with the Earth, so 440 is going to pump up the listener just a bit more, ie it's better and gives you more energy.  The other day I listened to a piece of a 440 music and I felt better afterward.  And look at the all the Nazis did -- Small country, lots of energy... They listened to 440 music and almost took over the world. 440 music must be pumping some incredible energy into the listener.  It's no wonder why 442 is being praised now.

On the other hand... Did you ever feel sick or slightly nauseous after listening to music?  It was probably 440 music. Did you ever blow out speakers by turning the volume up too high.  What do you think happens if you 'blow out' your mind with 440 music when 432 is the most natural and in tune with the Earth?  And you've been doing that your whole life.  Why do think people only live so long?  You know speakers can only take so much over-volume until they blow up/die. Do you ever hear a dog howl when hears music?  Probably 440 music again. See?  Even pets can't stand it.  Yet, here we are, listening to 440 music our whole lives.  Hitler... listened to 440 music.  I bet he even wanted 442, too.  And he was nuts, clearly. You don't want to be like Hitler, do you?


Is there any science behind any of it?  We can't hear 8Hz.  Does anything start vibrating more if it's 432 vs. 440?  Does it matter at all?

[oxy60]

All of this changing of "A" only enriches instrument manufacturers because you may not hear 8 hz but such a difference requires a different neck piece on a clarinet. And you don't get them on every street corner!

[Bob]

That's what I heard about string instruments.  If you can the pitch, the instrument is going to have to adjust too.  String tension, etc.

I still don't quite get it.  8 divides evenly into both 432 or 440.  8 times 54 vs. 8 times 55.  What's the difference?  More lower notes fit into 432?

[perfect_pitch]

Here's the video that got me interested in this:

No offense... but personally I think this is all bullshit. Given the video you linked to, I feel no difference emotionally upon hearing both samples. As a man who has a very tuned ear, I seriously doubt there is any scientific evidence to support this. I say this because:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Farmonicosdeconciencia.blogspot.mx%2F2011%2F04%2Fcuando-nos-cambiaron-la-frecuencia-de.html&act=url (in english)

Given the links you posted to, one is in spanish, (which I translated through Google) and despite using the words 'research', it seems to have ABSOLUTELY NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS other than we are natural, wonderful humans who can lighten the darkness in our world and our soul (bollocks).

I quote from the first blog...

The brain and DNA are deeply connected to 432 through the procession of the equinoxes and cosmic frequencies 8 Hz. 

The first physical alteration that we notice when we took a while listening to music, is tiredness, fatigue, wanting to do nothing, and this is because the harmonics of the music does not fit with the vibrational frequency of the human being.

But a Nazi, Joseph Goebbels, the tone frequency introduced "A = 440 hz" in 1939 as the standard set for all musical instruments the world has sung at that frequency since. The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) approved in 1953. This allows people to think and feel a certain way and keep her prisoner in a certain consciousness. 

I see ABSOLUTELY no research, and all the links stating their sources seem to link to badly created web-pages that seem to have NO CREDIBILITY WHATSOEVER!!! Considering the site seems to belong to some random blogger (and knowing that even people who believe in shape-shifting aliens and alien abductions write blogs) I choose not to believe a word in that site at all.

The second site sadly enough:

https://attunedvibrations.com/432hz-healing/

...completely obliterated any thought that there might be truth in this theory.

Opening your ears for music that has been tuned to the “scientific” 432Hz frequency would benefit the entire planet and everyone who lives on it, while listening to music tuned to the “disharmonic” 440Hz frequency does harm by causing stress, negative behaviors and unstable emotions.

Listening to 432Hz music resonates inside your body, releases emotional blockages, and expands consciousness. 432Hz music allows you to tune into the knowledge of the universe around us in a more intuitive way.

I'm going to end this argument by stating that the last site looks TOTALLY LEGIT (and I mean that in NO WAY that might transpire feeling of COMPLETE SARCASM) and does NOT look like some weirdo who designed his web-page to try and sell this crap to unsuspecting and stupid people.



TOTALLY LEGIT!!!

[oxy60]

That's what I heard about string instruments.  If you can the pitch, the instrument is going to have to adjust too.  String tension, etc.

I still don't quite get it.  8 divides evenly into both 432 or 440.  8 times 54 vs. 8 times 55.  What's the difference?  More lower notes fit into 432?

My "A" clarinet (not Bb) must have had an interesting past because it was set to a lower "A." When I acquired it 440 was all the rage so to play in my high school orchestra I had to buy a shorter neck piece.

In strings you just tune the whole instrument. No need to buy anything.

440 works out so all the C's end up sounding from organ pipes of exact feet, 1,2,4,8,16 and if you don't have room put a stopper in the 16 to get 32!

[rubato22]

Do you have any research to back up that statement??? In what way is 432Hz more connected to life than 440???

I'm asking as someone else who has perfect pitch, and to me, sound is sound. Granted some keys help portray a differing mood, but I'd like to know why 432Hz is so special???
[/quote

Just joined so hi to all, not a troll or anything! I'd say that what makes 43,200 special is it has direct correlations with Fabonicci and Pi and with much besides, it is also the number of seconds in exactly half a day! 60x60x12=43,200. A432 also makes octave C's above and below 512 256 128 64 32 etc etc. It's just kind of in sync with everything more. And swapping to A432 on my Clavinova just resolves in my ears better, the A440 is dissonant and confusing....IMHO

[awesom_o]

Baroque pitch vs modern pitch has more to do with the development of instruments and the increasing size of performance spaces throughout the 19th and into the 20th century.

Baroque set-up string instruments all have shorter necks and and fingerboards, shorter bass bars, and fingerboard angles which create much less overall tension.

All keyboard instruments without cast-iron frames, e.g. harpsichords and fortepianos, do not have the immense internal strength required to support the string tension that modern pianos tuned to 440 require.

I'm extremely surprised that people claim not to hear the difference between 440 and 432. To me they are night and day.

I would never tune my Steinway to 432. It would sound flat and wrong.

I absolutely love Baroque tuning. When I was younger, my perfect pitch made me hate it. I thought A just sounded like a Bb for me. I also disliked Baroque music in general as a child. Now it is one of my main areas of study in life. My 2nd cello will be a Baroque set-up.

I've recently fallen in love with Franz Bruggen's Orchestra of the 18th Century. My gold standard for the Beethoven Symphonies previously had been the Vienna Phil, which actually tunes to 442 now.

Bruggen tunes to various Baroque tunings I think, according to which repertoire they are playing.  The sound of his orchestra playing Beethoven Symphonies is unreal, and infinitely more beautiful than the Vienna Phil. Less noisy than the modern orchestra, but actually much more intense musically.

Rule of thumb: a more tense instrument creates a louder, brighter, sharper, but not necessarily more musically intense sound.