How do I know that the student is ready to learn new pieces?

[feilin]

Hi all,

How do I know that the student is ready to learn new pieces? When is the right time to give new pieces to student? I mean, do you wait the student could play music fluently or 50% fluent, etc., or let the student learn new pieces and leave the old pieces even when he/she didn't play well? It is a struggle for me. I have a student who is rarely practice at home. I gave him 3 pieces at a time. I told him to learn one page for each pieces at home. But the next week, he told me that he just learned the 1st piece. The other week, he said that he just learned the 1st and 2nd pieces. And the other week he played all pieces but not fluently and without dynamics. Personally, I want to give him more pieces, but if he doesn't practice at home, how could he play music well? If I leave the old pieces and move to new pieces (while he didn't play well), am I cultivate bad habit for him (make him think that playing music like that is all right and not trying to practice harder)?

If you meet the student who rarely practice at home, what will you do? How many pieces do you give to your student at a time?

Really need help please.. Thank you for helping  .

[lilla]

There are differences in approach.  Sometimes it depends on whether your students are "serious" or "recreational".  It can depend on their talent or lack of talent.  But in my studio, I generally allow a piece of music to go for three lessons (three weeks), if necessary.  At the end of three weeks I figure either they don't like it and won't practice it, it is too difficult and they can't do it, they don't understand it and need a fresh approach, or they are sick of it and won't give it any effective practicing any longer.  So, I assign something new.  I usually says things like, "let's set this aside for now" (borrowed that from my own piano teacher), or "this could use some polishing but let's go ahead and start something new", or "let's come back to this later". Although we don't usually ever come back.  But what we do, is find another piece of music with the same concept and try it again with a fresh approach.  Sometimes, it is just something that doesn't suit that student.  For example, I have several students who will probably never play rags.  They just don't have a feel for the syncopation.  So we set those aside and I make a mental note not to assign another rag until the students has shown some progress in syncopated rhythms.  So, I vote for dumping the piece and moving on.  Fresh approach, fresh music, new interest, renewed interest in practicing.  Hopefully it'll kick in and the student will improve to the point where they complete their assignment in one week.

[asiantraveller101]

I understand your dilemma. My suggestion, which I adopted for many years, is to have mixed goals for the pieces. I allow some pieces to be learned quick and "passed" easily, while having one or 2 long-term goal pieces which have to played with finesse/polish. I explain the reasons to the students for having such mixed pieces. They need to know why they keep working on certain pieces longer than the others. The short-term pieces, usually easier and shorter, enable students to read quicker while allowing them to feel accomplished; whereas the long-term pieces, which are usually memorized, are for recitals and competitions. This has proven to work well for my teaching.

[quantum]

For students that don't do much home practice, you could do in-lesson guided practice.  Teach them how to work on pieces, how to deal with trouble spots, not starting at the beginning of the piece every time, etc.

[feilin]

Thanks all for the reply

But in my studio, I generally allow a piece of music to go for three lessons (three weeks), if necessary.  At the end of three weeks I figure either they don't like it and won't practice it, it is too difficult and they can't do it, they don't understand it and need a fresh approach, or they are sick of it and won't give it any effective practicing any longer.  So, I assign something new.  I usually says things like, "let's set this aside for now" (borrowed that from my own piano teacher), or "this could use some polishing but let's go ahead and start something new", or "let's come back to this later". Although we don't usually ever come back.

My teacher suggests this too  . Thank you for your advice.

My suggestion, which I adopted for many years, is to have mixed goals for the pieces. I allow some pieces to be learned quick and "passed" easily, while having one or 2 long-term goal pieces which have to played with finesse/polish.

Absolutely agree with you  .

For students that don't do much home practice, you could do in-lesson guided practice.  Teach them how to work on pieces, how to deal with trouble spots, not starting at the beginning of the piece every time, etc.

Actually, I had told him how to practice at home, how to divide pieces into small section and practice each section, not just play the pieces from the beginning till the end without analyze the musical concept and structure .

[keypeg]

Actually, I had told him how to practice at home, how to divide pieces into small section and practice each section, not just play the pieces from the beginning till the end without analyze the musical concept and structure .

Did you teach him how to analyze musical concept and structure, and the theory that he would have to know before doing that?  If he doesn't know how to do that, have you divided the music up for him, and done such analysis yourself so that he will know how to approach it?

[quantum]

Actually, I had told him how to practice at home, how to divide pieces into small section and practice each section, not just play the pieces from the beginning till the end without analyze the musical concept and structure .

Sometimes it is not enough just to tell the student what to do.  Just because you have told them, doesn't mean they understand what the teaching entails.  You need to show the student how to practice. 

In lesson, have the student practice the music.  Don't take shortcuts by telling the student what to do and presume they will do so at home.  Pay attention to every detail and execute the detail in lesson.  When a problem spot comes up, ask how the student would solve the problem if he/she was at home.  Guide and correct the practice technique as necessary.  Don't try to give all the answers to your student, build up their problem solving skills - hence practice technique.  Have the student solve a manageable problem in lesson with you, while you oversee their practice technique.  It could be something as simple as tidying up a single measure.  Make sure the student knows they are being taught how to work at home.  Ask the student to evaluate their own progress before you give your own pointers for improvement. 

[feilin]

Did you teach him how to analyze musical concept and structure, and the theory that he would have to know before doing that?  If he doesn't know how to do that, have you divided the music up for him, and done such analysis yourself so that he will know how to approach it?

Thanks for your respond . I want to share a little about my teaching method, if you have any suggestion I gladly accepted. He is a transfer student and had learn theory grade 4, which mean he should understand about basic music theory (rhythm, dynamics, tempo, key signature, etc.). In learning new pieces, usually I ask him to play few bars (1 phrases or 1 motive, depend on the difficulty of the pieces) and seek is there any repetition in the rest of the pieces. And then we move to the 2nd phrase and do the same. I ask him to divide the music into small section by himself. If the pieces have chordal texture, I ask him to analyze the chord and notice the chord progression (is it move step by step or not, is it stepping up/down).

I ask him how to practice at home when he faced a pieces like this/that (I started do this last week, I have not thought about it previously).

In lesson, have the student practice the music.  Don't take shortcuts by telling the student what to do and presume they will do so at home.  Pay attention to every detail and execute the detail in lesson.  When a problem spot comes up, ask how the student would solve the problem if he/she was at home.  Guide and correct the practice technique as necessary.  Don't try to give all the answers to your student, build up their problem solving skills - hence practice technique.  Have the student solve a manageable problem in lesson with you, while you oversee their practice technique.  It could be something as simple as tidying up a single measure.  Make sure the student knows they are being taught how to work at home.  Ask the student to evaluate their own progress before you give your own pointers for improvement. 

Thank you for your advice, especially in ask the student to evaluate their own progress. I'll try this

[bronnestam]

I remember from my own lessons as a teenager that I just HATED it when my teacher seemed to be annoyed/frustrated with my lack of practice and almost angrily started to make sharp marks in the notes with her pencil when I made mistakes. (Which were NOT caused my stupidity, but just from insufficient sight reading.) I can stare at the same sheet today, with her remarks still there after 30 years, and they still feel like reprimands. Sometimes I smile - did I really have a problem with THAT? I also admit that some of the remarks have been helpful ... but most of all I shudder a bit and remember the negative feelings.

Well, negative feelings don't exactly help your motivation up ...

What I liked in those humiliating lessons when I had not practiced enough - hey, most students know when they have not!!! - was when we started working together with the piece, using one hand each. I have always been a worthless sight reader HT, but HS I can do fairly good if it is not something extremely difficult. Then I got the feeling that things started moving, right there. I think this is terribly important: not to feel stuck.

And if the student still does not learn the piece, you have to investigate and analyze, together, why this does not work for him.

[keypeg]

Thanks for your respond . I want to share a little about my teaching method, if you have any suggestion I gladly accepted. He is a transfer student and had learn theory grade 4, which mean he should understand about basic music theory (rhythm, dynamics, tempo, key signature, etc.). In learning new pieces, usually I ask him to play few bars (1 phrases or 1 motive, depend on the difficulty of the pieces) and seek is there any repetition in the rest of the pieces. And then we move to the 2nd phrase and do the same. I ask him to divide the music into small section by himself. If the pieces have chordal texture, I ask him to analyze the chord and notice the chord progression (is it move step by step or not, is it stepping up/down).

My first thought is something I learned in second language teaching: the idea of "transfer".  In language anything we learn in grammar or syntax, for example, is useless unless it actually gets transferred into the practical.  In the same way, when music theory is learned in theory books and a student can name things and write the right answers on paper, is he necessarily applying it in a practical sense?  I know teachers who insist on introducing theory through what is found in music first, and then teach the formal part.  So will a student be able to relate what was learned in theory, to what is in the music he plays?  Plus you don't know how that theory was taught.  Often it becomes paperwork for the purpose of passing an exam.

How about modeling the process?  I mean, mark the piece into sections for the student, mark significant things in it etc.  Maybe a photocopy that can be marked up that way?  What about practice strategies?  For example, I've been taught to work in smaller sections and then bring them together.  I've also learned to work only on notes and easy fingering and the motions that go with them first, then go for other things in layers or stages.  The result is that as a student you are thinking and focused on the piece rather than being spaced out.  The opposite is a practising that says "Do page 1 ten times each day." which also exists.

[feilin]

Well, negative feelings don't exactly help your motivation up ...

What I liked in those humiliating lessons when I had not practiced enough - hey, most students know when they have not!!! - was when we started working together with the piece, using one hand each. I have always been a worthless sight reader HT, but HS I can do fairly good if it is not something extremely difficult. Then I got the feeling that things started moving, right there. I think this is terribly important: not to feel stuck.

And if the student still does not learn the piece, you have to investigate and analyze, together, why this does not work for him.

Ok, thanks for your advice.

My first thought is something I learned in second language teaching: the idea of "transfer".  In language anything we learn in grammar or syntax, for example, is useless unless it actually gets transferred into the practical.  In the same way, when music theory is learned in theory books and a student can name things and write the right answers on paper, is he necessarily applying it in a practical sense?  I know teachers who insist on introducing theory through what is found in music first, and then teach the formal part.  So will a student be able to relate what was learned in theory, to what is in the music he plays?  Plus you don't know how that theory was taught.  Often it becomes paperwork for the purpose of passing an exam.

Hmm.. I don't think that my question is too difficult because I showed him the first phrase and ask if the phrase is repeated. If it is repeated, is the phrase repeated exactly or not. I try to ask in very simple way and he can answer my questions too.

How about modeling the process?  I mean, mark the piece into sections for the student, mark significant things in it etc.  Maybe a photocopy that can be marked up that way?  What about practice strategies?  For example, I've been taught to work in smaller sections and then bring them together.  I've also learned to work only on notes and easy fingering and the motions that go with them first, then go for other things in layers or stages.  The result is that as a student you are thinking and focused on the piece rather than being spaced out.

We do this in almost every lesson we had  . I think the only reason is he did not practice enough at home. When he practice, he could play fairly good.

How do you motivate student to practice? Thank you

[keypeg]

Ok, thanks for your advice.

Hmm.. I don't think that my question is too difficult because I showed him the first phrase and ask if the phrase is repeated. If it is repeated, is the phrase repeated exactly or not. I try to ask in very simple way and he can answer my questions too.

As both a teacher (not music, though I have taught some things now), and as a student, I don't think this is enough.  We assume more knowledge than is there, and we mentally fill in the blanks without knowing we are doing so.  That is, we mentally pull in the things we know, and don't know the student doesn't have these things.   I have taken a fair bit of theory by now, still studying musical form.  It is NOT that straightforward for a student.  And then, organizing that work into a practicing strategy is fairly sophisticated.

This may also be at least a partial answer to your last question.