What Would A Middle-Level Concert Pianist Charge To Learn & Perform This

[j_joe_townley]

I'm seriously thinking of hiring a concert pianist to give the premiere of my Concerto Appassionata. Of course there are hundreds of details to work out but the first detail is just figuring out how much a middle-tier pianist would charge since I don't want an unknown hack, and someone of the caliber of Yuja or Yundi is totally out of reach and impractical--they would even give me the time of day.

Anyway here's the piano score:

https://www.scribd.com/_Joe_Townley

And the audio:

Thank you much for any assistance you can render.

[ade16]

No self-respecting professional pianist is going to take on any job billed as 'Middle Level Concert Pianist'! What does this mean? A concert pianist is a concert pianist! No one who has worked very hard indeed over many years to achieve the status of concert pianist, is going to take kindly to being referred to as a 'Middle-Level Concert Pianist'!  

Actually, I have listened to your concerto and I thought it rather impressive, if a tad derivative. It looks and sounds very difficult, so I don't think a 'Middle-Level Concert Pianist', if there is such a thing, could cut the mustard! You need top notch, someone who can handle piano concertos by Brahms, Liszt, Rachmaninov and the like.

Good luck. I'm sure there must be someone out there willing to take this on. Perhaps modify your pitch? Sales pitch that is, not musical pitch! 

[j_joe_townley]

No self-respecting professional pianist is going to take on any job billed as 'Middle Level Concert Pianist'! What does this mean? A concert pianist is a concert pianist! No one who has worked very hard indeed over many years to achieve the status of concert pianist, is going to take kindly to being referred to as a 'Middle-Level Concert Pianist'!  

Actually, I have listened to your concerto and I thought it rather impressive, if a tad derivative. It looks and sounds very difficult, so I don't think a 'Middle-Level Concert Pianist', if there is such a thing, could cut the mustard! You need top notch, someone who can handle piano concertos by Brahms, Liszt, Rachmaninov and the like.

Good luck. I'm sure there must be someone out there willing to take this on. Perhaps modify your pitch? Sales pitch that is, not musical pitch! 

Very, Very grateful for the excellent advice. I didn't consider that and I should have known better. 

Hmmm.....that difficult? Now what am I going to do? I don't want to simplify the piano part. It would destroy the character, but I cannot possibly hope to get someone other than a virtuoso to perform it. Are there any concert pianists of fame that frequent here, or do I have to start calling their agents? What a dilemma!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I've already given my opinion on the piece, but a few thoughts.

Having the score in front of me is useful:

It's a little curious how much is written in 5s in the rh, but I don't see that it should cause an especial problem. The chromatic 5 in thirds against 3 looks manageable on page 6, but (unless I'm reflecting my own weaknesses unduly) the chromatic 5 in fourths against 3 on the next page looks nasty. Personally I'd consider simplifying it so that only the first dyad of each group is a fourth.

The end of page 12/start page 13 is notationally peculiar. When the falling orchestral motif coincides with the piano entrance, the bottom note falls on the beat; beforehand the accents fall differently. I'm not a mindreader but I suspect you intend that the final note of the previous motifs also fall on the accent. There is also inconsistency regarding accentuation with respect to and in comparison with the occurrences of the motif on page 17.

I have a feeling Liszt would have re-expressed your ascending chordal passage on page 24 in alternate chords (compare the opening of the Totentanz), achieving much the same effect with marginally different notes but making it much more pianistic. I think there are other places where he would have achieved your effects with greater economy (is it really necessary to have so many 5 against 3s - is that cross rhythm there for an actual musical purpose or is it just a historical accident of how the music has emerged?).

In general I don't think it's ridiculously inaccessible and I think any decent pianist (e.g. college graduate) should be able to play this competently given enough time, so tbh, I don't think you need to engage a "virtuoso" - whatever that means nowadays.

As for the cost, I think you're going to pay more than you would to engage a pianist for a random famous concerto, simply because that concerto's probably already in their repertoire and they'll have to do a lot more work with this one.

[j_joe_townley]

I've already given my opinion on the piece, but a few thoughts.

Having the score in front of me is useful:

It's a little curious how much is written in 5s in the rh, but I don't see that it should cause an especial problem. The chromatic 5 in thirds against 3 looks manageable on page 6, but (unless I'm reflecting my own weaknesses unduly) the chromatic 5 in fourths against 3 on the next page looks nasty. Personally I'd consider simplifying it so that only the first dyad of each group is a fourth.

The end of page 12/start page 13 is notationally peculiar. When the falling orchestral motif coincides with the piano entrance, the bottom note falls on the beat; beforehand the accents fall differently. I'm not a mindreader but I suspect you intend that the final note of the previous motifs also fall on the accent. There is also inconsistency regarding accentuation with respect to and in comparison with the occurrences of the motif on page 17.

I have a feeling Liszt would have re-expressed your ascending chordal passage on page 24 in alternate chords (compare the opening of the Totentanz), achieving much the same effect with marginally different notes but making it much more pianistic. I think there are other places where he would have achieved your effects with greater economy (is it really necessary to have so many 5 against 3s - is that cross rhythm there for an actual musical purpose or is it just a historical accident of how the music has emerged?).

In general I don't think it's ridiculously inaccessible and I think any decent pianist (e.g. college graduate) should be able to play this competently given enough time, so tbh, I don't think you need to engage a "virtuoso" - whatever that means nowadays.

As for the cost, I think you're going to pay more than you would to engage a pianist for a random famous concerto, simply because that concerto's probably already in their repertoire and they'll have to do a lot more work with this one.

Thanks so much for your invaluable feedback, ronde.

You must have read my mind in regards to the chromatic fourths. Yes, I did consider that, while the thirds are manageable, the fourths might be seriously problematic given the tempo and I would have to give the pianist that option to use four 16's instead of five unless I instruct the conductor to ritard that measure since fortunately it's at the end of a phrase. I'd leave it up to the pianist since I don't think overall it would hurt the music.

How the 5's came about was that 4's were too few and 6's were too many (unplayable) a problem I had with my 2nd concerto opening interlocking octaves. And I like the sound of an off-number rather than the usual 4 q's = a whole.

Much of that notation with measures in 6/4 and then 4/4 has nothing to do with something I had in mind. Unfortunately, in order to achieve ritardandos the Noteflight notation only allows it by adding extra beats. So if I wanted the solo clarinet to ritard his last phrase I had to add two beats, making it 6/4. That's the only thing that cockamamie odd beat measurements had to do with.

You're probably right about the ascending chords at the end. I just conceived it as chords against octaves to lead into the cadenza burst right before the brass fanfare closes the piece. There could always be an ossia if I can think of one.

So far as cost goes for a name (and that gets back to that 1st, 2nd, 3rd tier business, since Yuja wang would obviously charge way more if she even agreed, than someone like Georgii Cherkin) do you think 5K, 10K, 15K? Can you hint at some possibilities? I have no idea what the business is these days. Used to be you could get someone to learn the Rach 3 for $100 but those days are long gone in this economy.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

So far as cost goes for a name (and that gets back to that 1st, 2nd, 3rd tier business, since Yuja wang would obviously charge way more if she even agreed, than someone like Georgii Cherkin) do you think 5K, 10K, 15K? Can you hint at some possibilities? I have no idea what the business is these days. Used to be you could get someone to learn the Rach 3 for $100 but those days are long gone in this economy.

You could always try asking someone with a high internet profile, like Greg Anderson. https://www.andersonpiano.com/interact/ask.php

[timothy42b]

I haven't had time to look at the score, I'll do that when I can get a chance.   Not that I could play it myself!  But I'm always interested in new work.   

But depending on your intent, there are some other ways to get a concerto performed.  They would be called cheating by some and performing by others.  (and no, I'm not talking about a recording, this is live performance)

Can you explain a bit about what you are trying to do? 

[j_joe_townley]

You could always try asking someone with a high internet profile, like Greg Anderson. https://www.andersonpiano.com/interact/ask.php

I listened to Greg on La Campanella. He's good but not that good so I don't think he'd be able to get an engagement with an orchestra.  American audiences have a natural attraction to foreign artists. That's why, overall, top-notch pianists from overseas get paid more---because they have stronger drawing power. It's a sad fact.

[j_joe_townley]

I haven't had time to look at the score, I'll do that when I can get a chance.   Not that I could play it myself!  But I'm always interested in new work.   

But depending on your intent, there are some other ways to get a concerto performed.  They would be called cheating by some and performing by others.  (and no, I'm not talking about a recording, this is live performance)

Can you explain a bit about what you are trying to do? 

I'd be interested in learning what these ways called "cheating" would be. Not that I'd actually use them....

What I'm trying to do is get a pianist with a somewhat recognizable "name" to play this along with say, the Franck Symphonic Variations or the Hungarian Fantasy....as a piggy-back piece to one of the great classics. So for instance Lang Lang (I wish) gets invited to the Albany Phil to perform a shorter work. He says, "I have this other piece called Concerto Appassionata that I'd like to try out. I have the parts for the orchestra. Can we add it?"

I mean there's a hundred ways this could play out, but that's essentially what I'm after. I pay LL and LL adds it to his program when it's appropriate. Naturally he couldn't do it when he's invited to play a full-length concerto.

So when I say middle-tier, naturally I'm not going to refer to the pianist directly, "You're just middle-tier." But in negotiations I start with a certain figure acknowledging the strength of his drawing power. That's what I need to find out, just a rough idea...500 or 50,000. Maybe there is no answer to my question except to just get out there and tread water.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I listened to Greg on La Campanella. He's good but not that good so I don't think he'd be able to get an engagement with an orchestra.  American audiences have a natural attraction to foreign artists. That's why, overall, top-notch pianists from overseas get paid more---because they have stronger drawing power. It's a sad fact.

I really do think you're shooting yourself in the foot here. I'm quite sure he could, and probably does, get orchestral engagements; then again I was only using him as an example. How about this pianist? https://www.avgusteantonov.com/artist.php?view=prog&rid=1731

I'm pretty sure he gets orchestral engagements; he also posts here occasionally as avguste (I hesitate in using him as an example, as it's rather presumptuous of me to put him forward as a potential pianist without his permission). In any case, I'm quite sure you can get a more than competent pianist without the requirement for them to be a "name". I can understand your desire to make it as big an event as possible, but I also think you're making it more difficult to achieve by doing so.

[j_joe_townley]

I really do think you're shooting yourself in the foot here. I'm quite sure he could, and probably does, get orchestral engagements; then again I was only using him as an example. How about this pianist? https://www.avgusteantonov.com/artist.php?view=prog&rid=1731

I'm pretty sure he gets orchestral engagements; he also posts here occasionally as avguste (I hesitate in using him as an example, as it's rather presumptuous of me to put him forward as a potential pianist without his permission). In any case, I'm quite sure you can get a more than competent pianist without the requirement for them to be a "name". I can understand your desire to make it as big an event as possible, but I also think you're making it more difficult to achieve by doing so.

He sounds fine. I mean anyone who plays Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto has got to command at least some respect. (kidding) I looked at his concerto repertoire. He likes an eclectic blend of traditional and unknown so sounds like he might be right up my alley. by the way, I love Emerson's concerto. I think it's a great piece of music. But it sort of demonstrates why getting a concerto into the standard repertoire is pretty nigh impossible these days. So i wouldn't be doing this with any hope that it would catch fire or anything. I know that's an impossibility. I think at this point I'm pretty much just doing this to make a video of an excellent live performance, which is why I'd bypass a community orchestra (who would only butcher it) and go for broke with a larger ensemble. As you can see I have a rough idea of how the music business operates these days--the nuts and bolts--but I'm not completely sure how those nuts and bolts fit together. I know that unless I'm willing to pay big $$$'s for this, I must "rely on the kindness of strangers" to a great extent as Blanche Dubois so eloquently put it.

Well, it's just a matter at this point of Avguste seeing this post and quoting me a price, I suppose. The deal would have to include the symphony orchestra however, as I have no contacts whatsoever.

I will relate an incident with my 2nd Piano Concerto however. I contacted a number of concert pianists about a year ago (not sure if i should use names here so I'll use initials) and T.P.'s agent contacted me and said Mr. P would be interested in giving the premiere since he loved to do these things, but it would have to be in Eastern Europe where he has a number of contacts. I politely declined saying that Eastern Europe was just too far away for me to attend. I don't recall if money was mentioned but for some reason the number $10,000 jumps out at me when I try to dredge up the details.

[avguste]

Good evening

to ronde_des_sylphes
 I appreciate you mentioning my name. Thank you for that.

to Mr Townley

Thank you for sharing this composition. I have enjoyed looking at the 2 piano score and listening to it. As a matter of fact I am re-listening to it as we speak and it is really taking on me

I have to say it is very well written and as Ade16 has posted, it is quite challenging.
 
Before moving to the main subject, let me address a bit the issue of name recognition and success. In our business, name recognition is gained by performances and by presenters knowing about the artist/composer.

Regarding the main subject of this thread, I would be interested and willing to talk with you about the possibilities of performing your work.  As you saw on my website, I do specialize on performing  modern music (especially American living composers), so your work is right up my alley of work . And like I said above, I am really enjoying listening to it.

The best ways to communicate with me are by email (avguste@avgusteantonov.com) or pm on these forums. I would recommend to use the email as I am not on PianoStreet on a daily basis.

Just wanted to add that I am listening to your Piano Concerto #2 and I love what I am hearing. Planning on listening to the Piano Concerto #1 as well.

Thank you

[j_joe_townley]

Good evening

to ronde_des_sylphes
 I appreciate you mentioning my name. Thank you for that.

to Mr Townley

Thank you for sharing this composition. I have enjoyed looking at the 2 piano score and listening to it. As a matter of fact I am re-listening to it as we speak and it is really taking on me

I have to say it is very well written and as Ade16 has posted, it is quite challenging.
 
Before moving to the main subject, let me address a bit the issue of name recognition and success. In our business, name recognition is gained by performances and by presenters knowing about the artist/composer.

Regarding the main subject of this thread, I would be interested and willing to talk with you about the possibilities of performing your work.  As you saw on my website, I do specialize on performing  modern music (especially American living composers), so your work is right up my alley of work . And like I said above, I am really enjoying listening to it.

The best ways to communicate with me are by email (avguste@avgusteantonov.com) or pm on these forums. I would recommend to use the email as I am not on PianoStreet on a daily basis.

Just wanted to add that I am listening to your Piano Concerto #2 and I love what I am hearing. Planning on listening to the Piano Concerto #1 as well.

Thank you

Thank you for your kind remarks, avguste. I should say first that the First Piano Concerto is not really worth your time since it was the first thing I ever wrote and to my mind is amateurish. It holds a special place in my heart simply for that reason. As to the 2nd I'm glad you like what you hear. That one is pretty large and I seriously doubt you could get an orchestra of any quality to take it on. Nevertheless......

I'm certain you have discovered that my music is horribly outdated in its post-romantic style and therefore very "unmarketable" far as getting serious orchestras interested in doing it. That is a problem you might have a solution for and we will talk about that in private as it is among the first couple of hurdles we must jump. One conductor who I showed the 2nd concerto to remarked bluntly albeit kindly "Do we really need a 5th Rachmaninoff Concerto?" and that will be the prevailing attitude among conductors.

At this point please assess the Appassionata, noting that there will be resistance but that it's a shorter work and therefore more pliable far as programming goes, also noting that, as I've been told by personnel in the business, orchestras' schedule are already booked as far out as three years which is its own problem, but you have more experience with this than I do. When you've analyzed the entire situation please contact me via PM here and we can begin to discuss this.

Thanks much for your time and hopefully we will come to some arrangement that is mutually beneficial.

[avguste]

sent you a pm

[timothy42b]

I think at this point I'm pretty much just doing this to make a video of an excellent live performance, which is why I'd bypass a community orchestra (who would only butcher it) and go for broke with a larger ensemble. 

I've played with a number of community orchestras, and while butcher might be unnecessarily harsh, the ones I've played with would probably not do it justice.  It is after all not standard repertoire they've done a number of times.

But I heard the Eastman Symphony on the radio this week, and was very impressed.  It's a college ensemble, but did a very professional job of it.  If this is more of a chance to do a good performance than an entry into the standard repertoire there might be quite a number of conservatories up to it. 

[timothy42b]

I'd be interested in learning what these ways called "cheating" would be. Not that I'd actually use them....

The method I'm most familiar with is usually called a musical conductor program.

The more technically difficult a piece is, or from the other side the closer a piece is to the technical limits of any particular performer, the harder it is to do more than just play the notes.  How do you really put in the expression, and convey the composer's intent, if you're struggling just to hit all the right keys?

Conductor programs add a level of freedom to the performer.  Or, they let a hack stumble through something above his level - it could be characterized either way.  But you can tell by listening whether the performer really understands, or is just pressing keys, and you do have to know the piece well and prepare well.  There are some things you don't have to do - like have big hands.  Parallel 12ths?  No problem.  And that fact adds a dimension to what the composer can write.  What if your muse demands a figure that is technically unplayable?  Don't compromise, write what you want.   

Back in 1994 Liza Dalby played the Brahms G minor Rhapsody, Opus 79, #2 using one of these programs.  I think it was Tapper.

To make a long story short (yeah, I know, too late) these programs work by letting the performer control the flow of MIDI with a simplified interface, such that he controls the start, dynamics, and articulation of note elements but not the notes themselves. 
 

[j_joe_townley]

The method I'm most familiar with is usually called a musical conductor program.

The more technically difficult a piece is, or from the other side the closer a piece is to the technical limits of any particular performer, the harder it is to do more than just play the notes.  How do you really put in the expression, and convey the composer's intent, if you're struggling just to hit all the right keys?

Conductor programs add a level of freedom to the performer.  Or, they let a hack stumble through something above his level - it could be characterized either way.  But you can tell by listening whether the performer really understands, or is just pressing keys, and you do have to know the piece well and prepare well.  There are some things you don't have to do - like have big hands.  Parallel 12ths?  No problem.  And that fact adds a dimension to what the composer can write.  What if your muse demands a figure that is technically unplayable?  Don't compromise, write what you want.   

Back in 1994 Liza Dalby played the Brahms G minor Rhapsody, Opus 79, #2 using one of these programs.  I think it was Tapper.

To make a long story short (yeah, I know, too late) these programs work by letting the performer control the flow of MIDI with a simplified interface, such that he controls the start, dynamics, and articulation of note elements but not the notes themselves. 
 

Sounds to me like this would be somewhat computer-generated unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. What I'm looking for is a live pianist with a live ensemble that can reproduce essentially what you kind people are hearing on the audio--meaning note perfect (even if that involves some backstage audio correcting like Horowitz did after his Rach Three performance w/ Ormandy. In reference to community orchestras what I'm referring to is the characteristic violin sections all playing a semitone off up or down--you know the characteristic sound---or the horns having an entrance and sliding from a g to an e before getting the g. That sort of thing.

YouTube listeners are unforgiving these days and everything has to be note-perfect. They forgive old artists from the 30's when mistakes didn't matter because the philosophy was that the music was paramount, not the accuracy. Nowadays, though missed notes are unforgivable, whether non-pro or especially pro. So a video that audio-wise is deficient, unfortunately, is quickly forgotten. My concerto will likely be forgotten anyway even if note-perfect and musically right on the money, --I can live with that because I have no expectations I've written another Rach Rhapsody--but in that case it is my fault because the music itself is not memorable, but at least the fault can be laid squarely at my feet and not the performer. At the very least i end up with something that draws an occasional view from someone 10 years from now and I have something for posterity. That's basically all I'm looking for. Everything else is icing. 

[timothy42b]

Sounds to me like this would be somewhat computer-generated unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. What I'm looking for is a live pianist with a live ensemble that can reproduce essentially what you kind people are hearing on the audio--meaning note perfect

Yes, and yes.

Live orchestra with sheet music and a conductor, wearing tuxes.  Live pianist, playing in real time, but on a touch sensitive digital keyboard.  The keyboard is connected to a computer which contains the MIDI file.  Everytime the pianist presses a key, the next MIDI event plays.  The MIDI velocity comes from the key press.  You have to thoroughly know the music, as you're responsible for every time a note plays, but not every pitch a note plays.  In other words you can't simply play quarter notes and expect the rest to be filled in; you have to play the shortest note values as written.  If you don't lose your place (harder than it seems) it will be note perfect.  BUT it will contain exactly the dynamics, articulation, tempo including whatever undanceable level of rubato you put in, unlike a recording.

If you turn the pianist so the keys are not visible to the audience, and if the sound system is of sufficient quality, it will be impossible to tell that it's not a live acoustic performance.  Because it IS a live performance, but it's computer assisted. 

You could even advertise the concert that way:  Brilliant piece by modern composer, so technically difficult even a virtuoso can only play it with computer assistance.

Caveat:  I have not done this personally and I only know of it being done successfully by Liza Darby at the all Brahms concert, and of course it's all over youtube.  I've worked on it a bit a home, and may try it out at my church this summer if we need it.         

[j_joe_townley]

Yes, and yes.

Live orchestra with sheet music and a conductor, wearing tuxes.  Live pianist, playing in real time, but on a touch sensitive digital keyboard.  The keyboard is connected to a computer which contains the MIDI file.  Everytime the pianist presses a key, the next MIDI event plays.  The MIDI velocity comes from the key press.  You have to thoroughly know the music, as you're responsible for every time a note plays, but not every pitch a note plays.  In other words you can't simply play quarter notes and expect the rest to be filled in; you have to play the shortest note values as written.  If you don't lose your place (harder than it seems) it will be note perfect.  BUT it will contain exactly the dynamics, articulation, tempo including whatever undanceable level of rubato you put in, unlike a recording.

If you turn the pianist so the keys are not visible to the audience, and if the sound system is of sufficient quality, it will be impossible to tell that it's not a live acoustic performance.  Because it IS a live performance, but it's computer assisted. 

You could even advertise the concert that way:  Brilliant piece by modern composer, so technically difficult even a virtuoso can only play it with computer assistance.

Caveat:  I have not done this personally and I only know of it being done successfully by Liza Darby at the all Brahms concert, and of course it's all over youtube.  I've worked on it a bit a home, and may try it out at my church this summer if we need it.         

Sounds fascinating. What would it cost roughly to do an 8 minute work for piano & orchestra?

[timothy42b]

Sounds fascinating. What would it cost roughly to do an 8 minute work for piano & orchestra?

Your links didn't work on my other computer but I was able to look at the score and listen to your audio tonight.

I'm no longer sure software is the best way to do this one.  What I'm hearing is a figure ground relationship, with the piano being ground and the orchestra being figure most of the time.  That suggests freeing the pianist up to do a lot of interpretation will not add as much value as I expected.  Plus some of your rhythmic figures will be difficult to do this way except for a person very familiar with the work - like yourself. 

The orchestral part on the other hand sounded very playable and I think there are quite a lot of groups that could do a creditable job, including university or conservatory groups.

You can download Tapper free at https://www.musanim.com/tapper/ and play with it to see.  You already have a MIDI file, so it's just a matter of downloading the program, opening the file, and playing.  If you don't have a digital piano and a MIDI/USB interface you'll have to use your computer keyboard, but you lose all your ability to do dynamics and articulation.  Maybe download two copies and have a friend play the accompaniment.  I've had some personal correspondence with the inventor, who is a really nice guy and an accomplished musician in his own right. 

Are you near a university with a decent symphony?  This might be easier than you think. 

[j_joe_townley]

Your links didn't work on my other computer but I was able to look at the score and listen to your audio tonight.

I'm no longer sure software is the best way to do this one.  What I'm hearing is a figure ground relationship, with the piano being ground and the orchestra being figure most of the time.  That suggests freeing the pianist up to do a lot of interpretation will not add as much value as I expected.  Plus some of your rhythmic figures will be difficult to do this way except for a person very familiar with the work - like yourself. 

The orchestral part on the other hand sounded very playable and I think there are quite a lot of groups that could do a creditable job, including university or conservatory groups.

You can download Tapper free at https://www.musanim.com/tapper/ and play with it to see.  You already have a MIDI file, so it's just a matter of downloading the program, opening the file, and playing.  If you don't have a digital piano and a MIDI/USB interface you'll have to use your computer keyboard, but you lose all your ability to do dynamics and articulation.  Maybe download two copies and have a friend play the accompaniment.  I've had some personal correspondence with the inventor, who is a really nice guy and an accomplished musician in his own right. 

Are you near a university with a decent symphony?  This might be easier than you think. 

Well, to compound an already seemingly insurmountable problem I don't play the piano anymore, not even a note, to be frank. I'm in Los Angeles, but I've approached a good number of orchestra both semi-pro and music-school-university and they all say the same thing, "Sorry, we just don't have the time to devote to anything outside our own schedule." It isn't even a matter of money as many of them, if not all, are well-endowed. So my hopes for this are shrinking rather rapidly.

Thanks much for the idea though, I will try the DL but without a pianist it will be only orchestra. Maybe I could turn it into a symphony?

[timothy42b]

Thanks much for the idea though, I will try the DL but without a pianist it will be only orchestra. Maybe I could turn it into a symphony?

I'd suggest you try the program yourself.  You might surprise yourself by being able to handle the piano part.  I've played some stuff for my kids, and they were impressed, but ordered me not to do it in public because to them it was "cheating."  Well, I'm a craftsman not an artist. 

I don't know how hard it is to get on an orchestra concert program.  I play in several wind ensembles (trombone) and could easily talk one of them into doing something like this.  Have you considered composing for wind ensemble? 

[j_joe_townley]

Have you considered composing for wind ensemble?  

I don't have the ability because technically I am not a composer. I know that sounds strange but I never considered myself a composer even while I was writing my three piano concertos. I've never had any formal training in composition or orchestration. I only started off in 2010 with the idea of fulfilling a fantasy I had as a kid learning piano many moons ago to write a piano concerto and premiere it like Rachmaninoff did--to fame and adulation and adoring females, I suppose that was the idea. But then fate stepped in. I seriously damaged my finger at 18 in a stupid practicing stunt and that was that. I went on to get a BA in music but just as a general music student, not as a pianist. It really was just a ticket to play around for four years, I'm ashamed to say.

Long story short, I gave up music and then roughly 30 years later, after practicing piano for a few years, having the injury resurface, and giving piano up again, this time for good, a simple little tune popped into my brain in 2010 (the opening tune of my 1st piano concerto)

and from there I got the idea to write a concerto, if for no other reason than to just fulfill the promise I made to myself as a kid that I would do it. I don't know what happened but from there it led to my 2nd and then the 3rd (Concerto App.). But all the while I never took it seriously. I just wrote the other two because....I have no actual reason.  

This is a long way of answering, no I've never considered it because I don't think I have the talent to do something meaningful. If there's any worth in what I've already written it's really just a fluke. I probably couldn't do it again if someone offered me a million dollars. I mean I could throw something together but it'd be trash and not worth looking at, much less playing.

I'm  an oddball, that's for sure.