Selfish Musicians

[lianaxana]

I don't know why, but I can't see around how being a pianist isn't selfish. As much as everyone says "I play for the music" "I play to express my emotions" etc. etc.. I see countless pianists who have this elitist air about them.. Pianists who I just shake my head at when they say how "humble" they are or maybe they don't even have to say it; you can just tell that's what they want people think, but it reality they are the opposite. Maybe it isn't the whole of the professional pianist world, but it's a good majority.

Whole days in the practice room & isolation lead to socially awkward people who can't interact with the rest of the world. Where is the balance?

This is probably too broad a topic to tackle. I'm not sure why it bothers me so much, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone; like I said previously, it's not EVERYONE, but it's more than just a handful..

[ranniks]

Let me guess; you suck at the piano or are a beginner who is having trouble with a piece or the whole piano itself?

Saying such a thing, which is prejudice, is just a no no.

[iansinclair]

Interesting point of view.  However, may I be so bold as to offer a different point of view?  Almost any kind of work which emphasizes individual achievement, as opposed to cooperative work, may appear -- to one who is not engaged in that particular activity -- to produce people who appear to be "selfish"; that is who, to someone not so engaged, appear to be so wrapped up in their work as to be indifferent to, if not actually hostile, to much of the rest of the world.  This is not being selfish, however: to be selfish is to demand, either explicitly or implicitly, that others serve one.  Rather, these people are devoted to their work and, while they can certainly be crashing bores, or socially inept, they are at worst unaware of others, not selfish.

Over the course of the last seven decades or so I've been privileged to know quite a number of men and women who are deeply engaged in and rather successful at more or less individual activity; musicians, certainly; artists, dancers, engineers, scientists, writers, scholars of various stripes... craftsmen, pilots... .  Some have been incredibly generous to me or to others; some have not.  All of them, of whatever sort, if they have achieved any sort of real satisfaction in their chosen field (not necessarily public recognition, which is fleeting at best), have been devoted to that work first and foremost.  And that devotion has come at the almost inevitable expense of easy interaction with others, even in their own fields.  But it has not come with selfishness.

Not that I have not known people who are selfish!  But they are not to be found in the creative or scholarly fields, or fields which require real individual skill.  Businessmen, lawyers, politicians... yes indeed.  Not all, by any means, but... some.

Do not confuse the devotion to a craft, an art, a scholarly endeavour, with selfishness!

[hfmadopter]

It may be so or it may be your own interpretation. However, keep in mind that introverts can give a similar air about them. We have had rather long discussions here about if we feel we are introverted or extroverted as pianists/musicians. It takes a certain mind set to work at piano and advance far though, at any rate. Many here admitted that they feel at least to some extent introverted, some even a bit shy or timid. That being the case it also feels rather normal to lock ones self away to practice for hours out of a day, even comfortable.

Back when I had a piano teacher decades ago, I put on a private recital. My teacher was of course invited. The woman I knew in her element, in her studio teaching or at the church directing choir rehearsal suddenly came off very timid, almost alone in a group of people she had not met before. I thought to myself at first that she is nervous but no, by the end of the recital I realized she felt out of place, perhaps shy even. The recital went well, I didn't flub up anything super important and she did not hang around to socialize after. This is a woman who had played publicly , who still played organ in the church and even directed and taught people but just as sure as I'm typing this she was like a shy school girl that day in front of a group of strangers. She did not socialize. One might think, what a snob ! But I 100% know better than that.

It takes all kinds to make a worlds population exist !

[ted]

There is also the important distinction that vanity, having a healthy ego, tiresome extroversion and liking attention do not imply selfishness. Many famous musicians and artists in all genres sometimes behave like puffed up cream cakes of arrogance but they are not necessarily selfish. Indeed, many such individuals dispense considerable amounts of time and money in charity.

I have weathered accusations of selfishness in regard to my music for decades. They used to worry me but, rather like the example of the previous poster, I simply have a profound distaste for performance, for being the centre of attention. I slowly came to realise that as I give away all my scores and recordings to anybody and teach people for free, I am probably not selfish in any sense that matters.   

I am probably musically self-centred to a degree, but that is a different thing. Were I not so, then I would be living somebody else's dream, and that is fatal to any artistic ideal.

[chopin2015]

It is a way of life. Just like there are people who cherish their hearing and embrace historically significant art, yhere are people who hate it and prefer to forget about classical music and piano. They play loud music and don't respect musician's health. They are selfish, in my opinion.
My boyfriend can't stand classical piano. Good thing I am moving away in a few months, otherwise this relationship would end on a bad note.

 Not all introverts are socially awkward, all the time. They just can't stand people in large amounts and so they avoid social situations because they do not want to get pissed off or even worse, have their privacy and tiny, fragile comfort zone violated.

[pjaul]

I study music because of the selfish satisfaction is brings me.  Music is sooo satisfying and healthy for my mind, body, and overall emotional well being.  If it didn't bring me such satisfaction I would spend time pursuing it.  However, it's a happy coincidence that my playing also brings other people joy.

 I like performing, so I'd say it's a mutualistic relationship.  I fulfill the composer's wishes, he satisfies my mind.  My playing satisfies other people, and their listening gives me a way to communicate my feelings to them.  Everyone beneifits.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I don't know why, but I can't see around how being a pianist isn't selfish. As much as everyone says "I play for the music" "I play to express my emotions" etc. etc.. I see countless pianists who have this elitist air about them.. Pianists who I just shake my head at when they say how "humble" they are or maybe they don't even have to say it; you can just tell that's what they want people think, but it reality they are the opposite. Maybe it isn't the whole of the professional pianist world, but it's a good majority.

Whole days in the practice room & isolation lead to socially awkward people who can't interact with the rest of the world. Where is the balance?

This is probably too broad a topic to tackle. I'm not sure why it bothers me so much, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone; like I said previously, it's not EVERYONE, but it's more than just a handful..

That's just ridiculous.  

Pianists are normal ass people.  I don't know what you're talking about.  Your view on this topic is like waay distorted bro.  

And what the heck is up with this 'oh yeah piano players lock themselves in a room the whole day so they don't have a social life'?!  Shut up with that bullshit!  That's just not true!  First off, NOBODY practices all day.  Second off, sure pianists are shy, and we do have to practice a lot, but that doesn't mean we're socially awkward.  6 hours of practice a day doesn't equal a full day.  You still have a whole 10 hours to do stuff given that you get like 8 hours of sleep.  I practice a lot, and I am NOT socially awkward.  The only socially awkward pianist I can think of would be Kissin.  And I'm sure he's not really that socially awkward.  and I know of and personally know of a lot of pianists.

So get rid of that stupid notion that pianists are socially awkward, because we're not.



I think you're just butthurt because you're too lazy to practice and because of that you suck.  So you get mad at people who actually work hard to get to where they're at.

[bronnestam]

This is an "age" problem. You meet a young, talented pianist and she plays like God and when you talk to her she is not God at all, she is just a brat like everyone else in that age. Some people get shocked by the contrast. Every teen is full of herself. That's normal. They will grow up like everyone else.

Also remember never to judge a pianist for their behaviour before and after a performance. They need to focus, they have stage fright, they feel the pressure -> they are not exactly friendly and social in that situation, and who would blame them???
Afterwards, they are totally exhausted. Not a good time for socializing either ...

And during the performance - heck, you know perfectly well what it takes to prepare a good performance. Work, work, even more work. Ridiculously lot of work! So the pianist enters the stage, prepared to sacrifice her blood for this moment ...
 
...aaand some people in the audience seem not to understand this at all. They start talking to each other, as if they were in a restaurant with a radio playing in the background. They sit on the front row, reading text messages on their cell phone in the middle of the concert. They arrive late, when the concert has already started, and make a heavy noise when they struggle to get to their seat - always in the front row or at least in the middle of a row, or they leave early ... They yawn, or they pick up a big camera and shoots a bright flash in the face of the pianist while she is in the middle of La Campanella.
Of course most people are not this rude, but some are. I have seen them. And I know how hurt, disturbed and pissed off the pianist can be in such a situation. I have been there myself!

This does not mean the pianist is "selfish", though. They are just normal humans who get normally hurt by the lack of respect and understanding. Socially awkward people don't care what the audience does. They don't even notice.

[dima_76557]

I don't know why, but I can't see around how being a pianist isn't selfish.

Try dating an overconfident singer or violonist.

[j_menz]

Starting a bit later at piano, I know that I was an opinionated, selfish sociopath long before I had contact with the instrument.

Oh, and OP - you need to get out more. These traits are much more common than you think.

[faulty_damper]

I've known a number of arrogant pricks who played the piano and other instruments, especially voice.  If we talk about singers, yeah, there are way more ditsies that can't sing in tune thinking they are divas than there are pianists who have the same cockiness.  Just watch the X Factor auditions as evidence for this.

[hfmadopter]

I think we have been baited, where is the OP ?

[bronnestam]

I think we have been baited, where is the OP ?

Good question ... 

[faulty_damper]

Well, considering that she was a new member, the responses she got weren't very friendly.  She's also probably young with limited experience in the real world (however real the internet can be) so she wouldn't have taken it so well.  She might have thought our responses were attacking her, instead of the ideas.  This is a youthful mistake, usually, as the inexperienced can't distinguish between ones ideas and ones self.

[danthecomposer]

Whether the OP was a troll or was intimidated into retreat, I must quote Liszt on this subject for the benefit of all:

"Génie oblige!"

It means that someone in a position of authority in their chosen field (music, for us), has an obligation to share that music, to inspire and educate others, to produce future generations of experts, etc.  With genius, comes responsibility.  Selfishness should not be part of the great musician (or expert in whatever field).

It is a marvellous sentence which I feel concludes this thread.

Does it not?

[pianoman53]

Most musicians I know are very unselfish. Music as such is very open, imo. There are not many other professions where everyone is as accepted as in music. No one cares if you're gay, black, blind, poor or just any guy or girl next door, as long as you want to share it... You don't even have to play that well!

Obviously, we're not the most social group, especially before concerts. But who can blame us? We have to practice our hours, and if we start to think of all those hours right before a concert, it gets quite scary - "Now I've been practicing this program every day, 6 hours a day, for 6 months... If I don't nail it, I can probably just give up"-sort of thoughts...

So no, we are not selfish.