Should I change pianos?

[jknott]

I returned to piano about a year ago (after over 30 years) and bought a restored French piano, about 100 years old, from a reputable dealer who had done the restoration - cost around £4,500. 

Looks very nice (candalabras intact) and sounds pretty good but I've had a number of problems with the piano: damper pedal went after a few weeks (wasn't lifting the dampers), then a key sticking and eventually the pin went, and the piano went out of tune very quickly in the spring.  Had it tuned and the key fixed two weeks ago but this evening the damper pedal has gone in a different way (just hanging loose)! 

I'm now playing around 10 hours a week - mozart, brahms, liszt around grade 8 standard or just above - and have regular lessons.  Not much fun without a damper pedal.  I'm going on holiday next week so can't have it fixed for a few weeks and as a I work more than full time I can't keep waiting in for the tuner.

So I'm starting to wonder whether to buy a different piano.  Big questions would be whether to go for a new or old/reconditioned one (I like the idea of real wood and understand most modern ones aren't) and could we fit a grand?  Not in the room it's currently in, so I should probably stick with an upright.  Willing to pay more than current piano but not silly money, and I assume I'd make a loss on the existing one?

I'd appreciate any thoughts.

[hfmadopter]

If that dealer is reputable as you say, then perhaps go back there and explain your situation and see what they might do for you in regards to an upgrade path. Fully research the upgrade  before committing.

[sirpazhan]

I like the idea of real wood and understand most modern ones aren't

If most modern pianos are not made of real wood,, out of curiosity,, what have people told you they're made out of?

[jknott]

Many modern pianos will include laminates of various kinds.  Probably some real wood in there but not necessarily solid wood through and through as they would have been before laminates were developed.

And by the way Mr Sirpazhan, please don't take me for an idiot - you've got the wrong guy.  I'd just like some helpful advice please.

[withindale]

please don't take me for an idiot - you've got the wrong guy.  I'd just like some helpful advice please.

I suggest you follow hfmadopter's advice. You owe it to yourself find out what you really want by playing a number of pianos in your target group. Are there large swings in temperature and humidity where you live that might have affected the tuning? Alternatively, was your piano in a centrally heated room without humidification during the winter? If so you may have dried out and damaged the wrestplank, but otherwise it may be that the dealer sold you a pup. Do you know exactly what restoration was done? (I recently bought a 100 old piano that had been restored 3 years ago that our tuner harshly described as untuneable). The odd sticking key and problem with dampers could be par for the course and not serious on a 100 year old piano, or may be symptomatic. My piano has some some solid rosewood but it it is mainly veneer, like most pianos with a wood finish I believe.

[jknott]

Thank you hmfadopter and withindale. I can see that might be best, but I just don't want a big wrangle with the dealer - I get enough hassle at work and can do without it in something I do for pleasure!

I think there may have been humidity problems in the winter - the tuner (who is also the dealer) mentioned that when he came.  What would be the impact of a shrunken wrest plank?

I didn't want to start a great thing with the real wood comment - I'm sure my piano has lots of veneer too, but will be solid wood (of some kind) underneath.  As I understand it modern pianos might use laminates rather than real wood in some places - which in some ways are better as more stable.

[hfmadopter]

Thank you hmfadopter and withindale. I can see that might be best, but I just don't want a big wrangle with the dealer - I get enough hassle at work and can do without it in something I do for pleasure!

I think there may have been humidity problems in the winter - the tuner (who is also the dealer) mentioned that when he came.  What would be the impact of a shrunken wrest plank?

I didn't want to start a great thing with the real wood comment - I'm sure my piano has lots of veneer too, but will be solid wood (of some kind) underneath.  As I understand it modern pianos might use laminates rather than real wood in some places - which in some ways are better as more stable.

You have to watch out for really cheap/inexpensive grands on the market these days from Asia. Probably some uprights as well. Not all but there are reports of some makers having used press board cores with laminated hardwood surface. So to look at them it looks like a hardwood laminate or glue up but it has that cheap core material. Hopefully it's only in cosmetic parts !

 The difference between some really old pianos, perhaps yours, I'm really would not be sure, is that the soundboards back then were glued up hardwood strips. Today they use a laminated board of hardwoods in most pianos and all replacement sound boards that I know of. However, they are more stable today. The hardwood strips may sound like a more quality item but they can and do become unglued, crack, separate etc. The good news is the impact on sound is usually minimal to non existent. If a buzz appears then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. However cracks in a soundboard will diminish the value of the piano. It generally is a repairable item without replacing though, as long as there is arch left in the frame.

The most common problem with dry to humid and back to dry again atmosphere is the soundboard cracking in the severe dryness of winter if the room hasn't been humidified. That and the pin block dries out, so your tuning pins begin to slip and not hold a tuning. It's normal for there to be a shift in tuning though between seasons. That's due to the simple fact the entire piano swells in the humid weather and shrinks in the dry season, literally pulling it out of tune. It takes large swings though of several months not just a day or two. In the case of the loose pins, if the pin block is good , the pins can often be driven deeper to take on a whole new grip. Or they can be replaced with over sized pins. If the pin block has totally dried up and lost it's resilience or worse, cracked, then it will need replacing and thus be truly unable to hold a tune as the pins slip.

So as another poster mentioned, just what is the state of rebuild is to be considered on old pianos when stated " rebuilt".

Just FWIW, I don't believe anyone is taking you for an idiot ! People come here and ask legit questions that can be taken more than one way, you may feel you were being picked upon, not so sure that was the case.

[withindale]

What would be the impact of a shrunken wrest plank?

The tuning pins can become loose and affect tuning stability when the atomosphere is dry (low RH). All the wood in the piano shrinks and swells as relative humidity changes, that's why people recommend tuning in autumn and spring.

In my case, the tuner suggested the previous owner had subjected my piano to extreme dryness. He had noticed some minor cracks in the soundboard and found the tuning pins in the middle registers were difficult to tune (low torque). He thought the tuning would not hold for long and suggested the pins be replaced with the next size up. Actually the tuning is proving to be quite stable and some of the unpleasant sounds were the result of poor regulation.

My inclination would to fix the damper pedal and keep the piano while discussing upgrade possibilities with the dealer and deciding what to do for the long term.

In view of your original question, perhaps you should employ an independent technician to assess the instrument and discuss whether it will meet your needs.

[indianajo]

I would look to see if the damper pedal problem is just the nut backed off or fell off.  If the adjustment nut is particularly loose, and the thread is standard, I would install an elastic stop nut, then retighten to the right position.  It doesn't take a piano tuner to determine when the dampers are up and when they are down. 
It does require some experience to fit tuning pins in loose holes. I think I would give the tuning problem another year, taking care to put out pans of water over the furnace vents or something to improve the dryness in winter. 
I am a bit suspicious of modern construction piano practices, myself.  Even the US premium brand now is selling an imitation console piano.  A lot of wonderful nineteen fifties and sixties pianos are going to the dump in my area, because everybody talks trash about them.  My church abandoned a great piano to the basketball gym because the veneer on the front was damaged, and bought a boring sounding 44" ******a.  My sister-in-law gave away a decent 1953 Everett for an oriental made tinkly bit of trash console because the decor didn't match her new furniture.   Every professional you meet has an opinion, especially where their ability to make a buck off you by convincing you they are an expert is in play.

[jknott]

Thanks for all the advice coming in.

Indianjo - I'd love to be able to follow your advice about the pedal, but the pedals just disappear inside the front of the piano so I can't see any way to get at them to fix screws?

[indianajo]

if your piano with the loose damper pedal is a console, the lower end of the adjustment shaft is behind the kick panel, which is removed by pulling against a spring latch.  One can sometimes help the spring open by pushing on it with a very thin screwdriver.  Use a lot of light, you should be able to see the spring through the gap.  My experience is post war consoles, so maybe something different was used in the 1890's. 
One determines the size of the thread on the end of the shaft by inspection versus standard sized screws available at the hardware store, or using thread gauges and a caliper (which I don't have).  elastic stop nuts in standard sizes are available in boxes of 25 to 50 from mcmaster.com in the USA.  If the rod thread is long enough you can install a second standard nut, and then when the adjustment length is right, turn the two nuts together with two open end wrenches to create a lock. 
If the thread is completely non-standard, you may remove the nut and put an interference compound on the male thread. I like to use Key-tite, a pipe sealing compound, although permatex #2 is similar in performance but much messier.  both of these compounds can be cleaned of the fingers with an alcohol soaked paper towel.  Certainly don't play the "ivories" the day you use key-tite or permatex as a thread lock.  Lok-tite is a thread lock compound that requires a propane torch to unlock, and you don't want to use one of those on a piano.