Hello everyone, am I on the right track?

[dundar]

Hello,

I recently started to learn piano. I got hold of a copy of Czerny op.500 and am working through the lessons.

What I am looking for is volume 4 of this work. I have I-III already.

My long term goal is to be able to play Beethoven well enough not to embarrass myself. This lead to the selection of Czerny beginner texts - my thinking was that his work seems to prepare students to play romantic works quite well. (plus i found them to be quite enjoyable - I took a look at op 299, 636, 599 and I thought with some effort I can do this.)

Your forgive me for a somewhat unsophisticated taste. However I have decided to change this by expanding my listening horizons as much as possible.

At the moment I am working through Robert Greenberg's lectures on music, any other suggestions on lectures I can find on youtube ect would be great.

Listening wise, have listened to harmond mundi, Hildegard Von Bingen to kick things off, from there Buxtehude,Purcell, Arcangelo Corelli and am now working my way though Bach. next Hyden and after that Mozart, Scarlatti,  Beethoven. Not sure beyond that but have a number of composers I would like to listen to after I have laid the foundation (I am really looking forward to the later Romantic composers and finding out about the 12 tone system.)

As i am a "mature student" of 31   I wanted to get a better appreciation for music and learn to play an instrument.

Luckily I have the old version of the Bach critical editions, and it was great they are available to download (same as the Mozart)

But my questions are:
1) Is are there any critical editions of Beethoven that can be downloaded?
2) Are there any good in depth analysis of Beethoven/Bach work that are available for free as lectures or as books I can get printed here (I am in the Philippines).
3) I have a dusty old copy of Rene Leibowitz's "Schoenberg and His School". I am planning to read this I was wondering what are peoples opinions on the text? is there a better introduction elsewhere?

Thanks for taking the time to read this if you got this far.

Cheers!

Dan.

[bronnestam]

Seems to me that you are a bit over-theoretical at this point, if you just have started to learn the piano.

Of course nothing is wrong with listening to a lot of music and reading lectures and so on. On the contrary, you need to listen a lot, but don't forget to just enjoy yourself. This is supposed to be fun! So I suggest you let your heart decide here. Do what you think is fun and interesting, and do it just because it is fun and interesting.

I re-post a link here to a very useful site about Beethoven and his sonatas.
https://worldofbeethoven.com/

[dundar]

Thanks for your reply, I will make sure the fun is still a part of it - the Greenberg lectures were done in a lighthearted way i think I know some critique his style but I find I take away a lot from the lectures.

What I am trying to do is keep things interesting/stimulating on the theory side of life so when I hit the wall with the piano practice I wont get to frustrated and will keep at it.

I like to know things work so when I saw the music score and listened to the music I thought "how is that done? Why is that so?"

This all started believe it or not by me stumbling upon a series of lectures by Stockhausen on youtube one night - I didn't understand a great deal of what he said about his compositions & point music but I was interested enough to want to know more. So I figured to start at the beginning get the necessary apparatus (and learn a instrument) then hopefully one day i can come back to these lectures and understand what he was talking about completely.

The Beethoven, well of all the music I listened to it spoke to me the most, don't get me wrong what I listened to of Bach and Buxtehude I enjoyed but not in the same way as Beethoven. I would imagine that would perhaps change as I listen to a wider range of composers (I think the early music was excellent, I was surprised how much I enjoyed the church music. This made me want to listen to as wide a range as possible and try not to be biased.)

 

[bronnestam]

I love Beethoven as well, and he is one of the main reasons that I picked up piano playing again after many decades of inactivity. This site I recommend was a very good guide to the music. (Once I thought that Beethoven was boring and grumpy!    ) 

As an active piano student I find Beethoven the most rewarding study object. There is always something new to find out in his music, and both hands are enjoyable to work with. Modern music arrangements often SUCK in this aspect. And to listen - aah. I know it is a forbidden thing to say, but I thing the music of Beethoven is very sexy. Or at least very passionate, in a down-to-earth manner. He stirs up feelings, not just good feelings, but all kinds of them.

Recently I went to a recital. First: some of the Bach suites on cello. Heavenly. I closed my eyes and was carried away, don't know where, almost fell asleep, did not want to wake up.
Then: Beethoven on piano. (Waldstein sonata.) No risk of falling asleep there! Instead sweat, euphoria and a trembling piano, like being in the middle of a storm.

I am absolutely convinced that Beethoven was the true father of modern rock music. He was waaay ahead of his time in many of his compositions. (Listen to the 32nd sonata if you haven't already!) I also get the feeling that he would have loved heavy metal if he'd lived today.

So good luck with your studies, you will have a good time. 

[dundar]

I agree with what you say about Beethoven, it might be a bit controversial but I would imagine if he were around today you would see electric guitars & synth's (ala Yngwie Malmsteen) in his compositions.

In my humble opinion he is the foundation of heavy metal.

Quick update.

Working through Czerny book and doing the exercises.

I have been practicing in this order. spending around 1 hour on each with a 10 min break every 30 mins.

a) Scales
b) Czerny exercises
c) Bartok Mikrokosmos

Probably I am very slow compared to others but I am happy with my progression so far (early days yet! haha will see if I am still saying that 3 months from now.) decided to limit my practice as I don't want to burn out early, forming a routine every day is the key I think. (didn't want to practice 6 hours one day then miss 2 days) So far the practice schedule has been fine and I haven't missed a day so far.

I find it quite hard but its a nice period where I can see the progress from the effort. I wake up the next day and everything is a little easier than before, I don't make so many mistakes and the early exercises I can do without error.

Funny I thought learning an instrument would be all chin scratching/arty farty but its feels more like a weight training scheduled lol.

Surprised at Mikrokosmos, it has you playing both hands from the very beginning. I looked at the Beethoven sheet music but I want to tackle that when I can do it justice partly and also I am worried if i started it to early without the skills I would pick up really bad habits that would hurt me later.

As far as the theory side/music appreciation been listening to the TTC lectures, there are lots of tips on different composers to listen to so I am making a list.

Started listening to Max Reger & Nancarrow - blimey!

I started reading Piston harmony book, its quite in-depth but at least the language is easier on the eyes than the Schoenberg books (I tried to read the theory of harmony, but after a few pages I realized I wasn't understanding what I was reading - and English is my first language.. believe it or not lol.).

I took your advice and decided to look at the things that interested me also, so I figured it would be interesting to look at early church music and how chants work. There were some great resources on youtube.

There are also a number of great books on chant that are online however the notation is diffrent to western musical notation. but Lucky there are a number of online courses in how to read the chants.

Chin scratching tastic - now i can take the melody's for my compositions!

Russian:

Greek:

 Will keep plugging away at it.  



Cheers!

[dundar]

Practice has been going well,

If feels like every day I learn something new about the Bartok Mikrokosmos. Remarkable as volume one is so basic. But I think that's where the 'gotcha' is with a lot of Bartok. On the surface its simple but once you think about it there is a lot of hidden detail and depth if you want it with the music.

I have been focused on getting as much from each exercises before moving on. I know some rush through volume one but I think that's a big mistake (in my humble opinion). I will start looking at 11-20 next week.

One thing I noticed was doing the simple exercises has helped my sight reading no end. and has given me a bunch of ideas/motives to steal uhhh I mean be inspired by for my theory compositions lol.

Finished TTC Beethoven Piano Sonata's (audio), I thought it was great. would recommend it covers most of the Sonata's in great detail.

Came across this video on youtube. I thought it was good.

Going to start listening to the Beethoven Symphony lectures.

I have been on the look out for books on serial composition. But without much luck.

Study plan (Practical) for next week is carry on with the Bartok, Czerny & Scales.
Theory - TTC lectures, and try and do a 12 tone row composition for piano.

There is a paper where they used an IBM computer to calculate the number of all interval tone rows possible (1,928) I have been trying to find a copy of the paper where they outline the method used. I have a list of the rows generated.

Thats pretty much it for now.