I am a horrible pianist

[ranniks]

Good luck.

No but yeah for real, if you consider yourself an advanced pianist you don't need to ask anyone for advanced repertoire...

Dear God..........

Whenever I try to compose something for the piano - and that is just me hitting random notes - I get into a certain groove.

For some odd reason, this Stravinsky piece comes close to what I had in mind while playing. I'm not sure if any of you can notice, but a lot of notes/meassures are repeated in this piece, but in such a way that it fits well together. That's what I do most of the time on the piano: repeat my own random bashing on the piano and go on to the next measure before coming back.

Long story short: I like Stravinsky more now.

Edit:

I don't mean I had the entire piece in mind, just the manner in which it is played.

[davidjosepha]

I am not at the the American intermediate level. I am at what peple in Europe would call, "Intermediate". I am at the advanced level.

I'm a little confused by this. American advanced is the same as European intermediate? Are you implying Europeans have a higher standard than Americans? Also, aren't "intermediate" and "advanced" somewhat arbitrary terms anyway?

Second, was all caps really necessary for the title to this thread? If it was so urgent you get answers, couldn't you have searched through the literally hundreds of threads nearly identical to it with an almost identical list of pieces that the poster claims to be able to play? Assuming this thread is a sincere attempt to find new repertoire, you're definitely going about this in the wrong way. You seem to be looking for pieces that are difficult and will help you show off rather than pieces you actually like. Start listening to classical music and find pieces you like. Put those pieces into two categories: pieces you can play, and pieces you can't play yet. From the pieces you can play, select one. Congratulations, you won't need to make this thread ever again!

[harusame]

I'm a little confused by this. American advanced is the same as European intermediate? Are you implying Europeans have a higher standard than Americans? Also, aren't "intermediate" and "advanced" somewhat arbitrary terms anyway?

i have no idea about american system, but in europe (particularly germany and austria), the entrance exam to the music conservatory is about the level beethoven sonatas and chopin impromptus ( you have to play 1 piece each from 4 different eras baroque, classic, romantic and impressionism or modern)
the exam is harder than ABRSM grade 8 standard, as you must play the entire piece (such as sonata, not just 1st or 3rd mov)

so i guess this is the "advanced" level in europe
anything beyond that would be professional level, as you will be studying music and will graduate and work as a musician
and anything below that is intermediate and beginner

[pytheamateur]

i have no idea about american system, but in europe (particularly germany and austria), the entrance exam to the music conservatory is about the level beethoven sonatas and chopin impromptus ( you have to play 1 piece each from 4 different eras baroque, classic, romantic and impressionism or modern)
the exam is harder than ABRSM grade 8 standard, as you must play the entire piece (such as sonata, not just 1st or 3rd mov)

so i guess this is the "advanced" level in europe
anything beyond that would be professional level, as you will be studying music and will graduate and work as a musician
and anything below that is intermediate and beginner

When I did my Grade 8 ABRSM in the nineties, I had to play a whole sonata for one of the three pieces (there were, as well as I remember, a Beethoven Sonata and a Haydn Sonata, amongst others, to choose from).  Has the ABRSM standard gone down then over the years?

[thepianist09]

La Campanella is probably the hardest there.

I would try lots of Chopin Etudes, as they are fantastic and will improve your technical ability a lot. Try things like 'Thirds' or Op.25 No.2, these are both great and will improve your playing.

If you want to improve your playing beyond measure though, play all the Bach's Preludes and Fugues.

If you want to improve your playing even better than that, even without playing Bach, play Mozart Sonatas and Piano Concertos. That is what I did and that is what made me a pianist.

[harusame]

When I did my Grade 8 ABRSM in the nineties, I had to play a whole sonata for one of the three pieces (there were, as well as I remember, a Beethoven Sonata and a Haydn Sonata, amongst others, to choose from).  Has the ABRSM standard gone down then over the years?

not sure but i did my grade 8 exam in 1997
and i had to play only a part of beethoven sonata as my piece from classical period

the 2013/2014 syllabus still hasn't changed

[pytheamateur]

not sure but i did my grade 8 exam in 1997
and i had to play only a part of beethoven sonata as my piece from classical period

the 2013/2014 syllabus still hasn't changed

I did it in 1996.  Must have changed after then.

[harusame]

well anyway the entrance exam is still way harder than grade 8 exam due to the much bigger pressure


you are given all possible pieces to choose from, which means other candidates will choose their best pieces as well
and the seats in conservatory are limited per year

so you might want play your best, and passed the minimum requirement, but at the end did not pass the exam

[piano1mn]

Hallucination, I know that those pieces are way harder. And yes, Yes. I can never play slowly and I have zero percent dynamics and interpretation. I always play wrong notes. I can not read music. I can only play random notes.  Thank you.   

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Hallucination, I know that those pieces are way harder. And yes, Yes. I can never play slowly and I have zero percent dynamics and interpretation. I always play wrong notes. I can not read music. I can only play random notes.  Thank you.   

Well you are pretty arrogant...

[pianoman53]

Hallucination, I know that those pieces are way harder. And yes, Yes. I can never play slowly and I have zero percent dynamics and interpretation. I always play wrong notes. I can not read music. I can only play random notes.  Thank you.   

So why don't you post some of your playing?
I'm sorry if you feel that people have attacked you, but there has been many trolls here, and to then come and say things like "I can finish the Wanderer fantasy in 5 weeks" doesn't help. To say that one is great, without any form of proof, usually doesn't do well in forums, or anywhere else.

So either you post something of yours, and I don't think people here are immature enough to say that it sucks, (unless you say that Zimmerman looks like a pre-school kid compared to you), or you ask people who actually knows how you play.

[h_chopin148]

Shouldn't you be asking your teacher what you should be playing instead of coming to a forum? Or are you a self taught genius?  No offense...

[JCarey]

How about York Bowen's Toccata Op. 155? Audiences love it; it's very flashy and impressive, rather challenging but extremely pianistic. Though it has some sections that are pretty difficult, it is not nearly as ferociously hard as it seems. Great for competitions, or as an encore.

Here is a recording I posted some time ago. It's definitely a piece worth considering.

[nanabush]

It's funny what people will consider an advanced piece.  For instance, I've been working my butt off at the rep listed in my signature.  The Ravel and Debussy are good, and the first movement of the Scriabin is going well too... however, that damn Rach etude is NUTS!  Comparing it to the 2nd movement of the Scriabin, I find the Rach more devilish.

Maybe consider some short nasty pieces.  You barely have time to get into them, and then they are over, along with your career (joking!).  Chopin's b flat minor prelude, the E flat major, and his more technical etudes still *get to a lot of advanced musicians... obviously a large scale work is a challenge (Liszt sonata, Barber sonata, Rach sonata, a concerto, etc), but a group of short intense pieces can be just as daunting to practice.

I subbed out the Rach and switched to 'Pastorale' by Kapustin.  I like conquering rhythmic challenges more than sheer velocity hurdles.  The Rach worked at a slower pace, but I just got sick of fumbling  ...maybe I'll come back to it.

Liszt études, Debussy études... Allegro de Concert by Chopin, most of the Rach études, Prokofiev sonatas... I can list about a thousand pieces off the top of my head.

[piano1mn]

The 148 year old Chopin, my teacher just does not allow me to play harder pieces. So I did the first 4 pages if Chasse Neige by myself. The rest is too hard. But I will try.

I want NO dissonant music
No Stranvinsky, Hindesmith, Shostakovich, Griffes.

And to the levels of Intermediate and Advanced, there are many Late Intermediate books from San Francisco that would be considered "elementary" in most of the famous Europe.

[senanserat]

Why not something different like the death waltz?

[ale_ius]

I thinks you means ask for pieces that advanced pianists think are challenging no?

This is very difficult etudes, even for players advanced.

-Alee Maire.

[peterw712]

Lyapunov Sonata  - it is beautiful, underplayed and underrated, comparable to Liszt's B minor sonata

[thesixthsensemusic]

The Fantaisie-Impromptu is a piece almost ANYONE will have played, flawlessly, before they could even dream of playing La Campanella or Un Sospiro.

If you're up for a challenge try Schumann's 'Davidsbündlertänze'. 18 short pieces that range from pretty doable to about as hard as the F.I. Plus, it is amongst the most beautiful piano music ever written.

[lojay]

however, that damn Rach etude is NUTS!  Comparing it to the 2nd movement of the Scriabin, I find the Rach more devilish.

Are you saying the Rach is more difficult than the 2nd movement of the Scriabin?

I just spent more than an hour with the Rach Etude because I was curious what someone would find so much more difficult.  With the Rach, I feel that with practice the piece is playable -- there are no portions that are physically impossible.

With the Scriabin, there are passages that no amount of practice will allow me to play as written in tempo. Figures such as the start of measures 4 and 12 of the 2nd movement are just retardedly awkward.

Maybe you can help me:

For the start of measure 4 (and any recurring passages that are similar to this measure), my current fingering is: 1 - 45 - 1 - 45 - 3 - 5 for the first two beats.  With my current fingering I can play it at 5/7th the tempo I want to be at.    What fingering/approach do you use?

If I want to play the piece in tempo, I have to either pedal (which works on some pianos and doesn't on others) or leave a note out and do: 1 - 5 - 1 - 45 - 3 - 5 instead.

Interestingly though, a lot of passagework and rhythms are strikingly similar in both pieces.  If I didn't spend the time I did with the Scriabin, I would have found the Rachmaninoff etude much harder.  Do you have a teacher that assigned these pieces together or did you pick them yourself?

Edit:  Now that I think about it, initially the Scriabin was really awkward; however, by the second day the majority of the awkwardness was gone.  The more I think about, I probably would have felt the same way as you if I learned the Rachmaninoff first since a lot of the technique required for both pieces are very similar.

[j_menz]

For the start of measure 4 (and any recurring passages that are similar to this measure), my current fingering is: 1 - 45 - 1 - 45 - 3 - 5 for the first two beats. 

Have you tried 1-45-1-23-4-5?

[lojay]

Have you tried 1-45-1-23-4-5?

Those were actually the exact fingerings implied by the edition I used at first.  When I started working on this piece a few days ago I remember trying that fingering and thinking, "Impossible...No way to do that fingering in tempo..."

Anyway, I just tried the fingering you suggested and it works!  Since I initially ruled out that fingering, I probably wouldn't have tried it again.  I find it surprising that something changed with my mechanism in just a few days.

Seriously, thank you!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I want NO dissonant music
No Stranvinsky, Hindesmith, Shostakovich, Griffes.

Well that depends on what you consider dissonant.  I see what you did there.  You got scared of the Petrouchka so that's why you said no Stravinsky!!!

Dude just do a Beethoven sonata That'll keep you occupied for a while.

[piano1mn]

Musical sixth sense 12 year old user who is writing to me, Why should I waant the level of Fantasie Impromptu? Something harder than what I listed, but just no Ravel Gaspard de la Nuit or Islamey or Toccatta c# min(Balakirev). Those would be way to hard. Too much tension. Too much difficulty.

[wwalrus]

For someone asking for the help of others, you're really treating the people giving you suggestions like sh*t. Be grateful, and stop acting like you're entitled to everything.

The evidence says you're not quite as advanced as you think you are, and people's suggestions are right on- you may not see it that way, but that's what the reality is. Yes, the idea of playing fantasie impromptu when you're playing la campanella (which, based on the other thread you created, you have not finished or perfected, so it isn't in your program yet) is just not very aware, but some suggestions will be like that.

Try some chopin etudes, like winter wind, ocean, thirds, chromatic.

[patrickd]

Carl Vine's first piano sonata is challenging and insanely cool.

And so are the Brahms Paganini Variations.

[lojay]

Something harder than what I listed, but just no Ravel Gaspard de la Nuit or Islamey or Toccatta c# min(Balakirev). Those would be way to hard. Too much tension. Too much difficulty.

If you can really nail Chasse-neige and La Campanella, tension should not be an issue for you even if you only have the notes for the first 4 pages of the transcendental etude.  In my opinion, you should be ready to tackle pretty much anything, assuming you can actually play the pieces you listed  (faking passages and barely getting through those pieces don't count).

In my opinion, if you're asking for pieces that are more advanced than the Liszt you've played you're pretty much exclusively looking at longer major works if you don't like too much dissonance (think Liszt's Norma Fantasy, Chopin Sonata, Brahms Variations, etc.).

Have you looked through Gaspard and Islamey?  If you haven't gone through them, spend a little time and give them a quick skim/play though.  You might be surprised at how much easier these pieces are than you make them out to be (I'm not saying they're easy though!).

[ale_ius]

Differents waltzes at sames to time with each hands

,Alee Marie

[awesom_o]

THAT is is one cool waltz! How about that for the OP? Advanced enough?

[mjames]

You seem to have quite the ego...

A decent performance of chopin's Op. 62 in B major

hehe
play that
hehe
bet you can't

[lojay]

A decent performance of chopin's Op. 62 in B major

hehe
play that
hehe
bet you can't

Are you saying that op. 62 no. 1 is really difficult to pull off or are you saying that the OP is crap?  Perhaps both?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

There are people who think they're SOOOO on but they're really not (Piano1mm) who are like, 'yo I need a difficult to piece to play because I'm advanced.  Help me out here.'

HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT?!

If you're truly the 'advanced' pianist as you say, you don't need help finding tough stuff to play!

Wanna know why?

Because you already played tough stuff!!!  So you say you can play La Campanella?  Fine, go play some of the TE Etudes or the rest of the Paganini Etudes!  That's 17 pieces right off the back.  You say you can play a Chopin etude?  Fine go play another one.  That's another 23.  You know what Beethoven sonatas are right?  Good!  Put all 32 sonatas in a hat and pick one randomly.  You've heard of Rachmaninoff right?  Play a prelude or something!

Stop trying to pull this bullshit. You're trying to fish for compliments but it ain't working.

[j_menz]

the TE Etudes

You have a PIN number to get your money from the ATM machine, too, don't you?   

You say you can play a Chopin etude?  Fine go play another one.  That's another 23. 

26, please. Les trois nouvelles.

[ajspiano]

You're trying to fish for compliments but it ain't working.

I suspect the real reason we see this kind of question pop up is because posters genuinely believe that they are advanced. However, they also have next to no idea what it actually means to be advanced, and a very limited exposure to piano music on both a listening and playing level..

its just that they know and can do more so than their direct peers, so they think they know more than everyone..

[outin]

I suspect the real reason we see this kind of question pop up is because posters genuinely believe that they are advanced. However, they also have next to no idea what it actually means to be advanced, and a very limited exposure to piano music on both a listening and playing level..

I guess it's the same with piano as many other things: The more you can and know, the less advanced you feel? 

[ajspiano]

I guess it's the same with piano as many other things: The more you can and know, the less advanced you feel? 

Well I spend most of my time depressed by how terrible a pianist I am.

So either I'm actually advanced, or I'm actually terrible but with a keen sense of self observation.

Either way I'm probably going to scream at Etude Op 10/2 again this evening. Its seems to be becoming a theme.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I guess it's the same with piano as many other things: The more you can and know, the less advanced you feel?  

YES!!!

For skating, when I learn a new grind, I'm feeling pretty on right? 

Well I'll turn on the TV and see someone flip into that same grind and then 270 spin out of it or something FIRST TRY in a contest where there's millions of people watching.  And he does it SWITCH. With the pressure of a thousand suns on him!

If you don't know what switch is, try playing a piece completely cross handed.  And if the piece requires you to cross over somewhere, then you uncross it.  That's switch piano playing.  

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Well I spend most of my time depressed by how terrible a pianist I am.

So either I'm actually advanced, or I'm actually terrible but with a keen sense of self observation.

Either way I'm probably going to scream at Etude Op 10/2 again this evening. Its seems to be becoming a theme.

Oh shut up you can play the Rach 3. 

And your other side is a professional pianist.

[j_menz]

Either way I'm probably going to scream at Etude Op 10/2 again this evening. Its seems to be becoming a theme.

Be careful, or you'll be the new Glen Gould (only louder).

[outin]

Be careful, or you'll be the new Glen Gould (only louder).

And no need to play it quite as fast as Glenn...

[ajspiano]

If you don't know what switch is, try playing a piece completely cross handed.  And if the piece requires you to cross over somewhere, then you uncross it.  That's switch piano playing.  

As good an explanation as this was, couldnt you just have said swap from facing left to facing right or vice versa.. so far as how you are positioned on the board while moving in a certain direction.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

As good an explanation as this was, couldnt you just have said swap from facing left to facing right or vice versa.. so far as how you are positioned on the board while moving in a certain direction.

Oh yeah that's right you skate!

Well when you do a trick and then do it switch, people will be like, 'what the heck you just did the same trick...'

NO I DIDN'T!!!  Don't you know how much dark energy I had conjure in order to do this switch!!!

[ajspiano]

Oh yeah that's right you skate!

Well when you do a trick and then do it switch, people will be like, 'what the heck you just did the same trick...'

NO I DIDN'T!!!  Don't you know how much dark energy I had conjure in order to do this switch!!!

Its all good, I will appreciate the difference.

Which I feel is significant, since I'd be lucky to successfully perform and olly with my LH foot at the back.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Its all good, I will appreciate the difference.

Which I feel is significant, since I'd be lucky to successfully perform and olly with my LH foot at the back.

You're goofy?

[j_menz]

olly with my LH foot at the back.

Your Left Hand Foot? 

[ajspiano]

Your Left Hand Foot? 

I guess I'm thinking in piano forum mode..

.............

You're goofy?

I said I would find it harder with my left foot at the back..  it is my understanding that that is goofy, and that is what I find hard.

However, it has been a long time.. I might have forgotten what goofy is.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Your Left Hand Foot? 

I wonder if you're regular.  Cause if you're regular, then that means that you know no stance because ajspiano is goofy!

[j_menz]

I wonder if you're regular.  Cause if you're regular, then that means that you know no stance because ajspiano is goofy!

I have never been on a skateboard in my life, and intend to keep it that way, so I have no idea.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I have never been on a skateboard in my life, and intend to keep it that way, so I have no idea.

Stop digging yourself in the hole!!!  You've almost reached the event horizon!  The point of no return!!!

[j_menz]

Stop digging yourself in the hole!!!  You've almost reached the event horizon!  The point of no return!!!

Is it even possible to dig your way into a black hole?

Not that I know how what I said could be construed in any such way even if it is possible.