I am a horrible pianist

[piano1mn]

I am such a bad pianist! Can someone help me?

[virtuoso80]

I find it odd that you're advanced enough to play all those pieces, but can still lack basic knowledge of other pieces in the advanced repertoire.

[zippi]

Easier Hungarian Rhapsodies/Transcendental Etudes depends on your strengths and weaknesses.

[le_poete_mourant]

I find it odd that you're advanced enough to play all those pieces, but can still lack basic knowledge of other pieces in the advanced repertoire.

Well put. Youtube is an excellent resource, especially since your current repertoire is very generic and I would consider it more intermediate level. What you should do is attempt to broaden your knowledge of the piano literature. Explore Bach 2 and 3 part inventions, Mozart sonatas and variations. Look at some Brahms and Schumann short pieces. Perhaps a Debussy prelude or too.

But certainly we don't need another Fantasie-Impromptu!!

[awesom_o]

  What should be quite challenging for me?
I can play:
Un Sospiro (Liszt)
La Campanella(Liszt)
Fantasie-Impromptu (Chopin)
Ravel- Jeux d'eau
First 4 pages of Chasse-neige(Liszt)
The more pieces, the better!

What makes you so convinced that you're an advanced pianist? I would agree with la_poete_mourant.... from your repertoire it seems like you would be more in the 'intermediate' category.

Anyway, the main thing that separates an advanced pianist from a beginner pianist is HOW they play.... not WHAT they play.....

[piano1mn]

I have played through the Inventions and Sinfonias. And why are you posting comments writing I am a show off?

[unholeee]

have you tried fur elise backwards

[piano1mn]

I've learned it, but not backwards.

[piano1mn]

I am learning: easiest to hardest for technique
Bach/Marcello- Adagio BWV975
Scarlatti- K 141
Mowskowski- Op72 no2
Schubert- Sonata a major D 6__(664?)
Mendelssohn- Concerto in g minor
Ravel- Jeux d'eau
Liszt- Paganini Etude no.3 La Campanella

Have learned-
Liszt- Un Sospiro
Chopin- Fantasie Impromptu
Chopin- Nocturne Op. 9 no.1
Chopin- Nocturne e min'
Chopin- Waltz e min
Scarlatti- K 455; K27; K422; K10
Bach- Menuet in g major, Inventions 6, 8; French Suite no.5- Allemande, Sarabande, Gavotte(with 0 pedal and 100% hold every voice when they tell me)
Nielson- JumpingJacks
Haydn- Sonata no.20; Sonata no.62; Sonata HOB:XVI 7
Schubert- Impromptu Op.90 nos. 2, 3;
Chopin- Nocturne no.20
Gillock- various
MacDowell- Improvisation Op.46 no.4;
Beethoven- Sonata Op.14 no.2; Op.49 no.2
Mozart- K280; K332
Clementi- Op.36 Sonatina no.1; SOnata in f#minor 1st movement
Alexander- Winter Rhapsody
BAch- English Suite no.4- Prelude; Partita no.5- Preludio, Allemande

[piano1mn]

awesom_o, haveth thou jealousy?

[piano1mn]

No you do not. You just can't trust someone online. 

[piano1mn]

What I focus most on is interpretation, but I really need a piece to make me progress now.

[ted]

Perhaps something with some rhythm in it would challenge you. Nothing on your list is especially rhythmic. Try the big Waller solos, the later Scott rags or something by David Thomas Roberts. What about the Rhapsody In Blue ?

[j_menz]

awesom_o, haveth thou jealousy?

It's "hast thou jealousy" - if you're going to be pretentious, also be right. 

What's wrong with doing the remaining pages of Chasse niege before embarking on something else?

I notice your repertoire doesn't include a single fugue. That should be your first next piece. Any fugue (except Chopin's).

And always bear in mind: it's not what you play but how you play it that counts.

[ajspiano]

awesom_o, haveth thou jealousy?

lol.

He's recorded all 24 chopin etudes, to a good standard. Watch your mouth.

[awesom_o]

awesom_o, haveth thou jealousy?

Yes. I am a jealous, bitter, and hateful man.
Your knowledge of the musical arts runneth deep, and thy repertoire is broad.
 

If you want a piece that is truly challenging, try Medtner's Tale op. 14 no. 2

The March of the Paladin!

That's the last thing I practiced today. Have you played any Medtner yet? He was among Rachmaninov's favourite composers and in some ways is actually in a class entirely of his own!

Or if you're REALLY crazy, you could try playing some of MY compositions....

[ajspiano]

I have played through the Inventions and Sinfonias.

This is hardly sufficient.

Play them in all keys, and swap all the voices around into different hands.. and if you can't sing each voice by itself while only playing the other voice(s) then you don't know it well enough.

Take each motif and rewrite the works 3 or 4 times over, significantly differently each time.. Include retrograde in all examples.

Once you've done all that, consider playing them with your toes.

[piano1mn]

OK, I will try. I don't have any Medtner, though. Thanks!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Good luck.

No but yeah for real, if you consider yourself an advanced pianist you don't need to ask anyone for advanced repertoire...

[patrickd]

Alkan!!!

     

[dima_76557]

  What should be quite challenging for me?

Rachmaninov used to warm up with  Paul de Schlözer's Étude in A flat, Op. 1, No. 2:

[j_menz]

Rachmaninov used to warm up with  Paul de Schlözer's Étude in A flat, Op. 1, No. 2:

I think I'd need a lie down after it, rather than feeling warmed up.   

[pianist1976]

  What should be quite challenging for me?
I can play:
Un Sospiro (Liszt)
La Campanella(Liszt)
Fantasie-Impromptu (Chopin)
Ravel- Jeux d'eau
First 4 pages of Chasse-neige(Liszt)
The more pieces, the better!

Do a left hand arrangement of all these if you think they aren't enough challenging for YOU.

[worov]

Check out these :

[piano1mn]

The Alkan probably will be too hard for me . I didn't know you were a jealous man who was spiteful and hateful. Do you have any tips on no.24 Chopin? I'm learning it right now

[pytheamateur]

Play Islamey by Balakirev. In 2005, I saw a 15 year old girl play it at a master class for a famous Russian teacher.  She's now studying at Julliard, but despite this, has remained a drifter between competitions for the past few years, never succeeding in winning any major prizes.  If you consider yourself an advanced pianist, you should be able to learn this in no time.

[awesom_o]

You mean op. 25 no. 12?

It's quite a challenging etude-I certainly hope you're ready for it. This is the kind of stuff you could really damage your long-term progress with if you start it before your technique is ready.

I often tell people-Chopin Etudes are NOT for building technique. Chopin composed them  for pianists who already possessed an advanced technique with the intention being to 'force' them to play more musically.

He only allowed his most advanced students to work on them.

Having said that, if you really think you are ready, I would advise you to practice slowly, without pedal, paying careful attention to the length and tone of each note, while keeping your hands and fingers close to the keyboard at all times.  Go in a tempo that is slow enough that you can maintain 100% accuracy, both rhythmically, and musically. From the beginning of the piece to the end.

Try and keep your eyes focused on the music in front of you, rather than looking down all of the time at your hands.

Each time you depress a key, be sure that the hammer strikes the string with a good, firm blow. But take care not to strike the key surface itself from above with your fingertip. It is better for the finger to be in position on the key before sounding the note, so that the finger can draw the sound out of the instrument in a direct, controlled manner.

[patrickd]

If you want a piece that is truly challenging, try Medtner's Tale op. 14 no. 2

The March of the Paladin!

Second this, nice to see some Medtner recommendations around here . Also his op 51 is very cool as well, especially no 1.

[awesom_o]

Absolutely, the op. 51 is beautiful beyond words.
I'm playing 4 of the 6 from op. 51
All are exquisite and incredibly challenging.

[piano1mn]

I meant the Prelude no.24 Op.28 in d min.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Hey post a video of yourself playing something and we can give you more accurate recommendations...

[piano1mn]

I will find them myself.

[le_poete_mourant]

I didn't watch the video, I only saw the picture preview youtube gave, but I could tell just from the shot of her arm that it was Yuja Wang. Hah! Nobody else in this business has arms like that.

[teran]

Learn the complete Beethoven sonatas,  that should be a good challenge.

If you think they're mostly too easy, then have a go at Op106, Op109, Appassionata, Op110, Op111, or Waldstein.

If you end up saying those aren't a challenge, then you're either delusional or trying to get under people's skin.

[nanabush]

You should learn an extreme sport if 'challenge' and 'technique' are all that matter!!  A common trend on this forum would be the following:

"Hey everyone, I'm an advanced pianist, but these pieces are WaY tOo EASY!:

-Campanella
-Fantaisie Impromptu
-Moonlight 3rd Movement
-Winterwind
-etc

Please suggest something!"

==

Every single post like that comes from people who have only been playing a few years, like to play fast, but have a horrible tone (check the history from the audition room...).  I joined the forum in 2004 when I was in grade 8 or 9, and I was totally like that.  It's shocking how much repertoire is out there, and when you get past playing pieces for the sheer thrill of playing fast, you realize how much there is to piano music. 

I'll suggest some piece SIMILAR to what you are looking for, but I seriously doubt you are actually able to play pieces at the level of La Campanella:

-Liszt 'Preludio' from the 12 Etudes
-Chabrier 'Scherzo Valse'
-Ravel 'Vallée des Cloches'
-Debussy 'le Vent dans la Plaine', or 'Jardins sous la Pluie', or the Prélude from 'pour le piano'
-Chopin 'Nocturne Op. 9 #1', 'Etude Op 10 #5, or 25 #1 or 2', or 'Preludes Op. 28 in C major, G major, C# minor, B major, F major, G minor'
-Kabalevsky, Any of the Preludes
-Shostakovich, Preludes and Fugues (they are AWESOME)
-Prokofiev, any of the Visons Fugitives, or Suggestion Diabolique
-Tchaikovsky, Dumka, or any of the Seasons
-Movement of a Beethoven Piano Concerto???

...Look at those pieces. If you are actually playing the rep you listed, then you are probably able to learn any of these in a few hours (except maybe the Chopin Etudes and some of the Debussy).  If you are comfortable with the level you are at, try approaching the repertoire from a different angle: broaden your horizons, think laterally rather than vertically.  Try finding other composers at the same level as you are rather than HARDER pieces by Chopin/Liszt.

[awesom_o]

Absolutely.

If you want to be a great player, that means playing incredibly well.

To play anything incredibly well is incredibly hard.

If you're a bad player it generally means you play all kinds of difficult music rather badly.

Playing anything badly is rather easy.

[piano1mn]

I've learned his Preludes(except for 24- learning) I've learned Jardins dans l'pluie\. I've learned Concerto 5 II.I've learned his Nocturnes that YOU mentioned. I CAN play things the level of La Campanella and Moonlight Sonata within 2 weeks- 5 months.  Why don't you look at the pieces I've already played? I also started Bach's most famous Prelude and Fugue (book 1 no.2) a few days ago.

[awesom_o]

Good stuff. It sounds as though you may be well on your way to greatness. Why don't you post some awesome recordings over in the audition room? Remember, it's how you play, not what you play, that makes you great.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Good stuff. It sounds as though you may be well on your way to greatness. Why don't you post some awesome recordings over in the audition room? Remember, it's how you play, not what you play, that makes you great.

Lol

[thalbergmad]

And now for the excuses.

I think we have probably seen them all.

Thal

[ahinton]

There are simply so many of these, even if one confines oneself to the century from the date of the Hammerklavier Sonata - enough indeed, to fill many dozens of programmes with Liszt, Alkan, Albéniz, Granados, Lyapunov, Skryabin, Rakhmaninov, Medtner, Godowsky and Busoni alone!

[piano1mn]

OK, everybody:
Is the Wanderer Fantasy by Schubert easy enough to play it well by some time (less than 5 months) but hard enough to challenge me technically for at least about a month?

[pytheamateur]

OK, everybody:
Is the Wanderer Fantasy by Schubert easy enough to play it well by some time (less than 5 months) but hard enough to challenge me technically for at least about a month?

No.

[piano1mn]

No

   
No to which one?

[le_poete_mourant]

NO: The Wanderer Fantasy is by no means "easy" and the chances of you being able to play it will in less than 5 months are slim. It is a piece that will challenge you for your entire life.

[worov]

I've learned his Preludes(except for 24- learning) I've learned Jardins dans l'pluie\. I've learned Concerto 5 II.I've learned his Nocturnes that YOU mentioned. I CAN play things the level of La Campanella and Moonlight Sonata within 2 weeks- 5 months.  Why don't you look at the pieces I've already played? I also started Bach's most famous Prelude and Fugue (book 1 no.2) a few days ago.

Prelude and fugue in c minor from Book 1 ? Why do you play this ? This is Wayy too easy for you. Try a repertoire a bit more challenging. At your level you should be playing the complete Goldberg variations and the Art of fugue !

Try Sorabji's OC. That's something difficult. I think it should be difficult enough for you.

[pianoman53]

Come on people! Don't go there. Why do you keep this thread alive? If he thinks the wanderer fantasy is too easy for him, then why do you even bother? Clearly, he is like 12 years old, who can play fast. He probably has no interest in music that doesn't go really fast. He thinks he can finish a piece within a few months, and be done with it.

Why try to explain what music is about to someone who doesn't care about it?

[outin]

Come on people! Don't go there. Why do you keep this thread alive?

Because threads like this are always a great opportunity to practice sarcasm? 

[ahinton]

Check out these :

Thank you for posting the Carter Sonata. It's getting performances from more pianists now than was once the case. It's a very fine work indeed, for all that it's among his earlier compositions; Carter was nothing if not a slow developer - he was already in his latter 30s when he wrote this piece and it dates from well before what one coould consider to be his matiruty. I've commended it at various times to Marc-André Hamelin, Jonathan Powell and Donna Amato, of whom I suspect that the last-named would find that it suits her especially well, but none seems yet to have taken up the challenge - and serious challenge it is! What is perhaps particularly remarkable about it is its clear understanding of certain things that work really well on the piano, despite the composer being a non-pianist (he could play a little, of course, but he was hardly what you'd call a pianist per se - he also played the oboe, although I have no knowledge of his level of proficiency at it). As mid-20th century American piano sonatas go, this work is a big-boned virtuosic piece quite different to - but well worthy of being considered alongside - the much more widely known (and also pretty challenging!) Barber piano sonata and its expressive range is much wider than that of the cramped and crabby Copland piano sonata (in my view).

Best,

Alistair

[harusame]

  What should be quite challenging for me?
I can play:
Un Sospiro (Liszt)
La Campanella(Liszt)
Fantasie-Impromptu (Chopin)
Ravel- Jeux d'eau
First 4 pages of Chasse-neige(Liszt)
The more pieces, the better!

La Campanella and Jeux d'eau are significantly harder than Un Sospiro and FI