Saint Sans

[hodi]

I have a music encyclopedia that says that although saint sans was extremly gifted and very professional composer, he wasted his time on dull ideas..

what do they mean?
can you explain?

[Hmoll]

I have a music encyclopedia that says that although saint sans was extremly gifted and very professional composer, he wasted his time on dull ideas..

what do they mean?
can you explain?

Easy. He was sans good ideas.

[Floristan]

LOL.  And totally sans souci

[Floristan]

Seriously, Hodi -- just listen to a lot of Saint Saens at one sitting, and I think you'll begin to understand the encyclopedia entry.  He has a gift for melody, and he knows how to get from place A to place B, but it's almost like he's a textbook composer.  He does everything right, but nothing unexpected or inspired.  This is what, in my mind, distinguishes the good from the great composers.  Great composers follow the rules only to bend, stretch, break, warp, distort, enhance, embellish, exaggerate, and above all surprise us with what they do with and within those rules.  Rules for them are just  framework for their endlessly inventive ideas.  Good composers, like Saint Saens, were content working entirely within the rules, writing pretty tunes, appropriate developments, predictable climaxes, and no surprises...often with pleasing results, like a chocolate mousse.  Light, airy, very tasty, and forgotten so fast.  Ultimately, despite his gifts, one is left feeling that Saint Saens is a musical lightweight.

[apion]

He has a gift for melody, and he knows how to get from place A to place B, but it's almost like he's a textbook composer.  He does everything right, but nothing unexpected or inspired.  This is what, in my mind, distinguishes the good from the great composers.  Great composers follow the rules only to bend, stretch, break, warp, distort, enhance, embellish, exaggerate, and above all surprise us with what they do with and within those rules.  Rules for them are just  framework for their endlessly inventive ideas.  Good composers, like Saint Saens, were content working entirely within the rules, writing pretty tunes, appropriate developments, predictable climaxes, and no surprises...often with pleasing results, like a chocolate mousse.  Light, airy, very tasty, and forgotten so fast.  Ultimately, despite his gifts, one is left feeling that Saint Saens is a musical lightweight.

Oh, you are so wrong.           Saint-Saens was a great composer, par excellence!  Have you listened to his piano concertos 2, 4 and 5?  They're great masterpieces! 

[steinwayguy]

Saint-Saens is mostly unadulterated rubbish. I have yet to hear anything decent by him.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Double post... Read below.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Saint-Saens is mostly unadulterated rubbish. I have yet to hear anything decent by him.

I'm am curious as to if you have ever heard his Organ Symphony? It is one of the most beautiful works ever written, in my opinion. I would be greatly surprised if you didn't like that.

Could you please provide reasons why you don't like Saint-Saens rather than dismissing his music as rubbish? What do you think music needs to make it decent?

[apion]

I'm am curious as to if you have ever heard his Organ Symphony? It is one of the most beautiful works ever written, in my opinion. I would be greatly surprised if you didn't like that.

Could you please provide reasons why you don't like Saint-Saens rather than dismissing his music as rubbish? What do you think music needs to make it decent?

The Organ Symphony is indeed a superlative masterpiece.

[iumonito]

A point of principle: it is a good idea not to open your mouth if you have nothing intelligent to say.  Asking a question is intelligent, so no blame in that.  Answering a question stupidly, though, is a sin from which something can be learned: to remain quiet.

Saint-Saens, the author of probably the two most perfect, beautiful and vivacious piano concerti (I mean 2 and 4), the daring author of Sampson et Dalila, the Carnival of Animals and the Danse Macabre, the irrestible spirit behind the organ symphony, cannot be called anything but genius, master, great gifter of music for all nations and generations.

Prolific, yes.  Sometimes not very selective, also true.  Composed as easily as an apple tree gives apples, true.  You certain cannot blame him for lacking the obsessions that lead the geniuses of Dukas, Brahms and Chausson, to name a few, to destroy 90% of what they wrote, and those of Beethoven, Mahler and Prokofiev to rework each measure 10,000 times.

Saint-Saens, by the way, was the teacher of the likes of Godowsky, Faure, Debussy and Ravel; the first modern scholar to edit the works of Rameau and Couperin, and a proficient aficionado to math and astronomy.

A silly book may think this is dull.  I think the book is dull.  Get some music and judge for yourself.  Say, for example, the bassoon sonata, the left hand etudes, his christmas oratorio and the third violin concerto.  You will discover champagne.

[apion]

A point of principle: it is a good idea not to open your mouth if you have nothing intelligent to say.  Asking a question is intelligent, so no blame in that.  Answering a question stupidly, though, is a sin from which something can be learned: to remain quiet.

Saint-Saens, the author of probably the two most perfect, beautiful and vivacious piano concerti (I mean 2 and 4), the daring author of Sampson et Dalila, the Carnival of Animals and the Danse Macabre, the irrestible spirit behind the organ symphony, cannot be called anything but genius, master, great gifter of music for all nations and generations.

Prolific, yes.  Sometimes not very selective, also true.  Composed as easily as an apple tree gives apples, true.  You certain cannot blame him for lacking the obsessions that lead the geniuses of Dukas, Brahms and Chausson, to name a few, to destroy 90% of what they wrote, and those of Beethoven, Mahler and Prokofiev to rework each measure 10,000 times.

Saint-Saens, by the way, was the teacher of the likes of Godowsky, Faure, Debussy and Ravel; the first modern scholar to edit the works of Rameau and Couperin, and a proficient aficionado to math and astronomy.

A silly book may think this is dull.  I think the book is dull.  Get some music and judge for yourself.  Say, for example, the bassoon sonata, the left hand etudes, his christmas oratorio and the third violin concerto.  You will discover champagne.

Bravo -- excellent post.    Saint-Saens' PCs 2 and 4 are marvellous, as are the other works you've mentioned ....... and he has many other masterpieces that you haven't mentioned!