Idil Biret

[pianopoet]

What is the general concensus among all you musicians about Idil Biret? I own her complete Rachmaninov and Brahms and would like to know what other musicians think of her. Personally, I feel she has a good technique but her tempi are often ridiculously slow! Her Chopin Ballade #4 is among the greatest in my opinion but her etudes are not. Far from it actually... Let me know what you think...!

[fnork]

Since I'm playing some Rachmaninov myself, my teacher has told me that her Rachmaninov concerts are really really good... Haven't heard them yet, but I would like to hear them. My teacher said that she plays them great, and "she has the courage to play them slower than anyone else"..

[Spatula]

Too damn slow

[liszt1022]

I have her Symphonie Fantastique, and it's just AWFUL. I can't do better myself, but that doesn't mean I have to like how she butchered it.

[allchopin]

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3616.0.html
Nice research  ...

[liszt1022]

wow what's amazing is donjuan's opinion of Biret's recording of the Berlioz fantastique is completely opposite mine (which is OK)... I'd post a list of my complaints about it one of these days.

[pseudopianist]

I said it eariler in the other thread about:

Idil is my favourit pianist. Her interpitation is  truely amazing, esp her Chopin.  Sure her technique is lacking somethings but can you blame her? Look at that repotoire!! Her Chopin etudes on the other hand... YIIKES!

 :'(I wish I had her recording of the Chopin preludes.

[cziffra777]

The only thing I've heard of Biret is her set of Rachmaninoff preludes on Naxos. I wasn't impressed at all.

[ramseytheii]

I said it eariler in the other thread about:

Idil is my favourit pianist. Her interpitation is  truely amazing, esp her Chopin.  Sure her technique is lacking somethings but can you blame her? Look at that repotoire!! Her Chopin etudes on the other hand... YIIKES!

 :'(I wish I had her recording of the Chopin preludes.

Huh? technique is lacking?  She plays anything and everything.  She learnt all of the Beethoven-Liszt symphonies from memory, in addition to all of the Ligeti etudes and all of the Boulez sonatas.  And the complete works of Chopin, Schumann, Rachmaninoff, Brahms, am I forgetting anybody?

Walter Ramsey

[stevie]

Huh? technique is lacking?  She plays anything and everything.  She learnt all of the Beethoven-Liszt symphonies from memory, in addition to all of the Ligeti etudes and all of the Boulez sonatas.  And the complete works of Chopin, Schumann, Rachmaninoff, Brahms, am I forgetting anybody?

Walter Ramsey

yes, but how is this supposed to contradict the claims of her lack of technique?

[ramseytheii]

yes, but how is this supposed to contradict the claims of her lack of technique?

Because if she didn't have the technique to play all this music (the Liszt transcriptions are considered the most difficult of his entire output) she wouldn't have recorded them, and wouldn't have been able to learn them at all.

Walter Ramsey

[burstroman]

She is a good, solid musician who doesn't go for just the showy brilliance but searches for the musical meaning.  I don't agree with all of her ideas but find them musical, nonetheless.

[ivoryplayer_amf]

I dispise the idea that something can be played too slow.  In a culture where speed means everything we tend to think of that when we hear music also and its just cause to show how shallow our generation is getting.  Now that I've said that, let me say this...if the person were playing it slow because they did not practice it well enough, thats different.  But to say that a professional played something too slow and then judge them on that is just plain stupid and shallow!  You have to realize that interpretation is different for EVERYONE!  There are many things like La Campanella that I think should be taken slower then they normally are (Kissin comes to mind) but it doesnt mean that I judge his as a pianist because of this...he simply has interpreted the piece in a way that I wouldnt have.

[burstroman]

Right on, Ivory, Schnabel plays some Beethoven very slowly and beautifully.  Our generation can't stand slow contemplation.

[pies]

I can't stand Biret's Ligeti etudes recording. Soo slow. I want to punch her in the face for playing them so slow.

[Kassaa]

Right on, Ivory, Schnabel plays some Beethoven very slowly and beautifully.  Our generation can't stand slow contemplation.

Slow because of beauty is something else than slow because of a lacking technique. Her Ligeti etudes are too slow because of a lacking technique.

[ivoryplayer_amf]

Slow because of beauty is something else than slow because of a lacking technique. Her Ligeti etudes are too slow because of a lacking technique.

But how in God's name could you possibly know this!?  I dont understand people who say....Oh so and so sucks because this professional who has made it better then I have so far doesnt have TECHNIQUE!  How is this possible.  Dont get me wrong...if you can prove it then I'll back ya, but a comment like that without proof (And that person playing in general isnt proof, I mean hard core no doubt left proof!) is just ridiculous!

[stevie]

Because if she didn't have the technique to play all this music (the Liszt transcriptions are considered the most difficult of his entire output) she wouldn't have recorded them, and wouldn't have been able to learn them at all.

Walter Ramsey

her chopin etudes indicate she has solid technique, but thinking that because she plays alot of repertoire must mean she has a 'great technique' is ludicrous.

she has a solid technique, no more, no less.

But how in God's name could you possibly know this!?  I dont understand people who say....Oh so and so sucks because this professional who has made it better then I have so far doesnt have TECHNIQUE!  How is this possible.  Dont get me wrong...if you can prove it then I'll back ya, but a comment like that without proof (And that person playing in general isnt proof, I mean hard core no doubt left proof!) is just ridiculous!

its quite obvious when you hear the struggle.

[pies]

I would attribute her slow playing to a lackluster technique. While there are pieces that can be played at different speeds without much controversy, Ligeti etudes are meant to be played fast. Ligeti even gave time length suggestions for each of the etudes, and she goes well over these limits for all of them.

[minor9th]

Her complete Firebird is stupefyingly boring. I heard that Gilels also recorded it--is that disc available?

[ramseytheii]

her chopin etudes indicate she has solid technique, but thinking that because she plays alot of repertoire must mean she has a 'great technique' is ludicrous.

she has a solid technique, no more, no less.

Well, I guess it depends on the repertoire.  It seems you are passionate about this issue, but I wonder why?  I don't see why it is so important to insist that Idil Biret does not have a good technique.  Some people who have huge technique record many pieces "just because they can."  Or why did they climb Everest, "Because it was there."  I have never known someone to learn all the Beethoven-Liszt symphonies (listen to them), complete works of Chopin, complete works of Rachmaninoff, etc., "just because they can't."  Idil Biret is no John Rusnak.  She plays what she can, and that is - everything.

Walter Ramsey

[bflatminor24]

You guys are a bunch of *** pussies. Yeah, in the end it doesn't matter what we think because she makes money and loves playing piano. Woohoo.

But that doesn't lend itself to a discussion, right? Why debate anything at all? Everything happens anyway, what difference does it make if we talk about it? That's the logical conclusion drawn from everything I've read. Wow guys, way to lead a discussion...don't criticize because YOU can't do as well as she!

Since when do you have to be able to do a better job to criticize? That's ridiculous. You think music critics can play music better than the musicians? Of course not! That doesn't invalidate their opinions!

You argue that there is no perfection, so we should dismiss all levels of quality, because none of them are perfect? What kind of illogic is that? That's horseshit. Yeah nobody is perfect, but there are shades of grey, and some are a lot better than others.

Horowitz wasn't perfect, and neither am I, so I guess if you compare me to Horowitz, it's just a matter of taste, right? Pussies.

There is nothing wrong with criticizing someone's style or lack of technique. After all it's only a discussion, this is all inconsequential ANYWAY. That being said, I think Biret plays too slowly and too romantically, her interpretations are not as carefully thought out as others, say Ashkenazy, or Hamelin. I don't think she comes close to their calibur of playing. I like some of her Brahms playing because Brahms should be played more slowly since it's very brainy, intellectual music and doesn't demand speed-demon virtuosity like Rachmaninoff and Liszt.

I don't like her style overall, and she lacks technique. If you want good recordings, resort to Richter, Michelangeli, Gilels, Hamelin, Ashkenazy, Perahia, Arrau, Rubinstein, Goode, Wild, and other pianists with a much more formidable technique and superior interpretative style.

[Waldszenen]

Overall, I find most of her recordings to be a massive joke. Technique notwithstanding, it seems she has no understanding of what "tempo giusto" means (where required), her use (or misuse) of rubato is inscrutable, her expression is bland, her phrasing and pedalling are atrocious and she can make even the most beautiful pieces sound vulgar.

No wonder she plays for Naxos.

[thorn]

I can't stand Biret's Ligeti etudes recording. Soo slow. I want to punch her in the face for playing them so slow.

I have that recording of the Ligeti etudes, but its my only one so i cant really say much. Can anyone suggest a better performer?

[jre58591]

I have that recording of the Ligeti etudes, but its my only one so i cant really say much. Can anyone suggest a better performer?

pierre-laurent aimard and fredrik ullén both do a nice job on this and the other ligeti pieces.

[captain cook]

Overall, I find most of her recordings to be a massive joke. Technique notwithstanding, it seems she has no understanding of what "tempo giusto" means (where required), her use (or misuse) of rubato is inscrutable, her expression is bland, her phrasing and pedalling are atrocious and she can make even the most beautiful pieces sound vulgar.

No wonder she plays for Naxos.

I 100% agree with you on that one. If she was as good as many of you here think, she wouldn`t be recording for Naxos. Don`t get me wrong, some good young artists recorded for Naxos. But they moved to higher-end labels later on. It wasn`t her case and there is a reason for that.

cc

[captain cook]

Another thing is calling slow playing an interpretation. It might be one if you do it in one or two pieces. But if you play slowly all technically difficult pieces/sections, don`t you think it`s just technical disability.

cc

[ramseytheii]

I 100% agree with you on that one. If she was as good as many of you here think, she wouldn`t be recording for Naxos. Don`t get me wrong, some good young artists recorded for Naxos. But they moved to higher-end labels later on. It wasn`t her case and there is a reason for that.
Another thing is calling slow playing an interpretation. It might be one if you do it in one or two pieces. But if you play slowly all technically difficult pieces/sections, don`t you think it`s just technical disability.

cc

There are a lot of pianists who are great artists, that did not have big careers, or big recording contracts.  I am not saying Idil Biret is a great artist, but it is not a foolproof way of judging.  There are probably great pianists out there, dead or alive, and people have their recordings, and you and I have never heard of them.  Oh well!
Who plays slowly all technically difficult pieces?  Idil Biret?  Clearly you haven't even listened to her recordings.  Anyways that is too blanket a statement to make about anybody, except for maybe John Resnack.

Walter Ramsey

[thaicheow]

I feel a strong repulsion against any criticism on Idil Biret.

Sorry to say that. I have been listening to her music ever since my tertiary in engineering. I remebered how I hate doing engineering, but no choice as it was my parents' wish. I felt so tense and pressurised in my last year, as I was struggling for my Final Year Project.

I listened to idil's playing on chopin, almost everyday, to seek console. At that time, Naxos still open their recording online for full listening, free of charge.

I went to listen to her live in 2004 Singapore Piano Festival. I have to admit hers wasnt the best among all the pianists who came that year. But her rendition on Chopin's Fantasy Impromtu almost brought me to tears. I waited patiently after the concert, to seek her autograph and express my gratitude to her. I shook her hands, and my gosh, what a small hands she had and I keep wondering how does she play big work like Rach, Brahms, Chopin, Listz etc.

I have to admit her playing is not technically superb, compare to some Warsaw winners (like Martha, or Polini), but I have to say, her playing has the touch, the sense of a HUMAN playing.  Polini's playing is too clean, too crisp, overwhelmingly precise, like a rendition from a machine. Strange is that, later, I find out that the same comment has been given to Wilhem Kepff, one of idil's mentor.

Idil definitely deserves some credit, even not in quality, but in the quantity. She finish all piano repertoire by Chopin, and many more.

Idil is always my idol, no matter what critics say against her. To me, she has meant a lot to me, as she has showed me what a great thing one can achieve with great determination. Please spare her. If there is any of her life performance that I can reach in distance, I will be the first to buy the ticket. Anyway, her current recital in Carnergie hall was full house.

[Waldszenen]

It's not that she's a bad pianist, per se (after all, it takes a lot of talent to learn the complete repertoire of Chopin, Brahms and Rachmaninoff, amongst others), but she's just nowhere near as good as she could be.

She's got technique, sure, but maybe that's about it. That's her problem. And even then her technique isn't that good either (her Chopin Etudes will tell you why).