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Topic: Would anyone like to tell me what is wrong with me?!  (Read 1995 times)

Offline mosis

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Would anyone like to tell me what is wrong with me?!
on: November 01, 2004, 11:19:17 PM
The problem: the dodecatuplet near the end of Chopin's 9/1 nocturne.

I practiced it properly. No skipped steps. No shortcuts. No inconsistencies. Had it mastered. Absolutely perfect. Could play it whenever. Guess what?

I CAN'T PLAY IT ANYMORE!

Why? Why is this so? What has happened? This nocturne was mastered and it keeps falling apart? I keep making mistakes? WHY CAN'T I JUST BE A GOOD PIANIST? :(

Offline mound

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what the *** is wrong with me?!
Reply #1 on: November 02, 2004, 02:04:36 AM
don't be so hard on yourself man! ignore it for a few days, and then go to another complete repeteated note group set on it.. perhaps that will help!

Offline mosis

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what the *** is wrong with me?!
Reply #2 on: November 02, 2004, 02:17:02 AM
But that's the thing. I've done the repeated note set and all that crap, and as Bernhard says, "I have it mastered and don't need to practice it again." Why the *** did it just break apart like that?

Offline jlh

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what the *** is wrong with me?!
Reply #3 on: November 02, 2004, 02:18:33 PM
Just a little advice...  there is not a point at which you will ever know a song well enough to never practice it.  Probably the most dangerous point in learning a new song is the point at which it is so called "mastered" and you feel you should be able to just play it perfectly every time with no more practice.   You must be relentless in practicing, or the piece will win.  Never allow yourself to get to the point at which you feel you know the music well enough to stop practicing, or it WILL fall apart.

Like mound said, take a bit of a break, and then start practicing again.  Just don't play it every time like you'd perform it, or little errors are bound to pop up.

My $.02 worth...
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Offline mound

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what the *** is wrong with me?!
Reply #4 on: November 02, 2004, 02:43:59 PM
But that's the thing. I've done the repeated note set and all that crap, and as Bernhard says, "I have it mastered and don't need to practice it again." Why the *** did it just break apart like that?

I hear ya.. Remember though, the stuff Bernhard talks about isn't some "magic pill" that if you do it, and do it correctly, you will forever have your passage mastered.. It's a very sound approach, one that (for me at least, and clearly for him and his students) is working quite well. But the nature of forums and all, it's not really meaningfull for him to try to outline these methods and include all of the exceptions.. I'm sure his students deal with these kinds of things, but of course he's not toing to outline every place where everything he has said has failed for any given student of his.  He's outlined the overall approach to the level of detail that is meaningful in writing.  Of course things will fall apart, and you'll have to put them back together.. You're human..  I'm sure these types of things happen with his students as well (though I can't be sure, I'm just assuming) but he's outlined the approach.  There's a chunk of my piece where I play octaves in both hands, a repeating pattern, cascading down like 5 octaves very quickly.. I've done all the tricks and repeated chord group sets etc.. had it mastered.. played perfectly the next day, and just as you, had it fall completely apart.. So I did it again.. and it still falls apart..  I just have to keep at it.

Remember, these methods are best for quickly learning the notes, getting them in your fingers. Like jlh said, you still have to be relentless in practicing the performance etc..

just keep at it.. use "Bernards Method" for all the great efficiency it will give to you, but don't expect it to be a magic pill that will simply allow you to play perfectly every time.. It will speed up the process greatly, and that's the worth of it, but it still takes alot of work and you're only human so of course there will be false starts..  (unless there is yet still something I'm missing in his approach, but I don't think that's the case)

-Paul


Offline mosis

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what the *** is wrong with me?!
Reply #5 on: November 02, 2004, 08:11:59 PM
Hmm, yeah, I've been thinking the same things. Bernhard has outlined several times that "This will work best if I'm beside you during every practice session telling you exactly what to do," and that is clearly not the case. I guess I'll just leave it for a bit and come back to it again another time.

Offline johnnypiano

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what the *** is wrong with me?!
Reply #6 on: November 02, 2004, 08:44:18 PM
HI!  Don't scrunch yourself up about this.  (1) we all have days, even weeks, off.
(2) the human memory is a strange thing.  We think we know something, or even someone's name or phone number then, on  a certain day we just can't remember them. 

Go back to the piece with a cool head and go as slowly over that passage as you did when you first worked on it, and try not to think of failures.  You DO KNOW it really; you just have to take the passage out and dust it off.  And try and pretend you are Chopin - and make the two parts aim for the same point without worrying too much what is happening half-way through.
 ::) ;)
All the best John

Spatula

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what the *** is wrong with me?!
Reply #7 on: November 02, 2004, 10:47:47 PM
I call those Blah Days

Offline Daniel_piano

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what the *** is wrong with me?!
Reply #8 on: November 14, 2004, 03:22:48 PM
The problem: the dodecatuplet near the end of Chopin's 9/1 nocturne.

I practiced it properly. No skipped steps. No shortcuts. No inconsistencies. Had it mastered. Absolutely perfect. Could play it whenever. Guess what?

I CAN'T *** PLAY IT ANYMORE!

Why? Why is this so? What has happened? This nocturne was mastered and it keeps falling apart? I keep making mistakes? WHY CAN'T I JUST BE A GOOD PIANIST? :(

Mosis, has this happened to you again or you have solved this problem?
Strangely, it's happening the same thing to me
I've practiced half a piece using chord attacks, repeated note groups, slow motion and outlining and now the piece is completely crewed up
I think day by day it was improving instead now I can't play it anymore, and ven though I know the notes well my hand keep missing notes or blocking in certain point

I've come back just for the moment to my old "increades speed notch by nocth practice" and it seems it is improving
I don't know what to say
If eventually I don't understand well what to do or how to solve these problem, I think I will have to give up and stop trying use this method
 :-[

Daniel


"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""

Offline Sketchee

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Re: Would anyone like to tell me what is wrong with me?!
Reply #9 on: November 15, 2004, 01:03:54 AM
Remember, it was actually said that you'd have it "for life" when you'd forgotten the piece complete for six months to a year then relearned from scratch. Then, possibly forgotten and relearned it a third time ("without skipping steps" when relearning). 

I don't know how practical it is; I suppose if you're learning as many pieces a month as was suggested possible than forgetting a few for a year would be reasonable.  However, that also means working in pieces at or below your current level and/or building up your skill set to learn the new pieces as well.  For example, there are pieces that I can sightread and memorize in a night like a Chopin Waltz (learning the musical nuances aside). However, a Liszt Concert Etude or Chopin Nocturne would take me more study and practice.  Then again Martha Argerich, who I don't know what kind of method she's using,  learned Gaspard de la nuit in a two weeks...

It's good to evaluate your progress, and work from where you are.  Try not to get frustrated.  There will be times when you have to take two steps forward and then one step back.  This is normal and doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.  You've still averaged one step forward.  That's progress.  (Sometimes two or three steps back, that's life. :) )  Re-practicing should go easier--not necessarily faster--than when the first time you learned it.
Sketchee
https://www.sketchee.com [Paintings. Music.]
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