Help with dilemma - which piano!?

[trus]

Hi all, need a bit of your advice.

I have been trying a few pianos yesterday and recorded a few videos of me playing. Can you please let me know about what you think of tone, etc and all my pros and cons I will list next to the ones I am thinking about.

First, the one I really well in love with, 5ft2 Danemann from around 1960s.
Pros - price ticks the box, love the sound, love the touch of the keys when playing certain pieces.
Cons - really struggled to control bass keys in pp, p or mf range, especially black, it seems sometimes that I asked for p and don't get anything or ask for f and get fortissimo.  Once damper used it is all a bit too "ringing"?
Videos of it as follows:
Fur Elise on Danemann

Prelude 28 no 4 on Danemann

The heart asks pleasure first

Second - Kawaii K4
Pros - new, pretty much indestructible, will last ages, will not require as much maintenance as older piano.
Cons - on the top range of my budget, keyboard to me felt really stiff (may that will something I can get used to!?), don't quite like the sound of it...

Videos as follows:

Fur Elise on Kawaii:

Prelude op 28 no 4 on Kawaii

The heart asks pleasure first on Kawaii

Bechstein, a beatiful old 5ft6 (I think!!?) grand.

Pros - Love the sound and the keys easier to control than in any other piano I tried.,better than any other piano I tried, look beautiful, a real piece of character.
Cons - slightly over the budget I had in mind, will require more maintenance.

I only have one video to show as others didn't turn out well.

Chopin's prelude op 28 no 4

Please don't judge perfomance -wise, I literally sat and played adjusting as I go along.
My fingers nearly fell off, by the time I got on to the last piano I was there for nearly 1,5 hours. I also cannot believe what a difference it is playing a proper piano or a digi. My muscles weren't ready to work those bass keys, lol!

I am definite that I will now go for an acoustic and will use my digi on rare occasions, where I have to take the piano with me.

Please let me know what you think!!! Need your opinions!

thanks a lot.

[hfmadopter]

Hmm, the charm of an old grand piano vs a new upright ? You have to love the piano, the one that you sit at and feel as though you could just play it and play it is your piano. Put the cost out of the equation just for the time being and decide that much. Then get realistic after ! I say that because even if one of these doesn't work out for you then you at least have an idea of what it is you like about your choice and can move on from there.

That said, you are correct in that older pianos will require more tlc. Actually both grands in your recordings had a fair amount of ring to them. Something to keep in mind when playing a grand with pedal is that it is not a digital at all. Learning pedal all over again will be part of ownership. With Acoustic Piano's and perhaps more so yet, grands, you need to learn to go very lightly on pedal generally by comparison with digital. It's as though you can't get enough pedal with digital and with the grand/acoustic it's just a light feathering of pedal. I just went back on my grand after quite some time working with my digital ( new to me this year) and ran into this right away. With my digital I'm always trying to get a touch more pedal it seems, my grand requires so little. By the same token, much depends on the pedal adjustment as well.

Beyond that with acoustic, there is in tune and then there is finely in tune. Big difference ! None of your examples sounded finely in tune to me but that could be the recording as well. A piano starting to fall out of tune can well ring and then some other sounds too. With my grand I have a couple of notes that take some very fine persuasion to get them to sound really nice, middle C being one.

If you think you want to own one of those grands, do have an independent technician check it out before purchase. You want to know just exactly as well as is within reason what condition piano you are buying into.

The Bechstein is likely the more mellow piano but I suspect there is also good potential in the Danemann. As acoustics get larger the bass gets stronger but that's a good thing !! You need to learn to adjust and it may need voicing as well. Also the top down is way different sounding than with the top up on grands. Again, dependent on condition.

On a final note, there must be wiggle room if that is a dealer sale on used pianos and perhaps so on the upright as well ? I'm sorry to say that via internet connection there is no way to know exactly the condition of any of these pianos and that is a must know in order to recommend one. So read over what I said again ! maybe someone else can add something more to my thoughts for you.

[silverwoodpianos]

I didn’t watch the videos, because it does not matter what I think; what matters is what you think.

Purchase the instrument you like the tone of after you have had your favorite local technician inspect for present mechanical condition and then local market value.

[trus]

Hmm, the charm of an old grand piano vs a new upright ? You have to love the piano, the one that you sit at and feel as though you could just play it and play it is your piano. Put the cost out of the equation just for the time being and decide that much. Then get realistic after ! 

ha ha, yes, that's a problem, getting back to the reality!

That said, you are correct in that older pianos will require more tlc. Actually both grands in your recordings had a fair amount of ring to them. Something to keep in mind when playing a grand with pedal is that it is not a digital at all. Learning pedal all over again will be part of ownership. With Acoustic Piano's and perhaps more so yet, grands, you need to learn to go very lightly on pedal generally by comparison with digital. It's as though you can't get enough pedal with digital and with the grand/acoustic it's just a light feathering of pedal. I just went back on my grand after quite some time working with my digital ( new to me this year) and ran into this right away. With my digital I'm always trying to get a touch more pedal it seems, my grand requires so little. By the same token, much depends on the pedal adjustment as well.

Yes, I was kinda shocked about the pedal, I could not sass out what was going on lol/ It's been nearly 20 years since I played a real acoustic piano or grand piano. My digital, as you say, need pedal on nearly all the time, and you have to really press hard on it.

Beyond that with acoustic, there is in tune and then there is finely in tune. Big difference ! None of your examples sounded finely in tune to me but that could be the recording as well. A piano starting to fall out of tune can well ring and then some other sounds too. With my grand I have a couple of notes that take some very fine persuasion to get them to sound really nice, middle C being one.

If you think you want to own one of those grands, do have an independent technician check it out before purchase. You want to know just exactly as well as is within reason what condition piano you are buying into.

I am afraid to acknowledge that I do know anymore what is a perfectly in tune anymore!? I need to play on the one which is perfectly in tune then I would know.. I assumed that was the tuning to the concert pitch, as per UK standards.
I found it interesting that some keys had different "persuasion" requirements, I thought it was not normal, but I have never really played on an instrument that old, and even if I had similar experience on more modern pianos at my music school, I don't remember it now, been a while. It was nice to be reminded. Thanks

Also, those people who sell them, they are really nice honest traders, a family run business which has been there for 30 years now, they recondition and restore the pianos themselves, I had a look around their workshop. They would take the piano back and exchange or refund should I am not happy with something. Both grands have been reconditioned, the Bechstein was restrung too and had some case work done to it. 

The Bechstein is likely the more mellow piano but I suspect there is also good potential in the Danemann. As acoustics get larger the bass gets stronger but that's a good thing !! You need to learn to adjust and it may need voicing as well. Also the top down is way different sounding than with the top up on grands. Again, dependent on condition.

On a final note, there must be wiggle room if that is a dealer sale on used pianos and perhaps so on the upright as well ? I'm sorry to say that via internet connection there is no way to know exactly the condition of any of these pianos and that is a must know in order to recommend one. So read over what I said again ! maybe someone else can add something more to my thoughts for you.

Thanks a lot for your help!

[trus]

I didn’t watch the videos, because it does not matter what I think; what matters is what you think.

Purchase the instrument you like the tone of after you have had your favorite local technician inspect for present mechanical condition and then local market value.

Thanks!

[hfmadopter]

Well trus, I don't know how much help I really was but hopefully some at least !

Regarding key pressure or down weight, it should feel fairly even from one key to the next but over the 88 keys the lower bass will feel heavier than the upper treble. Talk with the people at the store about your concerns, where they rebuild pianos anyway I'm sure they could more finely regulate the piano of your choice. However, I would expect the older grand, if from the 1800's, to have a bit slower action than a later one.

RE tuning. One can tune a piano, it will meter out fine on a digital read out and still not quite be there. When you break down the unisons you then find a string here and there that are not quite in tune ( regardless of where you started in pitch, concert or otherwise). That's what I meant in my comment above, not so much if the piano is up to A440 standard or not but harmonizing well and tuned with perfect unisons. That will help bring out clarity, tone within a given voicing etc. Most likely if both pianos are rebuilt they have not had final massaging yet anyway. Again talk with the dealer about the piano of most interest to you.

[gyzzzmo]

As mentioned before, you should choose what -you- like. Spend a lot of time playing your favourite pieces on them and try to determine which touche and sound you like the most. Every pianist has his own preferences so there's not much point in saying what you should buy according to our own taste.

[withindale]

Please see PM.

[trus]

Well trus, I don't know how much help I really was but hopefully some at least !

Regarding key pressure or down weight, it should feel fairly even from one key to the next but over the 88 keys the lower bass will feel heavier than the upper treble. Talk with the people at the store about your concerns, where they rebuild pianos anyway I'm sure they could more finely regulate the piano of your choice. However, I would expect the older grand, if from the 1800's, to have a bit slower action than a later one.

RE tuning. One can tune a piano, it will meter out fine on a digital read out and still not quite be there. When you break down the unisons you then find a string here and there that are not quite in tune ( regardless of where you started in pitch, concert or otherwise). That's what I meant in my comment above, not so much if the piano is up to A440 standard or not but harmonizing well and tuned with perfect unisons. That will help bring out clarity, tone within a given voicing etc. Most likely if both pianos are rebuilt they have not had final massaging yet anyway. Again talk with the dealer about the piano of most interest to you.

Thanks, I will do

[trus]

As mentioned before, you should choose what -you- like. Spend a lot of time playing your favourite pieces on them and try to determine which touche and sound you like the most. Every pianist has his own preferences so there's not much point in saying what you should buy according to our own taste.

Didn't think I could call myself a pianist yet, ha ha. I have never had to buy/ choose myself a piano, an acoustic one, so it is kind of a new thing to me and I don't want to miss something I do not know .. whether it is about specific makes or ages of pianos.  I know deep inside which one I like most now, and talking to you all made me realize that... it is really all up to me! I thought it was useful checking on the makes too, I am only familiar with some German and Easter European pianos, no experience with old, English, etc pianos. Thanks a lot for all of your answers anyway.

[hfmadopter]

Well if you land a piano be sure to fill us in !

[trus]

Well if you land a piano be sure to fill us in !

Be sure I will!

[gyzzzmo]

Didn't think I could call myself a pianist yet, ha ha. I have never had to buy/ choose myself a piano, an acoustic one, so it is kind of a new thing to me and I don't want to miss something I do not know .. whether it is about specific makes or ages of pianos.  I know deep inside which one I like most now, and talking to you all made me realize that... it is really all up to me! I thought it was useful checking on the makes too, I am only familiar with some German and Easter European pianos, no experience with old, English, etc pianos. Thanks a lot for all of your answers anyway.

dont forget to check yamaha's